I think the nattie/clean trainer is more similar than different to the enhanced trainer.. Whe it comes down to it, its just that the journey to the same end result is a bit different.

Yes he did.  It's common knowledge that before implants he looked like the shadow and the end result was what we saw on the Olympia stage

Hey, ok I have had a shoulder problem for last 3 years when i initially injured it lifting too much and playing basketball(long story).  Anyways,  been to doctors, orthopedics etc... they won't do anything, x-rays say there is no problems, most likely weak tendons or damage to connective tissue...  Well I broke my hand and didn't do any shoulder lifting for over 3 months and miracously my shoulder seemed to repair itself, and I was having no problems for the last 5-6 months, but I was sick of lifting the same weights and decided I needed to start forging forward and I increased the weights I was lifting and then snap my shoulder went.  I normally 1 RM 400 on bench and the other day i tryed just using 50 pd dumbbells to warm up and the shoulder was so weak and in discomfort. 

MY question is, any suggestions on rehabing it faster than 4 months off?  Think I should just take 3 weeks off of just chest or all shoulder related lifts?  Or is it possible if the shoulder is up to it work it light? 
I'm doing rotator cup exercises eod and trying to strech it good.

Also,  what is your opinions on ever being able to lift heavy and get big?  If every time I try to increase my weight on bench or military press my shoulder goes out how am I supposed to get bigger and compete...  Is it a useless battle to try and fight this.?

That's what it was in my case. Here's the stretch that helped.

As a life-time drug free pro.....who has NEVER used....I debunk your assinine statement....

I'm with you guys. I'm currently waiting for my right trap/neck area to heal up. Over the course of this year, I've strained my left or right side twice each, and each time, I could not train for the life of me....sometimes I can't sleep. I came on here to see if you guys think deep tissue massage could help.

Ok, back on topic...I noticed yesterday (thanks to an observant female after I pointed out my injury) at the gym that my shoulder is.......lower....or more flat in the delt area than my other (especially my front).........wtf!!!!!  Im starting to think I tore my rotator cuff.   

40+-you cheeky bugger I'm 37 but look older due to the severe dieting-it makes you look a bit drawn-well that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it Last year was my first full year of competition so I guess I am a late starter but there are many good naturals in their 40s and even 50s.I think it is possible to keep improving as long as you live the lifestyle and keep it clean.

Ronnie has better genetics than flex because before flex touched drugs he was an extreme ectomorph.... Flex had awsome SHAPE and fullness on a tiny frame.. he was narrow compared to a thick dude like comier or coleman. Flex had awsome muscle shape but Ronnie and Comier have him beat in raw genetics. Now obviously flex had awsome genetics we are talking about out of the best grenetics on the planet comier and coleman have him beat.

i want to compete...but im going to wait untill i can do so at about 230 shredded...so im thinking about 30-35 lbs moremuscel.   so..like a year and a half.

   I'm not looking down on "nattys"...I'm just stating in my opinion based on all my expierences in this industry. "Nattys" tend to have a superior attitude and HAVE to jam down everyones throat that they are 'natural'. Like I would put a title in my name when I shake another fellow BB's hand..."Hey, My name is The BlockHead...Jakked/Stakked/Fully Loaded to the gills, nice to meet you..." At shows that arent tested do you see us walking around with hats and t-shirts saying 'On 1,200mgs a Week!' or buttons saying...' I (heart) 23gauges! ' Nope!

 of time there can be complications but thats with ANYTHING. Water can be bad for you, hell! I dont think AAS are 'Gods' answer to everything...let's keep God out of this. Since you bring it up...I do know steroids were created to BENEFIT mankind and serve a purpose. It is actual legitimate medicine. Do you drink? How many families and lives and careers and marriages destroyed from the 'pleasures' of alcohol? By the time I am done typing this...about 10 people in the U.S. died for reasons directly related to alcohol. It has a direct effect on your mind...it alters perception/judgement.

this thread is really stupid. there IS such a thing as a hardgainer. they can still gain but it is harder for them. if you only needed 1 gram of protein per body pound to build muscle then you're not a hardgainer and you're lucky. if you need 4500 calories to grow then you are a hardgainer even if when you get those calories you do grow. why? because it's HARD to eat 4500 calories. it's hard to have to rest more than others. so what is a hardgainer? when you were in high school and lifted weights and didn't know a damned thing about what you were doing but you grew and saw another kid who was like 110 pounds try the same thing and nothing happened for him... that's a hardgainer. the fact that he has to train differently and eat a lot more than you is what makes him a hardgainer. people who say there is no such thing as a hardgainer are saying there's no such thing as genetics which is stupid. maybe they're genetically mentally retarded.

I personally think that both slow reps and fast reps work, In a real sense you have to develop a feel or experience to arrive at a style that works for you. There is a ideal groove (combination of rep speed, range of motion, etc.) that every weight lifter will develop with experience over time. It takes time.

Two examples of diverse rep grooves are two of the best Mr. O's, Dorian's and Ronnie's styles. Yates generally used a full range of motion, and explosive raising phase, sometimes a pause and then a slow negative. Coleman, a rapid explosive, rythmic, partial rep style. Both methods produce results thats obvious.

The bottom line is that both methods work, both methods produces results, and both have their pros and cons. Obviously these methods have enough in common to produce outstanding results.

On a related note,
I personally train predominantly with partial, explosive reps with great overall effect in muscle and strength. I also make use of full range reps done slower when I feel the need. If I had to choose though I would pick explosive partials for more producing more overall result in mass and strength. I feel this way despite being a fan of Dorians style and being trained by him a few times.

Your right,
what ever you believe is always right.

Jennifer,


  FitChick makes a very serious and valid point. To compete at the highest levels and to place...people do what they have to do...even the figure/fitness girls.

   Most people and especially women tend to have a weird stance on steroids. I feel ya on your position but let me just ASSUME and be so bold for a minute...if you use birth-control pills then guess what...you are using STEROIDS!!! Birth-Control Pills(nuva-ring etc...) ARE in fact without a shadow of doubt STEROIDS. Synthetic hormones used for a psyiological purpose. One may be to 'trick' the body into believing it's already pregnant from estrodiol balance...the other 'tricks' the body to believe it should be more anabolic(in a muscle building state).

 Women are the biggest user of steroids in this country. Even teenage girls use STEROIDS for premiscious & recreational careless sex...why WOULDNT a highly competitive athlete competing at the highest level also use synthetic hormones to make them look better and recover from intense training more effectivley?

 Now I know you have super-genetics and you are very driven...but do you ever kick the idea around of doing something mild or over-the counter? I know DHEA would probably have mild effect on women and I know it's a staple with fitness/figure girls. Your thoughts?