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12751  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Palumbo, are you working with Triple H ??? on: August 23, 2008, 12:59:20 PM
Is Dave 'the x medical student' Palumbo working his magic on Triple H ?

Trip is looking leaner and more ripped than he has in a long time.

Dave and Trip are pretty close. 

I think there could be more to this rumour than meets the eye!

Not really, considering that Hemsley is about 20 lb lighter than he was 5-6 years ago.
12752  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Nutrition, Products & Supplements / Re: Best Supplements on: August 23, 2008, 12:38:35 PM
As of now, I take glutamine, protein, creatine, glocosamine(for my elbows, multivitamins, fish oil, and amino acids. What are some of the best supplements that you all take. Also I would like to kknow If some the the supplements like muscletech's shit is even worth buying?

In answer to your last question, there are plenty......IF you know when and where to shop. Think GNC, Gold Card, and MARKDOWNS!!!! My favorite MuscleTech supplement is CELL-TECH (except for the orange flavored one). As far as price goes, I've paid as little as $20 for the 7-lb jugs. But, that was about three years ago, when they were changing formulas and logos. If you can get Cell-Tech (7-lb jugs) for $40 or less, you're in business.

GAKIC works well, as far as pumping out those extra reps. But, that is quite pricey. I got it cheap is because I bought the now-discontinued powdered version, (dropped to less than half of the price of the pills). Of course,it was the most abysmal-tasting swill ever made; but, there's no such thing a free lunch.

Nitro-Tech ain't my cup of tea. The powdered version gives me a headache, especially the (now-discontinued) "gourmet" flavored (i.e. Orange Creme and Chocolate Cinnamon Swirl). I'll use the RTDs occasionally, but I do wish the bottled ones, grape and fruit punch, were still sold. Those were terrific!!! Now, all they have is the canned ones, which just come in the standard chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry and have mostly calcium caseinate; whereas, the bottled ones were pure whey protein.

Hydroxycut Hardcore is a definite winner, if you're looking for a fat-burner. But, stores across the board tend to keep hiking up the price. For the small (120-capsule) bottle, I'd wait for a price of $30 or less, before buying it.
12753  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 22, 2008, 01:41:14 PM
You should get into politics.   Smiley

It's "only man" becuase you can't see or understand life without an object of worship.

I'm not sure what you are getting here.  True atheism allows for the possibility of God, but in the absence of evidence currently there is none. 

IF that's the case, these these folks from "" aren't true atheists, as the statement "Nor can there be" (with regards to the existence of supernatural forces or entities) doesn't allow for any possibility of God existing. 

the possibility of gaining the 99.99999999999 of unknown universe is very unlikely.
Are you saying they give the reverence to man as you do to God?   hahahahahaha.  not.

Maybe not. They may be even MORE devoted to their object of "worship"  Grin .

Just from what little i know of you.  You are by far one of the most truest Christians i have ever met.   And you seem to live your life the same way you talk about God.  No way that can be compared to an atheist view of man.

I thank you for the compliment, but I feel it's an undeserved one, as I fall short of that more times than I care to admit.

Holding something in the highest esteem doesn't denote worship. 

And who knows what each athiest holds in their highest esteem category or if they do?   You assume they do becuase of your view on life.

I may not know what each atheist holds in their highest esteem. But, I can take an educated guess, if he happens to be a member of one of the aforementioned groups, referenced on this thread.
12754  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: When you hit 30, test levels drop to that of 3yr old girl,you drop all your mass on: August 22, 2008, 01:22:20 PM
You suddenly can only bench 80 pounds  and can only hope to achieve arms like Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse.

Where are people getting this ridiculous idea that, if they don't max out their size and strength in their 20s, it's all over when the big 3-0 hits?

My testosterone is just fine. I hit 405 on my bench press three years ago, at age 32, when I bulked up to 250. Now, I'm a leaner 230-235 and am almost as strong now as I was then. Hopefully, before this year ends, I'll be even stronger.
12755  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 22, 2008, 01:00:30 PM
As per the definition he is NOT worshiping himself.

Your idea, is that in absence of GOd he must therefore be worshiping himself.  You cannot seem to see life without some sort of worship.  Atheists do.

Not necessarily. The issue isn't the lack of "worship", but the object of such. In the Christian's case, it's God; in the atheists' case, it's man.

Not true at all.  Based on known evidence yes.  but as the universe is 99.999999999999999999999  unknown.......and they know that.

Oh really!? They appear awfully confident that they ain't going to find any higher being than themselves anytime soon, "This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be".

That don't sound like "we don't know" or it's "99.9999999999999999% unknown" to me.

Exactly why can there not be any forces or entites that transcend nature (as man knows it, anyway)?

And if it was, they still don't worship themselves just as monkeys wouldn't if there wasn't man on earth.

You are, once again, assuming such would be in the same format as that of Christians or others who worship a supernatural deity.

Again, known entity, AND they don't, based on the definition, worship the species.

Yes, they do. Based on the definition, they do have a sacred personage (that would be man). They hold the logic and reason of man in as high esteem as Christians do the Word of God.

It may always have and is constantly developing.

Developing or not, it's still man's reasoning and logic, not God, that they hold in highest esteem.
12756  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Nutrition, Products & Supplements / Re: WWE Star John Cena Now With Ultimate Nutrition? on: August 22, 2008, 12:49:22 PM
If the guy was able to increase sales of supplements so well then why did ABB piledrive his contract when they had him? I think wrestlers give no credibility to supplements for those that are seriously committed to building their physique. Sure they're famous but so is Michael Jackson.

Did ABB fire Cena? Perhaps, Ultimate Nutrition simply bought out Cena's contract with ABB.

Something similar happened in the 90s with Mike Francois. For two years, he was with Champion Nutrition, particularly hyping its MET MAX supplements. Then, he ended up with Weider. I later read in MuscleMag, that Weider bought out Francois' contract for $100,000 to get the 1995 Arnold Schwarzenegger Champion to jump ship.

12757  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 22, 2008, 12:34:24 PM
It doesn't back anything up.  You are taking statements out of context and attaching your own meaning to them to validate your assertions.  It's not even related to worship.

what does:  only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment?

What does it have to do with worship?  If i want to knowledge about a subject or of a thing I'd look to that subject or thing.  That doesn't mean i worship it.  That's really silly.

I can see why you think it, but it's not reality.  I see that your life hinges on the idea of the GOD of the Bible being everything.  You cannot fathom life in any aspect with out an ultimate being as identified in the Bible.

And the atheists' life hinges on the idea that nothing but the natural phenomema exists. If there's any hierachy or order, then it's merely a natural one. Therefore, the highest entity in that order is the ultimate authority. Take a wild guess as to who the highest entity is.

So you have to construct a connection, no matter how ambiguous or irrelevant, to make sense of how anyone else might see things differently to justify your assertions. 

It's cool.  I get it and respect you for it. 

But don't for one minute try and pass off what you put in bold as worship.

That's been answered pretty well in other posts on this thread.  I even provided you a standard. 

And statement 1 and 7 don't mean anything close to what atheist do.

I don't have to construct anything, as the words are there in black and white. They belief that there's nothing beyond the natural and that "Humankind (man) is on his own". If that's the case, why is there such a problem with stating that man is effectively worshipping himself? He believes in nothing he can't detect with his senses or can't grasp with his own logic and reason. He thinks that he is the highest being. Man's logic and reason set the bar for morality, right and wrong, "good" and "evil".

He ain't getting his moral compass from sheep, cattle, and the fowls of the air.

12758  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 22, 2008, 12:03:30 PM
Why must there necessarily be something to abandon?  You cannot fashion a belief out of something that doesn't exist in your heart.  Plain and simple.

I made that remark, because you said that some of the atheist groups were more political in nature, specifically to oppose the "religious right". Again, there are a number of groups that oppose the "religious right" but DO NOT claim that there's no God. In fact, some of these folks proclaim quite adamantly that they are Christians.

You're making me work MCWAY  Grin but it's okay.  I like new learning experiences.  Smiley

QUEENS, NY -- This one is totally political, of which much I don't agree with, but anyway.

CT --  I would totally spend evenings with these people!!!

JOISEY  Grin -- More of a family humanism group.

I'm afraid you've linked more of the same stuff that Bum did. The "Joisey" group, for instance. It may be a family humanism group, but check out the very first paragraph at the top of the home page:

The New Jersey Humanist Network is a vibrant and growing community of secular humanists. Humanism is a democratic and ethical life-stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives.   We believe that virtues like morality, kindness, justice and generosity derive from natural human values and reason, and are realized fully only when free from belief in supernatural powers and a spiritual afterlife.  Please consider joining us for our free monthly meetings in Bridgewater.

That's another example of what I've been saying. These humanists see THEMSELVES (man) as the ultimate authority on morality and are joined by the common doctrine/belief that there is no God.

I just don't see this "mock church" aspect with services and fake bishops that you and BB point to with sneering dismissiveness.  The last one appears to have more "atheist" teachings within its concept, but as Ozmo says, parents do need to teach their children morality in some fashion after all.  I could also ask you why so many sermons at any given moment focus so much on the "godless" and alleged "sinners." Why does Ben Stein need to make anti-evolution flicks, and go on religious talk shows to spew stuff like "God is love, science leads to killing people?" With two thirds of the US population being Christian, surely you have nothing to fear.

I only have a few mins and will answer the other stuff later, but usmokepole, Ozmo and Decker have done a good job of trying to explain it.  I think you're just so inured to the idea of obeying a great father that you can't imagine morality without supernatural punishment or reward. It does exist though.

With regards to the Palo Alto center, I was making a joke, because the last name of the guy who runs the place happens to be "Bishop". How ironic is that?

As for Stein's statement, that's rather silly. Science is simply the study of nature, God's nature. It has been used to do what Jesus charged His disciples to do: Heal the sick; clothe the naked; feed the hungry; and, execute what Christians have coined the Great Commission, "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost".

Christians have been charged to spread the Gospel. Scientific discovery has aided GREATLY to that end.

12759  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda on: August 22, 2008, 11:48:38 AM
That's an assumption you are making FOR atheists.  Show me where atheists say that.  We are back to you putting a false condition on something to make your point make sense.

That's not a false condition. Here's an excerpt from one of the links that Beach Bum posted (

Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter, and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be. Humankind is on its own.

The following definition of Atheism was given to the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), to remove reverential Bible reading and oral unison recitation of the Lord's Prayer in the public schools.

“Your petitioners are Atheists and they define their beliefs as follows. An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.

An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.

An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow mancan he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.

That pretty much backs what I've said from the start. Atheists put themselves (MAN) as the top hiearchy, as far as authority is concerned.

I don't believe the God that's identified in the bible is the source of morality.  But that's another discussion, a horse well beaten to death by us.

That is another story. But, it goes back to my earlier statements. Atheists don't believe that God (whether you think it's the one defined in the Bible or not) is the source of moral authority. Once again, the question is asked: Who/What is this moral authority or standard for atheists?

"a" (a sacred personage) denotes singularity.  It does not denote an entire species.

in definition 7 it's the same.

In definition 10, it's a general statement.  I view my children and parents with "reverence or regard"   Does that mean worship them instead of God?

Definition 10 is a general statement, which is why I added definitions 1 and 7, to specify it.
12760  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda on: August 22, 2008, 09:07:23 AM
Why does a martyr do what he does?  "Good feelings", to me, indicate some sort of psychological satisfaction in doing something.  That would include dying for a cause--running into a burning building to save a child, throwing oneself on a grenade, or just plain sacrifice for a cause bigger than one's self.

There's a reason it's called "sacrifice", Decker. It's because it DOES NOT feel good. It hurts: physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically, financially, or any combination thereof.

Anyone can do something good, when it feels good. How many can do something good, when it hurts? Can you love someone who doesn't love you back?

Can you help someone, knowing they don't or won't appreciate it? Can you give, knowing that it's going to put you in financial strain?
12761  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 22, 2008, 08:59:44 AM
Who says?

Again that's a condition "you" are establishing and not necessarily the truth.

YOU say!!! Your statement was "that God is the source of morality". My question was that, since atheists don't believe in God, what is their source or standard of morality? Who/what is the measuring stick for right and wrong?

You got to remember i strongly believe in God.  That being said, i would think an Atheist sees life void of an ultimate being until such is proven to exist.

I beg to differ. Until an atheist feels that the existence of an ultimate being has been proven, he will insert himself (man) as that being.

I would think  intelligent Atheists don't assume they are the highest in the universe. 

I told you in the other part about the pastor.

I agree.  but he was this way before he was "saved" and now that his faith is disillusioned he's back to the way he was.  Shows me, he was never what he thought he was at the core. 

Well that brings into question the definition of the word worship: Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
wor·ship    Audio Help   /ˈwɜrʃɪp/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wur-ship] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -shiped, -ship·ing or (especially British) -shipped, -ship·ping.
1.   reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.
2.   formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage: They attended worship this morning.
3.   adoring reverence or regard: excessive worship of business success.
4.   the object of adoring reverence or regard.
5.   (initial capital letter) British. a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually prec. by Your, His, or Her).
–verb (used with object)
6.   to render religious reverence and homage to.
7.   to feel an adoring reverence or regard for (any person or thing).
–verb (used without object)
8.   to render religious reverence and homage, as to a deity.
9.   to attend services of divine worship.
10.   to feel an adoring reverence or regard.

I suppose you could apply some of what you saying regarding worship but it's quite a reach to compare it with worshiping God.  In fact, it's not applicable. 

Definitions 1, 7, and 10 seem to fit the bill, as to the type of "worship", that atheists do. In particular, I point out definition 1:

1.   reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

Key words: "Or a sacred personage". With atheism, the "or" option is taken and the "sacred personage" is man himself. "an's thoughts, man's logic, and man's reason have become revered.

12762  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda on: August 22, 2008, 08:49:58 AM

exactly, evolutionary psychology has produced many answers as to why morality or altruism exists. It all has to do personal gratification, doing something good produces good feelings, as well as providing service to others who may in fact return the favor if needed. It has been demonstrated in social psychology and morality is extremely beneficial to have as humans prefer order and patterns insted of chaos and disorder. It allows us to increase our fitness and recieve physical/psychologica benefits.


There's at least one major problem with this statement of yours: Doing something good DOES NOT always produce good feelings nor provide personal gratification.

What about reporting a wrongdoing, when the perpetrator is a close friend or relative? Does it produce good feelings, when that buddy of yours now hates your guts, because he's in trouble?

Then, there are people that give and help out a friend financially, even though they are barely making it themselves. How gratifying is it, when such sacrifice goes without gratitude or even returned with scorn?

If everybody did good, simply because it produce good feelings or it was gratifying, this planet would be in even WORSE moral shape that it currently is now.

12763  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda on: August 21, 2008, 09:05:04 AM
There are probably beings much more highly evolved than we are; far greater than homo sapiens.

Then why aren't you following their standards of right and wrong, instead of your own?

Hey Ozmo,

I heard on a radio show once how some guy called in and said if he didn't believe in Jebus and the Bible he would murder his neighbors and the host kept asking him, are you serious and he kept saying yes I am serious; for people like that I am glad they have their religion but personally I think they should be hospitalised.

I obviously cannot speak for all atheists but to me morality is simple; cause the least pain and make life as tolerable as possible. This is based on mutual understanding; I don't want others to rob me or stab me so I don't do it myself. I don't need an angry war god shouting out barbarism to me to 'not steal or murder'. People like that should be locked away.

The apostle Paul had a term for that. It’s called “having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof.” There are many people who follow the principles of the Lord, without giving Him honor and glory for such. 

As for your “mutual understanding”, (notwithstanding that such is based on humanistic reasoning) saying that “I don’t want (fill in the blank) done to me; so I won’t do that to other people” ain’t the most sound principle in the world. It's quite easy to justify doing something to someone else that you DON'T want done to you.

You may want to have sex with someone else’s wife/girlfriend; but, it’s highly unlikely that you would want another guy to bone your wife/girlfriend. And, even thieves lament when someone takes their possessions from them. And, virtually no murderer wants to be murdered himself; no rapist wants to be raped.

12764  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 21, 2008, 08:50:28 AM
Why does there have to an ultimate authority?  That's something you assume needs to be.

Because morals and standards, "good" and "evil", are based on some sort of authority. The question remains, what/who is that authority for atheists, since it is not a supernatural being?

You are the one that seems to be assuming much.  It seems to me that a condition you put on life is the prerequisite of the existence of an ultimate being.  Being that, if you don;t believe there is a God ,then you must replace God with man.

Would you prefer He be replaced with sheep? Again, if it ain't God or man, then who is this ultimate being?

That's not the case at all.  From what i understand Atheists look at themselves as higher animals.

And, unless there's a higher "animal" than man, he is on top of the hiearchy, as is his doctrine, logic, and reason, when it comes to determining "good" and "evil".

I think I see what you are saying about sources.  God is the source of morality. 

EXACTLY!!! But, atheists don't believe in God; therefore someone/something else drives their sense of morality. What is that source?

However, I believe in the atheist's mind, the root of morality, which has manifested itself in many forms and in many cultures through out time stems from the idea of victimization.  If your actions produce a victim then it's wrong.  And morals evolve as cultures evolve.

My parents raised me with a strong set of moral standards based in Christian teachings.  However, those teachings do not keep from doing bad things.  So whether it is God or not, I choose not to do bad things.

I have a friend, who is now a former pastor, who got angry at God becuase of his divorce.  He's womanizing, lying, cheating, drug user now.  He was never a truly good person IMO. The only thing that keep him "in check" was his belief in God.  And that was fine by me becuase i would rather have the way he was.

His anger was misplaced. Just because people do wrong to you doesn't mean you have license to do wrong to others, especially when (most of the time) your victims aren't the ones who did you dirty.

Not worshiping God doesn't mean you will replace him.  Worshiping is not a core function of man.  In your way of thinking it may be, but not with those who don't believe in God.

I beg to differ. Plus, worship does not imply that the fashion in which it's done will be similar or identical. Just as Muslims don't worship Allah in the exact method that Christians worship God, man doesn't worship himself in the same fashion that Christians worship God or Muslims worship Allah.
12765  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 21, 2008, 08:09:16 AM
Such is not the case, but instead a condition you place to make a point.  Nothing says there has to be any ultimate authority.

But, there is an ultimate authority, Ozmo. They are teaching morals and values from some source or standard. If it's not man or God, then who/what is it?

I wouldn't think atheist see man as the highest sentient being.  I could be wrong, but i don;t think atheism has any roots in the idea that man is the highest being in the universe when 99.999999999999999999999 99999999% is unknown.

I missed the part where atheists claimed that there’s a being higher than man. If they "don't know", they assume that there is no such being. And, until they "find" such a being, they place man in that position, by default.

No i doesn't.  What I've read from the atheist on this board is no where near what you just wrote here.  It's just an conclusion you've made to make sense of them in your belief system.

That's the difference between some people.  Some people need a book or set of laws or rules to show them how to be good.  Truly good people don't need laws or rules to follow Biblical or otherwise to be good.

That makes no sense, Ozmo. Again, who/what determines whether or not someone is being good? You can NOT qualify “good” vs. “evil” without some sort of standard. My statements make the point that the atheists have such a standard and a source. But, they spend so much time screaming about what/who that source is NOT, that little attention is placed on who/what that source IS.

Someone taught YOU how to be good and they got their values and morals from a certain source. You didn't learn how to be good on your own (and neither did your parents).

Where does this happen?

Maybe some Pagan off shoot ritual cult does.

Not necessarily! Man is a created being. Therefore, if he is effectively worshipping himself (his own logic, reason, and understanding), the statement from Paul sticks.

12766  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 21, 2008, 07:09:19 AM
Teaching morality doesn't define a religion. 

It isn’t the mere teaching of morality, Ozmo. It’s the SOURCE of such. Whose morals are they teaching? Who do they claim has the ULTIMATE authority of determining right and wrong?

My point is that, if God is not that ultimate authority, then it is man. And, if such is the case, then man is the highest sentient being, whose views and ethics are being revered and “worshipped”. That effectively makes man the “deity” of atheism, a natural “deity” vs. a supernatural one.
12767  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 21, 2008, 06:56:52 AM
Sure they would. Atheism is simply the non-belief in a supernatural being.  If Christianity, Islam etc never existed, you would have a world populated by people who did not believe in the supernatural.  Those would be atheists.  It is the word by which we refer to people who don't believe in supernatural beings. Some would argue that atheism came first, man invented the supernatural later on.

Atheism is a label to describe that little part of people that they are not.  It doesn't label what they ARE. People who don't believe in the supernatural might wholeheartedly subscribe to existentialism, absolute idealism, romanticism, naturalism, etc... any number of belief systems.

How can atheism be a religion when all it is, is a component of many belief systems.

All of those systems have ONE common doctrine: The belief that there is no supernatural being. In its place, they put a natural being/entity (usually, MAN) as the object of worship and reverence. Or, as the apostle Paul put it, they worship the created, instead of the Creator.

12768  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda on: August 21, 2008, 06:35:55 AM
Why do you think belief in Zeus and Ares is so wrong?

That’s a question you should ask yourself, Deicide.

12769  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda on: August 21, 2008, 05:15:36 AM
my work buddy said his chuch pastor was telling them they should vote you guys feel this is ok?

It's OK.....IF you want folks like the ACLU all up in your business. It's more about issues, not the candidates themselves. Case in point. Rod Parsley, from World Harvest Church (in Ohio), took a lot of flak for backing the state's marriage amendment in 2004. He is often cited as touting the Republican party. However, many of his critics didn't seem to notice that he had a number of Democrats at that rally, who also supported the Ohio's marriage amendment.

From what I saw of those websites, there is a political aspect to it.  Namely the liberal left agenda against what they see as the stifling Christian agenda.  That convention website had a talk by an activist lawyer listed. Another had other topics relating to "take back our rights, don't be silent" topics.  In general in the US, religion has become very politicized, so it's only natural that the "other" side would be as well.

You can oppose what's known as the "religious right" WITHOUT abandoning your faith in God (or any other supernatural entities). That may be part of the agenda. But, mere political opposition is NOT the primary reason why they assemble. It's beyond politics; this is about philosophy, about "doctrine". BTW, I’d love to know what atheists are supposedly trying to “take back”, considering that no one stripped them of any rights, in the first place.

That's one humanist center.  Kooky people.

That's the one referenced in the article. However, I'm sure that the other have similar practices. If you find one that differs, please list it here.
12770  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 20, 2008, 12:54:37 PM
The claim that people who get together for political reasons or to socialize are part of an organized religion does nothing other than denigrate your own faith.

They're not getting together merely to socialize or for political reasons. Political and social groups assemble for SPECIFIC political and social purposes;  These atheist groups come together for one specific and overriding purpose: To reaffirm their "faith" that THERE IS NO GOD. That is the primary (if not the sole) reason for the groups' existence.

That's especially true with the humanist centers. The lady interviewed stated that she notices her neighbors have church groups and families to help teach values and that are a source of strength on which to lean. That's why they pack up the minivan with the kids and head to "mock church", as Beach Bum calls it.

From reading the article, it would appear that Bum's name is appropriate. It's complete with a basic doctrine ("There is no God"), a deity (man, focusing on man's "logic" and "reason"), hymns, etc. Heck, the particular one in Palo Alto literally has a "bishop"  Grin.

It appears the only thing missing is having deacons collect tithe and offering. Of course, if this place is run on donations.........
12771  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda on: August 20, 2008, 08:28:22 AM
I'm not here to argue that Atheism is a religion, and I am aware that not all atheists are the same.  However, you can't compare organized Atheism to Republicans, Democrats, the NRA or the Mustang club.  Those organizations would still exist even if so much as the idea of God did not exist.  But if the idea of God did not exist at all, neither would atheists nor organized Atheism.  Therefore, Atheism is attached to and dependent on the idea of God.  This is why some might think of organized Atheism as a religion. 
Also, there are the former atheists turned agnostics, deists and theists who say that they came to a point in their life where denying the existence of God any longer would take more faith than accepting it...their words, not mine.

Indeed!! In fact, as you already know, one of your favorite apologists, Josh McDowell, was once an atheist. If I'm not mistaken, his conversion came (ironically enough) during a research project of his, in which he was going to show unequivocally that Jesus Christ never existed and that Christianity was a myth.

Now, he's a bona fide believer. I've seen him mainly on TV specials, in particular "Who Is This Jesus? Is He Risen?"

What's a mock church?  Grin  Do they have ritual mock prayers? They must be secret satan worshipers!!!  Angry

Beach Bum is referring to the humanist centers, from the TIME magazine article I mentioned (and linked) earlier. The article focused specifically on the "atheist Sunday schools". The non-religious parents wanted to have their godless values and ideas reinforced, along with a support network, mirroring what Christians have with churches and Sunday school.

12772  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda on: August 19, 2008, 08:59:54 AM
End of Thread.... Undecided

I guess this thread didn’t morph into the Christianity (or other religion) bashfest for which Deicide was hoping.
12773  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Nutrition, Products & Supplements / Re: how much protein do you really eat? on: August 19, 2008, 08:42:21 AM
I've been eating in the 400-500 gram per day range for quite a while now. I find it easy as hell actually. Always half beef or chicken and half Powder. I eat like 12oz of steak or chicken with potatoes or rice 3x a day. I drink 3 shakes with whey protein.

Sounds like a winner to me, if you need that much protein to get bigger and stronger.

12774  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Nutrition, Products & Supplements / Re: The Last Topic on Postworkout Nutrition on: August 19, 2008, 08:28:21 AM
i just down an ALN maximus shake.. protien blend, malto-d, ets, etc. GOOD STUFF! I'm curious about WM though. Seems some people love it and others don't see much of a difference. Either way.. eat after a workout and you'll be fine.  Grin

Waxy Maize (at least the one from IDS) tastes like a cross between powdered sugar and chalk.
12775  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Nutrition, Products & Supplements / Re: ALA & Celltech on: August 18, 2008, 08:55:33 AM
ALA has been one of the only supps I've taken consistently for over 10 years now and I've never heard of or experienced such a thing.  Very weird. 

I know that it can cause a burning sensation in your throat if not swallowed properly or when it's not capsulated (Cell-Schmek).

That doesn't happen (or at least, not to me), if you use the Grape and Lemon-lime flavors of CELL-TECH. Fruit Punch is a different story and the Orange flavor does that ALL THE TIME. That, along with its bitter taste, is why I loathe that particular flavor (unless GNC has the 7-lb jugs marked down to $20  Grin).
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