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26  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: "A bodybuilding workout is not an endurance contest." on: November 28, 2013, 01:10:05 AM
There was a time in the 60's and 70's when bodybuilders and powerlifters were athletes. As mentioned Franco and Lou competed in WSM. Kaz was setting records in  powerlifting before he dominated WSM. These guys TRAINED rather than just letting the drugs do the work.  Before the monolifts, the bench shirts, and squat suits, they trained to be strong all over because it was just you and the weight. And their physiques reflected that.

It's just sad what has happened to BBing  and PLing over the decades.

Today there are running backs in the NFL under 6ft weighing 225lbs with 40" vertical jumps, low 4's in the 40, benching four plates and squatting 600lbs. I doubt that if they were to do a 5 mile run anyone would be impressed with their times. Yet very few would question their status as world class athletes.
27  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: Thoughts on the sets across method on: November 26, 2013, 06:02:59 PM
One of the best most thought provoking things I have read on this board. Thanks Yev33. "Psychologically it's much easier to feel the benefit of a set taken to complete failure, you have given it all you got and took your ability to it's current limit. But your muscles respond to mechanical work load not your need for self assurance on a job well done."

Thank you
28  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: Thoughts on the sets across method on: November 26, 2013, 12:55:16 PM
Eddie Robinson the bodybuilder and powerlifter use to increase his weight each set but maintain the same amount of reps. He said in effect the lighter weight sets were just done with perfect form.  Almost the whole world when they up the weight from set to set goes down in reps. Something like 12-10-8-6 is common. Eddie Robinson was the first time I heard someone workout increasing the weight each set but trying to maintain the same reps.


I had some experience with traditional pyramid sets (thanks Arnold encyclopedia) and I did not make very much progress. I would push each set to failure or close to it. When I switched to pyramiding up in a rep range I started to understand the importance of sub-maximal effort sets. They build volume without burning out your CNS. On top of all this there was now variation that could be employed, I had a choice of multiple rep ranges that I could use, instead of doing roughly the same traditional pyramid all the time.
29  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: "A bodybuilding workout is not an endurance contest." on: November 25, 2013, 07:58:41 PM
Volume and endurance are relative terms. An olympic sprinter can maintain max speed for about 40 meters, this would in a way make the 100m sprint an endurance race to some degree. A 10 rep set to failure requires more endurance than a 1 rep max which would make the 10 rep set a test of endurance.  

Volume can go from zero to infinte, the terms low volume and high volume are very vague. One set per bodypart is low volume compared to 5 sets per bodypart. And 5 sets per bodypart is low volume compared to 20 sets per bodypart.

What is the point in all this? This stuff is not as simple and black and white as the HIT theories make it out to be.

A much more logical way to approach this is to acknowledge that there is a volume range that is the most effective for building muscle.

Psychologically it's much easier to feel the benefit of a set taken to complete failure, you have given it all you got and took your ability to it's current limit. But your muscles respond to mechanical work load not your need for self assurance on a job well done.

Talk to anyone that has worked physically demanding jobs and they will tell you that the first several weeks were rough but then got easier as their body adapted to the stress. These people aren't doing tasks to failure but it's the cumulative mechanical toll that they are exposed to.

The HIT theory is way too basic to explain how the human body reacts to stress and adapts, which is exactly why it ends up with training once every 2-3 weeks.
30  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: Thoughts on the sets across method on: November 22, 2013, 07:12:48 PM
So I have been doing this for the last couple of months and here is what I have found.

The sets across method works great for any exercise as long as it's not the first one. For the first exercise I have found that there is no better way than pyramiding up in weight within a given rep range. I know that the traditional way of pyramiding up is lowering the reps while increasing the weight (15,12,10,8,5 for example) what I am talking about is picking a rep range like 8-12 reps and staying in it as you increase the weights from set to set. The reason I think this works better is because it really prepares your body for the heavier sets. It ends up serving as a warm up for your muscles as well as the nervous system. Plus there is still a good amount of volume there as you work up.

Now getting back to the sets across method. I have found it to work great for any lift. Barbell, dumbbell, dips, and chin ups, it doesn't matter. The overall volume is pretty high when you consider the total tonnage (sets x reps x weight ). I like to use either 4x8 or 3x12 as my set/rep scheme. For example if I am using 4x8, I will pick a weight that I can get for 8 reps without going to failure on the first set. When I can get 8 reps on all four sets then I increase the weight. This makes it much easier to select an appropriate weight as well as leaving a lot of room for progression (first workout you might do 8,6,5,5). It is much easier to gauge what weight you can comfortably do for 8 reps on the first set rather than trying to pick a weight that you can do for all  four sets of 8 reps.

I think that combining the two methods (pyramiding and sets across) works better than just using one or the other. Another thing I like to do is limiting all of the lifting aids (weight belt, straps, wraps etc.) to only the first exercise. Here is what my last workout looked like:

Deadlifts: 6x4-6 pyramid
135x5 (warm up)
205x6
245x6
285x6
325x6
365x6
405x4

DB shoulder press: 4x8
35's x 10 (warm up)
50's x 6 (warm up)
60's x 8,8,7,7

Neutral grip pull ups: 3x12
BW x 12,6,6

Incline crunches:
3 sets with a 10lb plate behind my head.
31  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: how tightend down should a valvecover/gasket seal should be on a pathfinder? on: November 19, 2013, 09:59:01 AM
Prefferably you want an exact spec. But for a valve cover gasket you shoud be fine with 100 in/lbs ( that's inch lbs. not foot lbs.).
32  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: PHAT Speed Work- Layne Norton on: November 15, 2013, 06:06:05 PM
Fuck this speed work bs. Not needed. At best it sounds like active recovery.

Whenever you squat heavy you should do it with speed. Every squat workout is speed work. Warmups are more controlled of course.

In way you are correct. It is very useful for powerlifting though. Whether or not it actually builds "speed" is debatable. It does however let you perfect your form with lighter weights without draining your CNS.
33  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: PHAT Speed Work- Layne Norton on: November 15, 2013, 02:00:11 PM
Not sure about Layne's version of speed work but the standard version is lighter weights lifted as explosively as possible. Multiple sets 6-8 of 3 reps or less with 50%-70% of your 1rm. The point is to apply as much force into a lighter weight as you would with an all out one rep max.
Very often accomodating resistance is used as well (bands and chains) to further encourage "accelerating" the weight on each rep.
34  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: question for chaos regarding deads on: November 14, 2013, 09:23:46 PM
If it's easier to not reset on each rep then your legs are the weak point in your deadlift. If it's easier to reset and pull from a dead stop then your back is the weaker one out of the two. This is the same relationship as being stronger off the floor vs being stronger in the lock out. I have experienced both versions in my training. I have had periods when anything I could budge off the floor would come up. Then I had training cycles where I would get stuck just below the knees.
35  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: Whats your leg routine look like? on: November 10, 2013, 04:22:30 PM
Here's what I used to do that worked reall well for lower body.
Workout A
1 Hamstring Compound (deads, goodmornings, rdls, stiff leg deads)
2 Quads ( leg press, hack squats, machine squats)
3 Low back iso. or quads iso. (Back extentions, leg extentions)
4 Calves
5 abs

Workout B
1 Quads ( squats, front squats)
2 single leg squat variation (lunges, step ups, single leg squats)
3 Hamstrings iso. ( hamstring curl variation)
4 Calves
5 abs

I would do each workout every 4-5 days.
36  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: question for chaos regarding deads on: November 09, 2013, 06:55:44 PM
I'm still recovering but 500 for 8 still happens. Deads add mass, don't care what any little drug abusers say. Cool

x 1000
37  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: The Natural Training Thread on: October 31, 2013, 05:59:16 PM
Anabolichalo, have you ever considered the very unlikely possiblity that the reason you didn't get very much out of training naturally is because you have absolutely no fucking idea what you are doing.

I know this is very unlikely since other areas of your life are extremely successfull. Surely if you applied the same efforts and logic into your natural training endeavors success would be almost certain. I know that this idea is improbable but still may have to be considered despite it's absurdity.
38  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: close grip bench press on: October 26, 2013, 05:35:28 PM
Ok man I thought it was too close for some reason.

Flat bench definitely has its place but it seems like many people think its the only worthwhile chest movement. This is why many tend to put it down imo, not cause its a bad exercise just that its not the be all and end all for good chest development.


If you were close grip pressing 405 and your regular bench was 455 then it's a bit different.  Yeah if we are talking pure chest I would go with flat db, dips, incline db, and incline bench.
39  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: close grip bench press on: October 26, 2013, 05:06:36 PM
You've asked me this before  Grin

I've never in my life done a one rep max...I don't see the point. As I said earlier, my close grip is similar in weight to what I used on a flat bb bench. I'm talking like no more than pounds 50 lbs. So I figured flat bb has to suck at building my chest since the weight used is similar meaning its mostly tris and delts.


But close grip I use two 45's on each side and squeeze out at least 8 reps with good form. So my flat would be just a bit more than that...50 lbs doesn't seem like a lot. But maybe it is  Huh

I hate flat bb bench  Angry

inb4 translation: I'm a weak bitch.   Tongue

oh I've been doing wide grip bb to the neck I like that exercise a lot...

Your close grip is around 80% of your regular bench which is pretty normal. I personally look at the bench press as a great chest/shoulder/tricep builder rather than just a pure chest movement.
40  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: close grip bench press on: October 26, 2013, 09:25:17 AM
Borracho, I used to have the same problem with lying tricep extentions. I recently started doing them by lowering the bar behind my head until my knucles make contact with the bench. Pain free so far and still hits the triceps well.
41  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: close grip bench press on: October 25, 2013, 03:46:06 PM
It took me a while to find the most productive close grip bench grip. When I first started out I used to love pressing with the E-Z bar, it hit the triceps real nice. Then as I got stronger it became more and more difficult to get it into pressing position and the heavier weights began to bother my wrists. When I switched to a regular barbell I tried going as close as 6". Now I go a little less than shoulder width, feels the best on the elbows and wrists while still hitting the triceps.
42  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: My Training Programm - Your Ideas? Suggestions? Criticism? on: October 24, 2013, 05:44:48 PM
It's not bad. Basically a variation of the fairly standard 4 days a week: back, chest, legs, shoulders/arms, except you are playing around with the pressing days to emphasize the bench press. When most people start out creating their own routines they usually have a routine in mind that they are trying to modify and/or blend with something else. Just out of curiosity, is this the case here?
43  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: The Natural Training Thread on: October 09, 2013, 08:19:29 PM
You sound bitter. Sorry the whole natural route didn't work out for you. At least with gear you finally became that shredded 240lb monster with 20" arms you always wanted to be.
44  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: The Natural Training Thread on: October 09, 2013, 11:20:44 AM
Progressive overload. Doesn't matter if it's set of 4 or sets of 20 as long as you are getting stronger using good form.

Lifting no more than 3-4 days a week. I actually remember a younger guy at my old gym who only went Monday and Thursday and had some very good progress. I personally prefer 3 days per week but I had good  results with 4 as well.

45  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: for those of you who do squats and deads... on: October 02, 2013, 11:35:56 AM
i wish to fuck that that was true, but i've never ever been able to get bigger without lifting heavier training loads EVER

yeah i know some of you dudes claim that one can get bigger without increasing training loads, but i've never ever seen this happen

i remember a few dudes who grew a shitload real quick like and guess what? they lifted much bigger weights

how do i know? well i knew them and i asked them how much thier strength went up in thier lifts and they basically said something like... "a shitload" Grin Grin Grin and yeah, i saw them lifting much bigger weights


That's exactly why I said that it doesn't matter what weight you start at. As long as you do it right and progress in strength where you start is irrelevant.
46  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: for those of you who do squats and deads... on: October 02, 2013, 09:37:22 AM
Grin Grin Grin

well i guess that he would at least do squats to parallel, so i guess i'll do the same, even if it's means only using 90 pounds for a start Smiley

The weight you start at is irrelevant as long as the exercise is done right.
47  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: for those of you who do squats and deads... on: October 01, 2013, 09:06:45 AM
I don't care whether you use 85lbs for full squats it's still better than a 225 above parallel. The deads will take care of the full body overload you are looking for.
48  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Re: Thoughts on the sets across method on: September 22, 2013, 06:20:46 AM
In the past ten years I have tried HIT type routines but mostly stuck to the more common pyramid up volume approach. I always thought that the sets across is for beginners. Then back in 2010 I saw a guy who was 190-195 benching 335lbs for 4 sets of 6 and I was blown away. To me this was very foreign but to him the pyramid style sets that I was doing were strange (he was from Ukraine and has not had very much expirience in American gyms). Ever since then the gears in my head have been turning.
49  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Thoughts on the sets across method on: September 21, 2013, 10:50:51 PM
       I guess this is the most commonly used term for using the same weight for multiple sets. Regardless of what you call it I think just about everyone has used this at some point. And most likely it was when we were just starting out. Remember when we were weak and there was no point in pyramiding up to a set of 6 reps with 135lbs on the bench press. I remember I used to do three sets with it until I got to 10 reps and would up the weight for the next workout. There was no gray line between a warm up set and a work set, I would do my work sets with the same weight and those were the ones that counted.

       Well slowly but surely I began to gravitate back toward this approach for some time now. I first started with isolation movements. I started wondering why am I pyramiding my barbell curls after rows and chin ups. I am clearly warmed up enough, why not just hit 3-4 sets with same weight and call it a day. Then I decided to use this approach with my third and second movements of the workout. Now here I would do a warm up set or two just to get used to the movement and then 3-4 sets with the same weight in a given rep range.

       Now with the first movement of the workout I was very stubborn. I would definitely need 3-5 warm up sets before getting into heavy squats and deadlifts so I figured that 3-4 work sets on top of 3-5 warm up sets would be too much, so I kept pyramiding. Then recently I finally broke down and gave it a try for every single exercise in my routine.

Here is what I found:

I became much more aware of form and controlling the weight than ever before. Muscling through one set with sloppy form is one thing, doing it for 4 sets with the same weight is a whole different story. I found that I was forced to pick a weight that I could handle comfortably. This in turn led to feeling the intended muscle work better.  

I had to cut down the number of exercises per workout. If HIT training by definition is one all out set to failure, then this is the total opposite. Which made me wonder why more people didn't try to go this route when lowering their volume. You can cut work sets or cut the total number of exercises both result in lower volume. I figured I didn't need 3 different curl variations. I picked the one that was the most effective at the time and focused on it.

Warm up sets are just warm up. There was now a clear cut difference between warm up sets and work sets. Some exercises require more warm up sets some less, either way you gotta' get them done so you don't injure yourself. But they should not excessively  fatigue you for the work sets.

Not all work sets are taken to failure. When you are doing multiple sets with the same weight you know that if you blow your wad on the first one or two sets your following sets will suffer, and on the flip side of the coin when you get to your last set you know you got a good amount of work in so you don't see much of a need to grind out some extra reps just to make sure you are getting the most out of the exercise. This ties in very closely to the point about form.  You know when you will have to use some extra momentum or Body-English to get those last couple of reps so you stop the set. So I guess in a way the work sets are taken to failure but to a point of technical failure not to a " by any means necessary" point of failure.

The workouts felt "good". When I am leaving the gym and couple of days after the workout I don't feel like I got hit by a bus. There is soreness and you definitely feel like you did something but you can still function like a normal member of society. Laces and stairs are not an enemy after working legs.  

Wondering if anyone else here trains like this and what you think of it.

 
50  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: If you could go back to college and pick another major, what would it be and why on: September 20, 2013, 09:51:04 PM
I think another bill of goods being sold is that your job has to be your hobby. If it is as the saying goes you got the world by the balls. Having said that, it's called work. If work isn't entertaining you or it's not your passion but paying the bills that's success. Have your fun when you are off work. I thought what my career was for 28 years would be something that I loved but in the end it just provided me with a big house with a 1500 square foot home gym and an in ground swimming pool. No, I didn't love my job. It wasn't my passion or hobby. It just provided for my family.

Couldn't agree more. Everyone has heard the saying "find something that you love to do and you'll never work a day in your life". This is the biggest misconception in choosing a career. Doing something for a living and doing it as a hobby are entirely different animals. A hobby you do when you feel like it, you go to work whether you like it or not. This alone can turn a fun hobby into something you don't want to touch again.

On top of this a lot of people that truly enjoy their work will tend to neglect their personal lives and relationships. They don't mind spending extra hours at their job. We work to live, not live to work.

You choose a career that will support a lifestyle that you want. Nothing more, nothing less.
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