Epic stupidity, slaveboy (sorry, man...), but what else can I say.

Respect is something younger dudes are in sorry supply of, but then that's
the sign of the (sorry) times. All this negative nonsense about Reeves is a
pathetic testament to the cop-out that (nearly) suggests ANY and ALL
bodybuilders of any consequence surely took drugs (steroids). It's actually
beyond pathetic.

Try and use philosophy as the Greeks initiated, with reason, logic, and
deduction.

Get the I-pods out of your sorry asses and get a life. Try and contribute
something to this world and humanity with decency and common sense.

Using your common sense and deduction is like saying an apple came from
an orange seed.

Slaveboy--or anyone else in that persuasion--with all the respect I can
muster: Shut your piehole and go devour a Hercules (Reeves) movie along
with some book on philosophy...I think they may have them at Borders with
the cartoon pop-ups in the children's section.

Not here to join in the debate but to make a quick comment.

I have made a special thread over at Ironage (last year now), showing
pictures and commentary of Steve Reeves' ranch (Valley Center, CA);
talked to his former significant other, ranch hands, and a few others
around the area he lived. I also did the same at IronHistory. It was done
as a tribute to the man, whom I met personally in 1980 in Long Beach, CA,
at the WABBA World (Serge Nubret's organization with Sergio Oliva winner).
I was editor of Muscle Digest. In my writings with Muscular Development
and Strength & Health (via John Grimek) over the years in the 70s, I also
met and conversed with numerous Reeves' friends and fellow trainees,
including George Eiferman and Jimmy Payne.

No matter what--or who--has ever suggested Reeves took steroids are
not dealing with a deck of reality cards. The facts, photos, and common
sense are overwhelmingly stacked against that possibility. It's utter nonsense
and not worthy of debate, in my humble opinion.

I do really appreciate what Made In Montana has written about Reeves,
especially the World War II stuff, which Stunt Movie also has in his briefcase
of info.

Several days ago here in San Diego I met this old buck who happened to
be the husband of Anita Robinson, if I'm not mistaken. I happened to observe
him having this old photo touched up of this beauty from the Muscle Beach
days. We talked and come to find out that Anita and Steve were good
friends, with Steve posing for many photos with her son. He told me that
Anita thought the world of Steve, that he was an incredibly nice guy, and
every one she knew felt the same. I asked him about the possibility of
drugs, just like I have done with everyone I ever met who knew Steve. He
laughed loudly: "Are you kidding...he was a health nut...besides, the guy
didn't need stuff like that, he was already above everyone."

This old-timer promised I could speak to Anita about Steve and even get
a copy of this photo (maybe more) of Steve holding her son as a young
boy as soon as she recovers from an illness.

From the whatever-it-is-worth department.

Stunt, I'm going to check with Joe Roark on that; his arsenal of info is mind-
boggling. I doubt that he would know what WE are seeking, but he would know of a close, informed contact that may be able to shed some light on the issue.

Your reflections on medals is precise and spot perfect. I did know a few Marines in the Marine Barracks where I was stationed following Nam, that wore a few medals that weren't earned...and frankly it turned my guts. Since I was in a leadership billet I reported them--in a tactful way, really--to our CO, a crusty
tank commander who looked remarkably like John Wayne, but more muscular,
standing 6'4" and weighing probably 225, solid Marine Steel. He had long scars
going down his face and on his forehead. He too was appalled. This one joker
wore all the Nam ribbons and had never even gone yet. Made me sick.

The awards thing is another matter. I do believe--as a former newspaper
journalist myself--that reporters make stupid errors, especially regarding the
military or war, and then it goes to the editor who rapes it some more. The
only place I've seen reports about Reeves' medals were in magazines. And
we know how inaccurate they can be. But Reeves was extremely humble about
his record and seldom if ever mentioned it. When I met George Eiferman, Steve's
close friend for many, many years, he told me about Steve's war record, but I
can't recall the exact facts, except he won--was awarded--citations, unit
for sure, and perhaps a few individual ones. I do have some older publications about Reeves and will attempt to look up some facts, if they can be counted
on.

But you are absolutely right my friend about unit and individual citations. And
it's a point few understand, even fewer outside the military. Personally, I have too much profound respect for my brothers-in-arms who were seriously wounded or died, to ever even flirt with wearing anything I didn't totally deserve, because I have my life and limbs and they don't.

Nothing against the other services mind you, but it's the generally accepted fact that medals given to Marines are far more scrutinized and earned than
elsewhere...at least in the "old" Corps. But then, I'm slightly biased; sorry.

Semper Fi.

And regards and respects to all--ALL--Servicemembers. SALUTE!

Steve Reeves may or may not have been a (genuine) war hero, per se, a term misused today in a very devaluing way by the press and uninformed people, but by virtue of his service during war, his participation in it, his contraction of Malaria, his involvement in known campaigns, his hospitalization, etc., etc., he deserves recognition and our adulation. Reeves did not skirt his country and responsibility. He faced it head-on and was among a relative elite few who accomplished great things in Bodybuilding and Hollywood but humbly also served his country, but never complained. So, in the sense of integrity, honor and character, he was indeed a "hero" of a man.

Thanks BEAST and PUMPSTER, great handles, both.

What the heck, slaveboy is probably a slave in his own mind, but he's
entertaining, like some reality show. They make it look real, but it's anything
but.

But...it's real to the slaver and HIS reality...and those who wanna believe.

Actually, the medal honors are beyond me at the moment; I believe he rec'd
two though, above and beyond the normal ones any war participant receives.

I'm one of these old-fashioned hardasses that believes medals should be given
for honors earned; I've known servicemen who would deny their purple heart
because they felt it wasn't earned, compared to the guy who got wounded,
hardcore. And I've known those who would take a purple heart (like John
Kerry Heinz) who received a wittle bump on the shin.

Dan Would-Rather-Not, the long-standing news anchor, claimed he was a
Marine for years. Then, he was exposed in Valor book, saying he was ousted
before he graduated boot camp. He never actually earned the right to even be
called a Marine, let alone be one!!

I bet Stuntmovie (Semper Fi!) would have some thoughts...

Yea, doison...bomber, fly high, hanger, etc., etc., just puttin' a
little extra "flight" on the words and meanings...maybe they'll go
a little further?

Actually, Dave himself uses Fly High and other skyward terms and
prose in his weekly newsletter.

By the way, Dave is progressing quite well...even without his heavy
favorites of milk and meat.

Bomb's away!!

Thanks Montana for those insights, thoughts and Reeves reflections.

He was in fact a WW II hero not because he served in that war, but because
he was decorated by his superiors and the United States Government for
heroism beyond the call of duty. And was thusly awarded a medal (s) for his
actions. He also returned from combat with Malaria (which I contracted, too,
believe me, it's not fun...).

Reeves will undoubtedly be remembered as the best built man, bodybuilder
ever...not by the monster equation and drug culture...but by the rank and file
of iron gamers around the world...and Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Public.

He'll be remembered for many other reasons as well, but suffice to say, for
the purpose of Get Big and the bodybuilding community, being the best built
and perhaps most-gifted genetic, natural man/bodybuilder, will have to do.

All these other arguments and points--for lack of a better term--don't even
rise to the level of a low tide on a cloudy day.

No one here--or anywhere--needs really to defend Mr. Reeves. His life and
persona stands high on its own. But we just try to shed a little light on his
behalf...out of respect and human dignity.

They say jealousy is often the greatest form of flattery. For a lack of getting
respect any other way from some people, I guess we'll just have to
settle for that.

Semper Fi, Stunt. Did you read those previous posts and mine
about dropping by the Dave Draper post and lend your prose,
if you have any.

Regarding the Raders'. If you go to Joe Roark's site...IRONHISTORY
you can read a personalized account of the couple, as seen through
my eyes and my attempt to try and purchase IronMan in 1984, via
a trip down to their headquarters in Alliance, NE...It's under the
bodybuilding section, titled: "My Bid (quest) for IronMan."

There's also many other interesting tidbits on Joe's great site about
the Raders' and IronMan.

Through a collective THANK YOU to all his online newsletter subscribers,
and ALL those people who have sent him their well wishes, Dave's thanks
reflects his appreciation for all the outpouring of concern.

Just thought I'd pass that along to all GetBiggers who may not subscribe
to the newsletter (www.DaveDraper.com) or have the chance to see that
in a timely fashion.

For those that don't know, Dave's an incredible writer and will no doubt share
much of his thoughts and reflections of his heart ordeal with us. And no doubt
it will be delivered first-class with lighthearted prose and plenty of verve. But,
he does say that he won't beat the (obvious) drum too much.

Easy.

Act like a man, not a moron!

Pardon me?

Yea, c'mon, SB, don't be a slave to your (possible)
drug-induced imagination.

Can't you just leave it be? I guess there's always a
possibility of anything, isn't there? But with Reeves,
I'd give the odds at 99 to 1 that he never touched
them. The guy was such a health fanatic he wouldn't
even take cold medicine.

He showed no signs, ever! He didn't need it for (his)
times. So, what would have been his incentive?

The "Shape" as he was known,certainly didn't need them.

If A then B equals C rings true in basic philosophy, then
reason and logic and deduction proves your statement
to be absurd. And that's being nice SB, showing you some
respect.

Now, please show some respect for the deceased Mr.
Reeves, a deserved (natural) bodybuilding and movie epic
hero and icon, well deserved.

Also, a real-life hero in World War II. The guy was a man
to be admired, in many ways.

________________________ _______________________

Stunt, nice to see your name and posts. If possible, can you
drop by my Dave Draper thread and lend a memory or two,
or some thoughts? Appreciate it. Semper Fi, Marine

Excellent, Stunt, couldn't have said it better myself.

I worked with Joe Valdez fairly often on photo projects when at Muscle
Digest and he was such the gentleman; very unassuming.

The one thing that I have to say we didn't see eye to eye on, and actually
had a friendly little debate over it, was his constant pushing and public
relations push for Rory L.

But yes, that working book title sounds dynamite. And I'm sure Joe would
have had a success on his plate with that, for sure.

For years now, I've been trying to get famous natural trainer Jack O'Blenness,
to pen his memoirs. Or, even a training, industry book. He's now pushing 80!
And can hardly walk. Boy, does he have some stories about the politics of
bodybuilding.

Update:

Dave's online newsletter is hot off the internet press!

The Bomber's in great form as he describes his surgery, condition and
recovery, including rehap he's undergoing now, i.e., special
breathing exercises to enhance lung capacity, etc.

His prose is Draper-quick, sharp and with good-natured (and thankful)
tone. Here's a little sample, ending his description of his overall ordeal:

                    "I'm captain of this shipwreck"

Don't miss any of this Bomber's recovering flight. Go to www.DaveDraper.com

News Release:

Dave's weekly online newsletter has just been released and
it's worthy of your visit, as it relates the Bomber's inside thoughts
and feelings about the operation and subsequent rehap, including
doing his...special breathing exercises to restore lung capacity.

Also, the Bomber explains his ordeal and condition in vivid terms and 
reflective good spirits, ending one descriptive paragraph by writing:

                 "I'm captain of this shipwreck"

His honesty and lighthearted approach is refreshing...and revealing.

Visit the Bomber at www.DaveDraper.com

Dave felt good enough to pound out his first online newsletter
yesterday since the surgery. It was informative and recited
facts and thoughts about the surgery and hospital stay.

While recovering nicely he is still far from the Bomber of old...
but he's trying to fly higher and higher continually.

Eventually, he'll be flying high again, soaring with the iron
eagles.

For more check www.DaveDraper.com.

Dave's first online newsletter came out yesterday.

It was fairly thorough, covering the surgery and hospital stay.

But, let there be no mistake. This was a major surgery and it will
take some time before the Bomber is totally flying at his highest.

But he's hovering in mid-range and apparently doing well.

Again, Dave's online newsletter is available at www.DaveDraper.com.

Dave's feeling good enough where he's even posting his prose
on Draper.com.

His first words were conveyed over the weekend in brief but
thoughtful message. He assured everyone that all went well.
He stated he missed everyone but not the weights (they're
for healthier people...).

Dave's own final thought:
     "One last thing: I'll be better than ever before ya know it."

Dave is feeling good enough to post his first words since
his surgery on Draper.com.

Earlier today Dave posted a brief message assuring everyone that
everything went well. He said he missed everyone (probably a sigh
of being alive) but didn't miss working out.

His own final works on the post.

"One last thing: I'll be better than ever before ya know it."

Laree (his wife) had reported just previously that Dave would be
posting his first words on his usual Wednesday online newsletter.

But he beat her words to the punch.

Just like he'll beat this heart challenge. This is one Bomber you won't be
seeing lingering in the hanger too long.

Like Dave said, "Fly High."

The Bomber has touched down at the home hanger.

Early eve, Thursday, March 1st, Dave returned to home,
amidst perfect, sunny, blue skies in northern Cal.

All is well, according to Laree, Dave's wife.

The Bomber has finally landed.

After exactly one week, Dave touched down at his home hanger early eve,
Thursday, March 1st.

He is home and all looks well, according to his dedicated wife, Laree.

A collective Cheer!

Yea, Luol, and it's that full recovery that is going to keep Dave
there in the hospital another day or two. So, he'll return home
Wednesday or Thursday now.

His stay there has drawn a lot of interest as the doctors and nurses
have bombarded Draper with questions about fitness and even how to
lose their pot bellies. But, he's strong and doing well.

We'll keep the candles lit and burning.

Thanks, Shawn.

Latest news is Dave's coming home either Wednesday or Thursday.
Seems the doctor wants to keep him over a bit more to insure all
is 100% A-okay.

And you can bet the nurses and doctors are loving Dave's stay cause
they're asking him questions about getting in shape, losing their guts,
and the whole nine yards.

The activity around the Draper room is full-bore, but before he goes
home they want to be double sure of his recovery, hence the extra
precaution.

If his popularity is any indication, they'll all miss him there in the Bomber
Bed.

The recovery process is going much quicker than expected, according to
the doctors.

Dave is up, sitting, and moving like a cat (w/anticipated walking).

It's still a lengthy, cautious process and one not to take lightly.

Let's hope Dave doesn't overdue and keeps his workouts in his mind.

Watch, because of so much training--overtraining, in a sense--for so
many years, I wouldn't doubt that Dave experience a new level of
gains after he gets back into the swing of things; but probably more on the
cardio (health) and definition (endurance) sides.

Thanks, thisguy.

The update from Laree Draper, Dave's wife, this morning (Saturday) is
extremely positive.

So much so that they just about have to keep the big guy down as he
wants to...move around and get going.

He's breathin' in that air and it's gotta put some new spring in his step.

Welcome back, Dave.

Dave's wife, Laree, has just posted that Dave is awake and aware,
and even uP!

He's anxious to get on with things in true Bomber style.

Looks like he'll be back in short order.