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12751  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 24, 2008, 08:05:31 PM
I've heard said by atheists before.  But I'm not anywhere near being truly knowledgeable about atheism save that they don't believe in God in anyway.

That's why I went to the links provided here. Again, by their own words (at least, those on atheists.org), they are quite confident that there is no God nor can there be one. If I want to know what atheists believe, I simply ask them or link their sites.

The term "anti-theist" is a better fit for many, because there's not just a lack of a belief but a hearty disdain for religion (and sometimes, people of faith).


Even though i don't agree, I respect your view on this and see why based on your beliefs why you could conclude that. 


The feeling's mutual.
12752  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Nutrition, Products & Supplements / Re: More goodies from GNC!!! on: August 24, 2008, 07:52:01 PM
Now, I've picked up another supplement I've been curious about trying.

I was thinking of getting another NO supplement and perhaps trying another creatine supplement.

Lo and behold, there's a shrink-wrapped 2-box pack of ON's VASSIVE-CE and VASSIVE-NO for a mere $12.50, with 15 servings of each products per box.

12753  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Nutrition, Products & Supplements / Re: Supplemental mythology- the skinny on alll things supplemental. on: August 24, 2008, 07:48:18 PM
I also found Glutamine did nothing.

I found the following supplements worked, as I did judo competively right untill a few years ago, diet( I fought in a weight group) and legal performance enhancers was always of massive interest to me.

Late 1990s Creatine, the first sup I could feel work for real!
Early 2000s NO boosters I could feel and see working
Now pre work out boosters make a big difference.

As far as eating goes, modern protein shakes that dont give you cramps and gass for 24 hours after downing them (like the old WEIDER shakes) have made a big difference in post work out recovery.

Don't I know it? I put on a lot of size in college, using Mega Mass 2000. But, brother, my tummy paid the price for it.
12754  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: 2012 Mr. Olympia - new venue in Orlando, Florida on: August 24, 2008, 07:46:13 PM
Here's a link to a new performing arts center in Orlando FL
Possible venue for Mr. Olympia ?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-dpac2208aug22,0,3583880.story

Where was the Olympia held, when it was in Orlando back in '91?
12755  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Why do (or did) "Naturals" take PROHormones but not steroids? on: August 24, 2008, 07:38:55 PM
I wouldn`t consider Synthol as cheating when all it does is make one look regressively worse.  You would have to be a fool to use it in the first place and it never has looked pleasing on anybody.

Same thing with implants or wearing a muscle rubber suit.  All are absurd.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that one. My point was that it's been well-documented that many bodybuilders take certain substances that (to many) would knock them out of the "natural" category, which don't necessarily involve their testosterone levels.

Plus, whether prohormones are steroids or not is STILL subject to debate. So, to answer your question, there are some whose have (for lack of a better term) "liberal" definition of natural (i.e. they'll take anything but steroids and substance like Clenbuterol, GH, or insulin).

As I stated, when someone asked if I was a "natty", anything I take besides regular food can be easily purchased at your average nutrition store (GNC, Vitamin Shoppe, etc.). By your definition, I wouldn't be a "natty", because of the supplements I currently use, namely Vitamin Shoppe's Python and Natrol's DHEA, which I got at the grocery store, while buying some more chicken and yams.

Nor, would you consider me natural, based on my use of androstendione and norandrostendione in the late 90s.
12756  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: When you hit 30, test levels drop to that of 3yr old girl,you drop all your mass on: August 24, 2008, 07:31:41 PM
How tall are you?

Depends on which shoes I'm wearing   Grin . Actually, I'm 5'9".
12757  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Why do (or did) "Naturals" take PROHormones but not steroids? on: August 24, 2008, 07:25:17 PM
1. Prohormones: are steroids
2. Steroids:  anything synthetically manufactured or naturally occurring that raises your Testosterone levels above and beyond normal ranges for a sustainable duration due to whatever is ingested or injected.
3. Being Natural:  No usage of number 1 or 2.
4.Being Clean:   Prior usage of number 1 or 2.
5.Meat and Dairy products while animal is on rGh, etc..: Number 3, Natural as this will not have a significant effect of raising Testosterone levels above normal for a lengthy duration.

By that definition, people can take substances (drugs) to help them gain mass that DO NOT affect their testosterone levels, yet still be called "natural".

That would even include Synthol.
12758  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: Prayers For Big Poppa J on: August 24, 2008, 07:17:59 PM
Is this supposed to be a joke?

No, the joke would be your continuing to flap your gums and add your unsolicited, rude, and often-times bone-headed commentary, concerning this matter.

If you don't want to heed Poppa J's request, so be it. Don't post on Coach's thread (of that of anyone else) for prayer requests.

On a lighter note, Coach, consider it done!!
12759  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Why do (or did) "Naturals" take PROHormones but not steroids? on: August 24, 2008, 07:04:11 PM
Until you actually qualify what makes someone "natural", discussions like this are basically pointless.

I mentioned this a few weeks ago; but some people think that ANYTHING that you consume, other than regular food, takes you out of the "natural" category.

Some of you may remember my story about the two college freshmen football players. For those who haven't heard it, basically one guy was putting something into his shaker bottle and having it with lunch. When his gridiron buddy joined him and saw what he was doing, he bascially said, "I don't mess with that @&^#. That #&@^ make your nuts shrink".

My guess is that he was referring to anabolic steroids, when referencing the whole testicular atrophy thing. The problem (thus the reason for my nearly spitting out my food in laughter) is that the substance the one player was drinking was......JOE WEIDER'S SUGAR-FREE BIG weight gainer.
12760  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: who is the better athlete bolt or ronnie coleman? on: August 23, 2008, 06:54:28 PM
Ronnie Squats and deadlifts 800pounds for reps.
I would like to see bolt do that!



So the correct answer is RONALD O COLEMAN

I thought Ronnie's middle name was Dean.

Again, it's two different arenas. Let's see Coleman match Bolt's times on the track.

Didn't Kevin Levrone race a world-class sprinter a few years ago?
12761  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: who is the better athlete bolt or ronnie coleman? on: August 23, 2008, 06:44:59 PM
1. who is the better athlete bolt or ronnie?
2. which one would you rather look like?


You're comparing two different guys in two different arenas.

Plus, are you going to include Coleman's football and powerlifting accomplishments into the picture?
12762  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: When you hit 30, test levels drop to that of 3yr old girl,you drop all your mass on: August 23, 2008, 05:35:08 PM
I'm in my 30s and am far stronger and bigger than i was in my 20s.  Stop training like a bunch of fukkin' twinks.

It may not be just their training. There's the nutrition side of the house, too. As I mentioned elsewhere, too many would-be bodybuilders have abysmal diets and expect supplements to make up for their poor eating practices.

Then, when they run out of money and end up doing what they should have done from the get-go, FIXING THEIR DIETS (and finally getting some decent results), they whine about how worthless supplements are.

Again, I don't know who came up with the dumb idea that the party's over at 30, with regards to gaining size and strength. But, they need to get a grip.
12763  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: When you hit 30, test levels drop to that of 3yr old girl,you drop all your mass on: August 23, 2008, 05:29:10 PM
Natty?

As in no steroids or growth hormone? Yes!!

Anything that I ingest, besides food, are items that can be easily purchased in your average, card-carrying nutrition store (GNC, Vitamin Shoppe, etc).

12764  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Stop the hype on Wolf!! on: August 23, 2008, 02:52:59 PM
What about the Federov push a few years ago... how he was supposed to be top 3 etc. etc.

Federov has the size and shape. He didn't replicate the condition at the Olympia that he had in those two Russian Grand Prix shows.

And, unlike Federov, Wolf placed in the top 5 at his second Olympia appearance, after placing in the pack ("16th") the previous year. Generally, when you crack the top 5, you get plenty of buzz for being a factor in the next year's competition.
12765  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Palumbo, are you working with Triple H ??? on: August 23, 2008, 02:25:22 PM
Yeh HHH has looked different almost every year due to alot of things.When he just came back from his injury in 2002 he was at his biggest and lean, then he got pretty fat, then he got his other quad injury and came back lighter and leaner again, no big deal

I didn't really notice it, until I was watching the Hulk Hogan "Ultimate Anthology" DVD and saw the match where Hogan fights Hemsley for the Undisputed title at Backlash (2002). Triple H is listed as 272 lbs. in that match. And, he looks MASSIVE!!!, considerably larger than he is now. You get a good shot at Hemsley's physique, starting at the 2:55 mark.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErX0cAev36c" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErX0cAev36c</a>
12766  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Palumbo, are you working with Triple H ??? on: August 23, 2008, 12:59:20 PM
Is Dave 'the x medical student' Palumbo working his magic on Triple H ?

Trip is looking leaner and more ripped than he has in a long time.

Dave and Trip are pretty close. 

I think there could be more to this rumour than meets the eye!

Not really, considering that Hemsley is about 20 lb lighter than he was 5-6 years ago.
12767  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Nutrition, Products & Supplements / Re: Best Supplements on: August 23, 2008, 12:38:35 PM
As of now, I take glutamine, protein, creatine, glocosamine(for my elbows, multivitamins, fish oil, and amino acids. What are some of the best supplements that you all take. Also I would like to kknow If some the the supplements like muscletech's shit is even worth buying?

In answer to your last question, there are plenty......IF you know when and where to shop. Think GNC, Gold Card, and MARKDOWNS!!!! My favorite MuscleTech supplement is CELL-TECH (except for the orange flavored one). As far as price goes, I've paid as little as $20 for the 7-lb jugs. But, that was about three years ago, when they were changing formulas and logos. If you can get Cell-Tech (7-lb jugs) for $40 or less, you're in business.

GAKIC works well, as far as pumping out those extra reps. But, that is quite pricey. I got it cheap is because I bought the now-discontinued powdered version, (dropped to less than half of the price of the pills). Of course,it was the most abysmal-tasting swill ever made; but, there's no such thing a free lunch.

Nitro-Tech ain't my cup of tea. The powdered version gives me a headache, especially the (now-discontinued) "gourmet" flavored (i.e. Orange Creme and Chocolate Cinnamon Swirl). I'll use the RTDs occasionally, but I do wish the bottled ones, grape and fruit punch, were still sold. Those were terrific!!! Now, all they have is the canned ones, which just come in the standard chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry and have mostly calcium caseinate; whereas, the bottled ones were pure whey protein.

Hydroxycut Hardcore is a definite winner, if you're looking for a fat-burner. But, stores across the board tend to keep hiking up the price. For the small (120-capsule) bottle, I'd wait for a price of $30 or less, before buying it.
12768  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 22, 2008, 01:41:14 PM
You should get into politics.   Smiley

It's "only man" becuase you can't see or understand life without an object of worship.

I'm not sure what you are getting here.  True atheism allows for the possibility of God, but in the absence of evidence currently there is none. 

IF that's the case, these these folks from "www.atheists.org" aren't true atheists, as the statement "Nor can there be" (with regards to the existence of supernatural forces or entities) doesn't allow for any possibility of God existing. 


the possibility of gaining the 99.99999999999 of unknown universe is very unlikely.
Are you saying they give the reverence to man as you do to God?   hahahahahaha.  not.

Maybe not. They may be even MORE devoted to their object of "worship"  Grin .


Just from what little i know of you.  You are by far one of the most truest Christians i have ever met.   And you seem to live your life the same way you talk about God.  No way that can be compared to an atheist view of man.

I thank you for the compliment, but I feel it's an undeserved one, as I fall short of that more times than I care to admit.


Holding something in the highest esteem doesn't denote worship. 

And who knows what each athiest holds in their highest esteem category or if they do?   You assume they do becuase of your view on life.


I may not know what each atheist holds in their highest esteem. But, I can take an educated guess, if he happens to be a member of one of the aforementioned groups, referenced on this thread.
12769  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: When you hit 30, test levels drop to that of 3yr old girl,you drop all your mass on: August 22, 2008, 01:22:20 PM
You suddenly can only bench 80 pounds  and can only hope to achieve arms like Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse.




Where are people getting this ridiculous idea that, if they don't max out their size and strength in their 20s, it's all over when the big 3-0 hits?

My testosterone is just fine. I hit 405 on my bench press three years ago, at age 32, when I bulked up to 250. Now, I'm a leaner 230-235 and am almost as strong now as I was then. Hopefully, before this year ends, I'll be even stronger.
12770  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 22, 2008, 01:00:30 PM
As per the definition he is NOT worshiping himself.

Your idea, is that in absence of GOd he must therefore be worshiping himself.  You cannot seem to see life without some sort of worship.  Atheists do.

Not necessarily. The issue isn't the lack of "worship", but the object of such. In the Christian's case, it's God; in the atheists' case, it's man.


Not true at all.  Based on known evidence yes.  but as the universe is 99.999999999999999999999  unknown.......and they know that.

Oh really!? They appear awfully confident that they ain't going to find any higher being than themselves anytime soon, "This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be".

That don't sound like "we don't know" or it's "99.9999999999999999% unknown" to me.

Exactly why can there not be any forces or entites that transcend nature (as man knows it, anyway)?


And if it was, they still don't worship themselves just as monkeys wouldn't if there wasn't man on earth.

You are, once again, assuming such would be in the same format as that of Christians or others who worship a supernatural deity.


Again, known entity, AND they don't, based on the definition, worship the species.

Yes, they do. Based on the definition, they do have a sacred personage (that would be man). They hold the logic and reason of man in as high esteem as Christians do the Word of God.


It may always have and is constantly developing.

Developing or not, it's still man's reasoning and logic, not God, that they hold in highest esteem.
12771  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Nutrition, Products & Supplements / Re: WWE Star John Cena Now With Ultimate Nutrition? on: August 22, 2008, 12:49:22 PM
If the guy was able to increase sales of supplements so well then why did ABB piledrive his contract when they had him? I think wrestlers give no credibility to supplements for those that are seriously committed to building their physique. Sure they're famous but so is Michael Jackson.

Did ABB fire Cena? Perhaps, Ultimate Nutrition simply bought out Cena's contract with ABB.

Something similar happened in the 90s with Mike Francois. For two years, he was with Champion Nutrition, particularly hyping its MET MAX supplements. Then, he ended up with Weider. I later read in MuscleMag, that Weider bought out Francois' contract for $100,000 to get the 1995 Arnold Schwarzenegger Champion to jump ship.

12772  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 22, 2008, 12:34:24 PM
It doesn't back anything up.  You are taking statements out of context and attaching your own meaning to them to validate your assertions.  It's not even related to worship.

what does:  only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment?

What does it have to do with worship?  If i want to knowledge about a subject or of a thing I'd look to that subject or thing.  That doesn't mean i worship it.  That's really silly.

I can see why you think it, but it's not reality.  I see that your life hinges on the idea of the GOD of the Bible being everything.  You cannot fathom life in any aspect with out an ultimate being as identified in the Bible.

And the atheists' life hinges on the idea that nothing but the natural phenomema exists. If there's any hierachy or order, then it's merely a natural one. Therefore, the highest entity in that order is the ultimate authority. Take a wild guess as to who the highest entity is.


So you have to construct a connection, no matter how ambiguous or irrelevant, to make sense of how anyone else might see things differently to justify your assertions. 

It's cool.  I get it and respect you for it. 

But don't for one minute try and pass off what you put in bold as worship.

That's been answered pretty well in other posts on this thread.  I even provided you a standard. 

And statement 1 and 7 don't mean anything close to what atheist do.



I don't have to construct anything, as the words are there in black and white. They belief that there's nothing beyond the natural and that "Humankind (man) is on his own". If that's the case, why is there such a problem with stating that man is effectively worshipping himself? He believes in nothing he can't detect with his senses or can't grasp with his own logic and reason. He thinks that he is the highest being. Man's logic and reason set the bar for morality, right and wrong, "good" and "evil".

He ain't getting his moral compass from sheep, cattle, and the fowls of the air.

12773  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, on: August 22, 2008, 12:03:30 PM
Why must there necessarily be something to abandon?  You cannot fashion a belief out of something that doesn't exist in your heart.  Plain and simple.

I made that remark, because you said that some of the atheist groups were more political in nature, specifically to oppose the "religious right". Again, there are a number of groups that oppose the "religious right" but DO NOT claim that there's no God. In fact, some of these folks proclaim quite adamantly that they are Christians.






You're making me work MCWAY  Grin but it's okay.  I like new learning experiences.  Smiley

QUEENS, NY -- This one is totally political, of which much I don't agree with, but anyway.
http://humanistcenterqueens.blogspot.com/

CT --  I would totally spend evenings with these people!!!
http://www.cthumanist.org/about.html

JOISEY  Grin -- More of a family humanism group.
http://www.njhn.org/index.php

I'm afraid you've linked more of the same stuff that Bum did. The "Joisey" group, for instance. It may be a family humanism group, but check out the very first paragraph at the top of the home page:

The New Jersey Humanist Network is a vibrant and growing community of secular humanists. Humanism is a democratic and ethical life-stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives.   We believe that virtues like morality, kindness, justice and generosity derive from natural human values and reason, and are realized fully only when free from belief in supernatural powers and a spiritual afterlife.  Please consider joining us for our free monthly meetings in Bridgewater.

That's another example of what I've been saying. These humanists see THEMSELVES (man) as the ultimate authority on morality and are joined by the common doctrine/belief that there is no God.




I just don't see this "mock church" aspect with services and fake bishops that you and BB point to with sneering dismissiveness.  The last one appears to have more "atheist" teachings within its concept, but as Ozmo says, parents do need to teach their children morality in some fashion after all.  I could also ask you why so many sermons at any given moment focus so much on the "godless" and alleged "sinners." Why does Ben Stein need to make anti-evolution flicks, and go on religious talk shows to spew stuff like "God is love, science leads to killing people?" With two thirds of the US population being Christian, surely you have nothing to fear.

I only have a few mins and will answer the other stuff later, but usmokepole, Ozmo and Decker have done a good job of trying to explain it.  I think you're just so inured to the idea of obeying a great father that you can't imagine morality without supernatural punishment or reward. It does exist though.

With regards to the Palo Alto center, I was making a joke, because the last name of the guy who runs the place happens to be "Bishop". How ironic is that?

As for Stein's statement, that's rather silly. Science is simply the study of nature, God's nature. It has been used to do what Jesus charged His disciples to do: Heal the sick; clothe the naked; feed the hungry; and, execute what Christians have coined the Great Commission, "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost".

Christians have been charged to spread the Gospel. Scientific discovery has aided GREATLY to that end.



12774  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda on: August 22, 2008, 11:48:38 AM
That's an assumption you are making FOR atheists.  Show me where atheists say that.  We are back to you putting a false condition on something to make your point make sense.

That's not a false condition. Here's an excerpt from one of the links that Beach Bum posted (www.atheists.org)

Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter, and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be. Humankind is on its own.

The following definition of Atheism was given to the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), to remove reverential Bible reading and oral unison recitation of the Lord's Prayer in the public schools.

“Your petitioners are Atheists and they define their beliefs as follows. An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.

An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.

An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow mancan he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.


That pretty much backs what I've said from the start. Atheists put themselves (MAN) as the top hiearchy, as far as authority is concerned.


I don't believe the God that's identified in the bible is the source of morality.  But that's another discussion, a horse well beaten to death by us.

That is another story. But, it goes back to my earlier statements. Atheists don't believe that God (whether you think it's the one defined in the Bible or not) is the source of moral authority. Once again, the question is asked: Who/What is this moral authority or standard for atheists?


"a" (a sacred personage) denotes singularity.  It does not denote an entire species.

in definition 7 it's the same.

In definition 10, it's a general statement.  I view my children and parents with "reverence or regard"   Does that mean worship them instead of God?

Definition 10 is a general statement, which is why I added definitions 1 and 7, to specify it.
12775  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Religious Debates & Threads / Re: In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda on: August 22, 2008, 09:07:23 AM
Why does a martyr do what he does?  "Good feelings", to me, indicate some sort of psychological satisfaction in doing something.  That would include dying for a cause--running into a burning building to save a child, throwing oneself on a grenade, or just plain sacrifice for a cause bigger than one's self.

There's a reason it's called "sacrifice", Decker. It's because it DOES NOT feel good. It hurts: physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically, financially, or any combination thereof.

Anyone can do something good, when it feels good. How many can do something good, when it hurts? Can you love someone who doesn't love you back?

Can you help someone, knowing they don't or won't appreciate it? Can you give, knowing that it's going to put you in financial strain?
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