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35526  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Romney tries to win over Florida on: February 18, 2007, 11:47:08 AM
If he can paint the consistent pictures from the LDS pr campaign he'll be fine.
If conservatives started delving into Mormon rites and belief systems, he'll need no less than a publicly televised Evangelical Christian exorcism to get their votes.

I don't know.  I think Mormons are okay.  They have some beliefs and practices that are . . . different, but also some that are very consistent with mainstream Christianity. 
35527  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Giuliani: Both for and against abortion on: February 18, 2007, 11:45:06 AM
That's why we have separation of Church and State. It's mainly a "religious" POV that life begins at conception.

But even if you argue that's not true... God clearly saw nothing wrong with abortion or he would have said so, so who are you to argue?

After consideration and judgement, we routinely snuff out people at public executions. If life is precious from conception to birth, doesn't it follow that life should continue to be precious?  If not, and clearly it seems it isn't, it would follow that life isn't particularly extra precious while in the womb, and women, after consideration and judgement, should be able to terminate a "life" that expressly belongs to her and is her possession.

Feel free to choose any answer you like... from a woman whose opinion is shared by millions worldwide.

Deedee I'm not arguing one side or the other.  My point, which I obviously didn't express very well, is that both sides put blinders on when it comes to framing the issue.  Pro life advocates ignore the woman's bodily integrity issue.  Pro choice advocates ignore and in some respects dehumanize the unborn child (which they call a "fetus" only when discussing abortion). 

And this doesn't have to be a debate over whether life begins at conception.  What about second trimester abortions, where there is no question we are dealing with a fully formed and some cases viable baby.  What about third trimester abortions, where we're often dealing with a viable baby?  That isn't a religious issue at all.  But even if it is, so what?  People with religious views have just as much right to have their voices heard as non-religious people.

I don't see this as a church-state separation issue at all.  I believe very strongly in church-state separation.  What I don't believe in is muzzling anyone who has a viewpoint that is either expressly or implicitly "religious" in nature. 
35528  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Obama: U.S. Ready for Black President on: February 18, 2007, 11:32:12 AM
you are a racist.  you disgust me.

LOL.   Grin

 Roll Eyes

P.S.  I think the answer to both questions might be either "never" or "not any time in the past decade." 
35529  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Romney tries to win over Florida on: February 18, 2007, 11:30:28 AM
Romney charmed many seniors with his energetic speaking style, professed love for his ''sweetheart'' wife of 37 years, and conservative philosophy touting smaller government. He showed poise when a heckler attacked him for being a Mormon: ``You sir, you are a pretender. You do not know the Lord.''

The audience booed the heckler.

''One of the great things about this land is that we have people of different faiths and different religions, but we need to have a person of faith lead the country,'' he said, as the audience gave him a standing ovation.

The incident reinforced the hurdle a little-known candidate from a little-understood religious background faces in winning over the Christian conservatives who can sway GOP primaries.

This is the part I found most interesting.  I'm not sure how conservatives will view the fact he is a Mormon.  
35530  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Obama: U.S. Ready for Black President on: February 18, 2007, 11:28:20 AM
I take that as you admit you're a racist who makes slurs here that would get your lip split in real life.

Toss in the fact that you voted Clinton twice and you endorse letting thousands of iraqi refugees live here...

You bring shame to this nation, Beach Bum.

When was the last time you were in "a room full of African Americans"? 

Actually, a better question is when was the last time you were in a room full of Halfrican Americans?  Inquiring minds want to know . . . .
35531  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Terror Suspect Ordered Released on: February 18, 2007, 11:26:13 AM
The guy has been incarcerated since 2000, at least a year before 9/11 and has been held without charges.
I say either arrest the guy, charge him with a crime and try him in court, or deport his ass if there is reason for that, but to deprive him of his freedom, family, in the absense of a crime?

Apparently there are 3 elected MPs willing to act as a reference for him. His case has become a cause célèbre here, because it illustrates there are 2 systems of justice here, one for Canadians, and another for immigrants.

Citizenship is irrelevant for all intents & purposes. It didn't do much for Arar.

btw - his release is symbolic. he's under house arrest. At least his family will have him back home.
If you ever saw his little boy begging to know when his Daddy will be coming home, it would break your heart.

Is he a citizen? 

BTW, I don't know why they held him for seven years without charges, but it does sound Kafkaesque.
35532  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Obama: U.S. Ready for Black President on: February 18, 2007, 11:22:44 AM
you're a fking disrespectful racist.

I'm betting if you were standing in a room full of African Americans you wouldn't have the balls to make such statements.

I'll take that as a "no." 
35533  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Giuliani: Both for and against abortion on: February 18, 2007, 11:21:56 AM
From the point of view of those who have grown up under more "socialist" types of government/societies, the idea that people should enjoy the inalienable right to freedom of speech, up to, and including the right to level abuse at various minority groups, and yet on the other hand, find nothing wrong at all with denying a woman the right to choose what she does with her own body, is kind of laughable. Sorry.

One of the problems is the woman's body isn't the only issue.  It's really about the woman's right to choose whether or not to kill her baby.  There are legitimate bodily integrity issues regarding the woman and legitimate issues regarding the unborn child. 

And one of the things that really complicates this is you have a bunch of men making these decisions. 
35534  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: Celebrity Couple Abstained From Sex Before Marriage on: February 18, 2007, 11:18:31 AM
Following this logic, wouldn't the creator want to encourage procreation, rather than restrict it?  And in the 21st century, where overpopulation is a serious issue, is this point of view still valid?

He does encourage it, but there are rules.  The entire universe, the planet, our environment, our communities, our bodies, etc. are all about rules and order.  God and the Bible are no different.  Sex was a gift to Adam and Eve and it is a gift to married couples today.  The only restrictions are you find a spouse, the two of you become "one flesh," you have as much sex as you want, and you make as many babies as you can afford (hopefully).  The only restriction is you limit your sex to your spouse.  That doesn't restrict procreation at all.

So, yes the point of view is still valid IMO. 

I think this point of view offends many people today, because our society has become an “anything goes” society in many respects.  People are offended by the notion of rules and order when it comes to sex. 
35535  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Romney tries to win over Florida on: February 18, 2007, 11:09:41 AM
Posted on Sat, Feb. 17, 2007
Romney tries to win over Florida
BY BETH REINHARD
breinhard@MiamiHerald.com
LADY LAKE - He's been the most aggressive presidential candidate in Florida so far, and he's got to be.

Three out of four voters don't know Mitt Romney, and only 6 percent favor him over better-known rivals like John McCain and Rudy Giuliani, according to a recent Quinnipiac University poll.

But by racing to be the first presidential candidate of either party to make a public splash in Florida, Romney sent a message to the nation's largest battleground state.

''It's hard to imagine a Republican being president without carrying Florida,'' he told reporters Friday night after addressing a standing-room-only crowd at The Villages, a sprawling retirement community in central Florida.

Romney charmed many seniors with his energetic speaking style, professed love for his ''sweetheart'' wife of 37 years, and conservative philosophy touting smaller government. He showed poise when a heckler attacked him for being a Mormon: ``You sir, you are a pretender. You do not know the Lord.''

The audience booed the heckler.

''One of the great things about this land is that we have people of different faiths and different religions, but we need to have a person of faith lead the country,'' he said, as the audience gave him a standing ovation.

The incident reinforced the hurdle a little-known candidate from a little-understood religious background faces in winning over the Christian conservatives who can sway GOP primaries. Romney, McCain and Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas were slated to attend an Orlando convention of the National Religious Broadcasters this weekend. McCain will also make a public appearance at a Vero Beach church tomorrow.

. . .

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/nation/16724016.htm
35536  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Giuliani: Both for and against abortion on: February 18, 2007, 11:08:12 AM


Yeah....  but those people are idiots.  Undecided

Debatable, but there are millions of these "idiots," which is why this issue will always at the forefront of the political discourse.  (I don't believe they're idiots BTW.) 
35537  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Senate won't vote on objection to troop buildup on: February 18, 2007, 11:06:40 AM

What a fucking sham this has become.  I'm ashamed that nincompoops like him, and you, have infiltrated my great republican party.  While you were giggling at Bush1 and putting Clinton signs in your yard, I was running school debates in support of Bush 1.  Today, you try to hijack MY party with this BS?

Nope.  Get your 7000 iraqi refugees, your warmongering and your civil rights violations, and get the fck out of my republican party beach bum.

hope this "heps".

Quote
Quote
December 16, 2006, 10:59:08 PM » Quote by 240: 

I'm a libertarian. 

 
 
 
35538  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail? on: February 18, 2007, 11:05:23 AM
Some people, including me, feel that hate crimes are crimes of terrorism and therefore different than regular crimes, since a whole group of people are "assaulted" instead of an individual.

Let's say I am one of ten women living in a village of men who don't want us there, because their religious beliefs hold that we as a group are an abomination and should be expelled, executed, etc... if they murder one of the women to "send a message" wouldn't I be affected, i.e. frightened, intimidated, silenced? Wouldn't that encourage me to get out of dodge to avoid the same fate? I think that's the basic difference.

When a government institutes hate crime laws, it validates the precept that no group should be marginalized... but rather included and protected under its laws.

Deedee if the woman in the group was murdered, the person who committed the crime would face the maximum punishment under the law:  either life in prison or death (depending on the state they're in).  And if the person committed the crime in Texas, he would actually be executed (if he committed the crime in California he's spend at least twenty years on death row).  This is why hate crimes legislation doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  We cannot execute the person twice.  We don't need an enhancement to punish someone when there are laws on the books to deal with these crimes already.

I think these thought crime laws are designed to appease a small but vocal segment of our society.   
35539  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Speaking of Democrats and the Iraq war......their own words. on: February 18, 2007, 11:00:32 AM
not going to debate your spin on the intell, that will just end up with name calling.
so, can you explain the info below before bush took office??
(i re-posted for your convenience)



Quote:
October 9th, 1999 Letter to President Clinton Signed by Senators Levin, Lieberman, Lautenberg, Dodd, Kerrey, Feinstein, Mikulski, Daschle, Breaux, Johnson, Inouye, Landrieu, Ford and Kerry — all Democrats
“We urge you, after consulting with Congress and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions, including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.”
Bill Clinton > February 17, 1998
“If Saddam rejects peace, and we have to use force, our purpose is clear: We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
Madeleine Albright > February 1, 1998
“We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and the security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.”
Nancy Pelosi > December 16, 1998
“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
Sandy Berger > February 18, 1998
“He’ll use those weapons of mass destruction again as he has 10 times since 1983.”
Madeleine Albright > November 10, 1999
“Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
Dick Durbin > September 30, 1999
“One of the most compelling threats we in this country face today is the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Threat assessments regularly warn us of the possibility that North Korea, Iran, Iraq, or some other nation may acquire or develop nuclear weapons.”
Quote:
Bill Clinton > December 17, 1998
“Earlier today, I ordered America’s armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq…. Their mission is to attack Iraq’s nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.”
Bill Clinton > February 17, 1998
“We have to defend our future from these predators of the 21st Century…. They will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen. There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein.”
Tom Daschle > February 11, 1998
“The (Clinton) administration has said, ‘Look, we have exhausted virtually our diplomatic effort to get the Iraqis to comply with their own agreements and with international law. Given that, what other option is there but to force them to do so?’ That’s what they’re saying. This is the key question. And the answer is we don’t have another option. We have got to force them to comply, and we are doing so militarily.”
Bill Richardson > May 29, 1998
“The threat of nuclear proliferation is one of the big challenges that we have now, especially by states that have nuclear weapons, outlaw states like Iraq.”
John Kerry > February 23, 1998
“Saddam Hussein has already used these weapons and has made it clear that he has the intent to continue to try, by virtue of his duplicity and secrecy, to continue to do so. That is a threat to the stability of the Middle East. It is a threat with respect to the potential of terrorist activities on a global basis. It is a threat even to regions near but not exactly in the Middle East.”
Al Gore > December 16, 1998
“f you allow someone like Saddam Hussein to get nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, chemical weapons, biological weapons, how many people is he going to kill with such weapons? He has already demonstrated a willingness to use such weapons…”
 

I'd post the picture if I knew how.   Smiley

**coqui frogs**
35540  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Obama: U.S. Ready for Black President on: February 18, 2007, 10:59:23 AM
I'm old school - he got black skin, so he (be) Black.

Seriously, though, my problem with Obama is that he's too green and his timing is bad.  When Clinton got himself elected on that tragic day back in 1992, as an unknown, his timing was perfect.  He wasn't well-positioned for national politics, but the window was wide open for a newcomer who happened to be both White and Southern. 

Obama is currently the 'hey, look at me - I've got some ideas!' guy.  But there isn't enough of a track record to conclude that this man is 'presidential' enough to lead this nation. 

So, I'm not telling Obama not to run because he's Black.  I'm asking him not to run because he really is not electable at this time.  He should spend time speaking and writing and let his words and Senate voting record build for him a resumé that he can use for a possible White House run in the future.

Oh, and he should change his first name, too.   Wink

 

Tre his timing is actually very good.  He is still a rock star.  The race is wide open (although I think the Democrat nod is Hillary's to lose).  The Republican party does not have an unbeatable candidate.  There is no incumbent.  I completely understand why he's running now. 
35541  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Obama: U.S. Ready for Black President on: February 18, 2007, 10:56:34 AM
It's brought up twice a day BY YOU, behavior similar to that of a closet racist.

"It shouldn't matter"?  No shit, sherlock.  But you start two debates a day on it.

And you need to stop using that derogatory descriptor.

Seriously, do you start conversations about peoples' race every day in public?  Cause in real life, you'd get your lip split, or youd' be socially shunned for doing something so unprofessional and obnoxious.  As a college professor (haha) you'd know that.

I guess since you cannot bash obama for his positions on topics, you can bring up his skin color constantly.  It's people like you that perpetuate these divisions in society.

Does this mean you will not vote for a Halfrican American for president? 
35542  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Schwarzenegger: Will Veto Gay Marriage Again on: February 18, 2007, 10:55:12 AM
Marriage is stupid anyway.

Most of America doesn't give a shit about marriage.  Why gays care so much, I don't know.  They should be happy just doing their own thing, since they're the wealthiest demographic anyway.  Don't futz with something that's already working.



Marriage is the highlight of many peoples lives.  Next to buying a home, it is one of the most expensive events in many people lives.  And most of America cares a great deal about traditional marriage, which is why we have the Defense of Marriage Act (passed under a Democrat president) and why homosexual marriage is rejected, usually by a wide margin, every time it comes up for a vote.   
35543  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Repub Romney explains '92 vote for Democrat Tsongas on: February 18, 2007, 10:52:21 AM
Christie Todd Whitman is my girl.  If she were to make a bid for the Presidency, she'd have my full support.


She has fallen off the map.  What happened to her? 
35544  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Repub Romney explains '92 vote for Democrat Tsongas on: February 18, 2007, 10:50:01 AM
Wow.

 Roll Eyes
35545  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Terror Suspect Ordered Released on: February 18, 2007, 10:49:12 AM
Terror Suspect Ordered Released
It wasn't long ago that Mohamed Zeki Mahjoub -- a fundamentalist who admits he ran a farming operation in the early 1990s for Osama bin Laden in Sudan - was viewed as anything but a cause célèbre in this country.



This would worry me if I lived in Canada.  Is he a Canadian citizen? 
35546  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Giuliani: Both for and against abortion on: February 17, 2007, 10:38:42 PM

Although I am a registered republican, I come down squarely on the pro-choice side if asked my opinion.  However, it's really a "who cares" issue at this point.  I'm too old (37) for it to effect me directly,  and if we ever have a daughter and she needs an abortion, we're rich enough to take her wherever it's legal to have it done (Mass? Cali?).  So who cares? I have bigger issues to worry about.

Lots of people care.  I see this like I do a number of issues that don't personally affect me, like the death penalty, gun control, minimum wage, prayer in public schools (my kids go to private school), etc.  None of these issues will likely ever affect me, but they take up a disproportionate part of the political debate.

On the other hand, those who believe life begins at conception and that abortion is murder see this as a hugely important issue.   

I'd love to see the national discussion start with taxes, which is the most important issue to me (well, probably equally as important are crime and defense).  As good as my accountant is, the government still takes way too much of my money.   Angry  Bring back Malcolm Forbes!   Smiley
35547  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Speaking of Democrats and the Iraq war......their own words. on: February 17, 2007, 10:08:15 PM
cute

LOL!   Grin
35548  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: Celebrity Couple Abstained From Sex Before Marriage on: February 17, 2007, 10:07:12 PM

Can you step away from the bible a second and look at it objectively.....  does it make any sense that the infinite omnipotent force behind the entire universe would be concerned by something as base and trivial as human sexuality?


Or does it make more sense that a human-authored book contains basic human prejudices?


I don't expect an answer....  just something for you to consider.

To answer your rhetorical question  Smiley, I say "of course."  Human sexuality makes the world go round.  It is what keeps humans from becoming extinct.  I don't see any reason why an omnipotent one wouldn't be concerned about the one thing that keeps humans alive from generation to generation. 
35549  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Giuliani: Both for and against abortion on: February 17, 2007, 10:02:26 PM

I agree with Barbara Bush on this.  And you're not telling me anything I don't already know; just because it's current political reality doesn't mean I have to like it. It may be beating my head against the wall, but... most of the readers of this forum tend to be young.... tomorrow's leaders... maybe by consistently pointing out problems with the status quo I can influence a few of them to think with their heads rather than blindly doing what the media tells them to.  Undecided

I don't think this issue ever goes away.  I don't remember what the statistics show, but I would imagine the majority of the millions of abortions performed each year are on "young" women?   

We are a hair away from Roe v. Wade being overturned.  One vote.  Imagine the turmoil if and when that happens.  Dueling constitutional amendments are sure to follow.  And whatever happens (whether it is legal or illegal), about half the voting public will be angry.

If a Republican wins the White House in 08, there will be a firestorm over the replacement of Stevens and/or Ginsberg (the two liberals most likely to retire--or die).   
     
35550  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: Celebrity Couple Abstained From Sex Before Marriage on: February 17, 2007, 09:35:00 PM
Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

A few random thoughts:



If you want to abstain from sex before marriage, fine, that's your choice and your business. Why do you feel the need to publicize it and share it with the world?  The unspoken message in you doing so is you think everyone should be doing it.  I respectfully disagree.  You are entitled to your choices, others are entitled to theirs.


"God" is mentioned.  Whetever your belief is regarding a supreme being, do you really think if one exists it would be concerned with trivial matters such as when two humans on planet earth are screwing each other or not??  Seems to cheapen the whole idea of a "supreme being" in my view.  Somehow I just cant see the infinite greatly concerned with who's fuccking who, like some lady gossiping arounf te\h water cooler.  Roll Eyes

If you are a Christian and accept the Bible as truth, the answer is "yes."  The Bible talks about things like adultery and homosexual sex, which are all about two humans on planet earth screwing each other.  Anyone who does not believe this applies to their lives may find it offensive when people publicly talk about God and His impact on their lives.  Personally, I have no trouble at all with a couple talking about how God influences their marriage, including their sex life.  I think it's great that this particular couple has survived where so many celebrity marriages have failed.  And as a Christian I like the fact they give credit where credit is due:   

The couple says their marriage is strong because they keep "God in the middle." Angela even had "GOD" inscribed on her wedding band between her and Courtney's initials. "I can only rely on his strength," Angela says. "I'll attempt to see [Courtney] even in those moments that aren't perfect, perhaps in a small way, the way God sees him."
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