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20026  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 09:10:58 PM
im not asking you to decide for all of us im simply asking for your opinion?...actually we are all simply made from microscopic cells...If you have no logical reasoning for when life begins then i can apply your false logic and justify infanticide as well...basically what i feel i get from you is that the fetus isnt a child until its born? is that pretty close?

I've already given you my opinion

decide for yourself and mind your own business
20027  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 08:58:31 PM
and as ive already pointed out several times since my stance has a logical basis for my belief my belief is indeed more credible then your definition infantcide is ok, i could kill you now and it would simply be an understand the problem of not defining when life begins?...[b]im not by any means saying im right or youre wrong on this issue[/b] im simply trying to open up a discussion about it and get others to understand the fallacy of some of their beliefs...if you use false logic to defend this then please dont complain about gays not being able to marry, glass ceilings, unequal pay for same jobs etc...b/c those all have legitimate arguements but if your ok with false logic in this sense then you should be ok with it in others...

tony - NO I don't understand what your problem is

why must I DECIDE where life begins?

NO you can not kill me now and it would simply be an abortion

I am not a cluster of microscopic cells

I am also not a horribly malformed fetus

how does any sane mind draw these conclusions?
20028  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 08:35:31 PM
tony - here is my answer to your question from ~ 3 pages ago:

life begins when you're in my address book

seriously, I don't know exactly when life begins and neither do you.

that doesn't mean I have to adopt your default position

here is my belief

If you're against abortion then don't get one

mind your business and leave other law-abiding citizens alone
20029  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 08:24:47 PM
the problem is you killed a child that was created through a consensual act knowing that it might result in pregnancy...if you dont want it or cant afford a child put the child up for adoption its as simple as that, its better that the child get to live and be adopted then to die...i really dont understand how you dont understand the inequality of the law that gives women the right to abort but not men...please dont ever bitch about laws being unfair...

there was no child

let's pretend this woman had the abortion in the first 6 weeks
20030  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 08:20:19 PM
i completely agree with you the only difference is you make an exception for the women and i dont your basically saying its ok for the women to not be responsible but not the man, you agree?

when do you believe life begins and why?
you do understand that an arbitrary date leaves the door open for infantcide and justifiable homicide dont you?

by "not be responsible" do you mean choose to have an abortion?

I've answered your second question already
20031  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 07:28:46 PM
Straw Man, it's ridiculous to think that a bunch of guys on a bodybuilding board would have a clue as to the million and one things that can go wrong in a pregnancy. These are guys who think that going on a strict diet for three months is hell and back. But that a pregnancy is an inconvenience.

These are the same guys who say that abortion is murder, but it's "okay" if rape or incest is involved. WTF. If it's murder it's murder. Who cares if your wife got raped. Or if one twin is dying in the womb and sucking the life out of the mother and the other twin. Either you play God or you don't. And if it is truly murder, they should be advocating life in the clink and/or the death penalty for anyone who wants to have an abortion. It's mostly about control of women, not really that it's murder. The OT and the Talmud pretty much indicate that God was alright with abortion and that people only being living once God has given them the breath of life.

In the case of the Tiller murder, the dude who did it obviously felt no control over his own life... his wife left him, and so he projected his own issues onto women assuming responsibility and control over their own lives. I don't think he murdered Tiller for religious reasons. It's far more visceral than that.

great assessment of the situation
20032  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 06:50:47 PM
as soon as that fetus is deemed to be alive its not soley her body and therefore the decision should be taken out of her hands unless its deemed that her health is at risk...This isnt as simple as saying your taking control over someones body we arent running around just grabing random ppl and taking control. When you consentually have sex with the knowledge that you may get pregnant you give up that right as you know that is a possible outcome and you accept that as a possible risk. There are plenty of laws out there that control my body and yours straw right now.

let's pretend two people have consensual sex and the woman becomes pregnant.

Neither want a kid and they don't even care that much about each other.  Moreover, neither is emotionally or financially able to take care of the kid.

They both agree that she should get an abortion.

What's the problem?

Let's say alter that and say that he wants a kid  and she doesn't.   Everything else is the same (can't afford it, can't take care of it etc..)

She decides to get an abortion

What's the problem?
20033  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 06:45:50 PM
you think you should have control over another persons finances? or their pay check?

you still havent answered any of my questions straw not a single one, why is that?

I think if you're the father of a child you should take responsibility for that child.  If you don't do it voluntarily then the court should make you do it.  If they don't then the rest of us have to pay for your kid.

what question are you talking about? 

20034  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 06:05:52 PM
LOL percieved? hahahahahah you really think its fair for a women to have the right to abortion but the man to not?

Weve had this conversation straw i agree a real man would never walk away from their child that being said A REAL WOMEN WOULD NEVER WALK AWAY FROM THEIR CHILD EITHER regardless of the situation...

I have no anger i find it ignorant that ppl are in favor of a womens right to choose but not a mans and see nothing wrong with it. Todays society with womens issues much like with racial issues has had a backlash of ignorant laws due to past behavior and way of is supposed to be about equality but i guess only when it suits your agenda huh?

I thought we already agreed that life was not fair

you're perfectly free to see something wrong with it but what do you propose is the "solution".   Do you think you should have control over another persons body?  If the answer is yes then do you think someone should have control over your body too?
20035  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 02:08:09 PM
you could just as easily be a 240 gimmick account you spin others words and leave out pertinent information, never answer questions, and deflect points...

I already agreed with you, abortion is basically murder imho in all cases, that being said i dont think we as ppl should be able to tell a person who had it forced upon them what to do its a horrible decision to have to make i wouldnt wish it upon anyone, when you have consenual sex even if its with birth control you accept the possibility of pregnancy meaning you should own up to your responsibility bc it was not forced upon you.

Now please just please answer one of my questions...

when do you believ life begins and why? this is very pertinent to our conversation.
you think its fair for women to have an abortion but not allow men to walk away? does this sound like equal rights to you?or any of the other questions ive posed to you

You keep harping on this perceived inequity that a man can't walk away.

My question is what kind of man would walk away from his own flesh and blood ....regardless of what the mother did.

It seems like you might have some anger toward women
20036  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 01:53:10 PM
More patients of Dr. Tiller.

I truly hope no one on this site has to face the choice that Dr. Tiller's patients had to deal with:

20037  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 10:21:08 AM
Patients remember Dr. Tiller:

A few blog posts and comments from Dr. Tiller’s former patients:

A Heartbreaking Choice:

Up until the moment I sat across the desk from my OB, I held out hope that he would give my son some chance to beat the odds. I couldn’t believe it when he said that there was no chance that he would live very long after he was born. Since I had not even entertained that idea, I was even less prepared for the next thing he had to say, but those words are burned into my memory forever.

“There is no one in Texas who can do this procedure. The only doctor you can go to is in Wichita, Kansas. I talked to him. He seems very nice. Here is his number.” That was it. There was nothing more he could do for us. I could barely stand up when we rode down the elevator.

Even then, I didn’t connect this doctor to the story on the news. It wasn’t until I was on the phone with them, after we went through the procedure, the schedule, the cost, and all the other details that the woman said, “I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but the doctor was shot last month.”

If I wasn’t so numb, I may have screamed, but instead it just washed over me. I couldn’t speak. She explained that there would be protesters. She may as well have been saying “blah blah blah blah.” It just didn’t sink in. This was something on the news far away in another state, not something that was part of my life.

A few days later, we were on our way. It rained the whole drive up. I told my husband to turn off the Oldies station because I didn’t want to always associate Oldies with this drive. We checked into our hotel, a chain that I will never, ever stay at again because of the memories it brings back. We drove by the clinic just to make sure we knew where it was. Seeing it at night brought us a false sense of security.

The next morning there were throngs of protesters. They had graphic posters. They yelled at us and aimed a video camera at our car. I was shaking all over as I had to show ID and go through a metal detector before I was admitted. All the time I was thinking, “How can those people be yelling at me? I don’t want to be here. I don’t have a choice. Don’t they understand?”

(Full piece here).

Another Heartbreaking Choice:

The week we spent in Kansas was one of the toughest weeks of my life, one that I will never forget, nor will I choose to forget, but through my tears of sadness, love helped us through.

We returned home just two days ago, and the pain is ever so fresh, and the memories vivid. A piece of me doesn’t want the pain to ever go away because it is one way for me to stay connected to my son. My beautiful, angelic son, Nathan Jack. Seeing him was one of the hardest things I have ever done, not being able to watch him grow up, or call me “Mommy” is something I will always grieve over, but knowing that we protected and saved him from an existence of hospital stays was our responsibility as loving parents.

We are forever grateful to the Women’s Health Center, the amazing doctor and all staff for being our heaven when we were living in hell.

And another:

I was almost 26 weeks. I showed up for my ultrasound by myself. I was scanned for almost 2 hours. This is when my life forever changed. The scan showed that her little brain was severely calcified, parts were not symmetrical and there was fluid. The doctor took me into a room to talk to me. I told her “please just tell me the truth I need to know.” The Doctor said that she had no idea what this meant but that she felt something was terribly wrong. Within two weeks her brain had gone from “normal” to massive problems. I was sent up to Genetics. The counselor told me that the genetic doctor wanted to talk to me. I requested that they wait until my husband got there. The conversation with this doctor was the same, she felt that something was terribly wrong, but they had no idea what it was. “This looks like the tip of the iceberg” we were told.

The hardest thing I’ve ever had to do in my life was to decide to terminate this pregnancy. This all happened on a Wednesday.

Friday we had to go and talk with some perinatologists. They told us that they had never seen this before and that they could not tell us what the outcome would be. We did not even get a percentage of what her life would be like. They told us that she possibly could die in utero, die shortly after birth, or be a vegetable. They told us that we could wait another two weeks and have another scan and possibly an MRI. How could I go on another day? It killed me to feel her move around inside. This was so awful.

We had another appointment with the doctor that performed the terminations. We were told that with my conditions and the lateness of the pregnancy he did not feel he could give me the care that I required. That’s when we were referred to the Women’s Clinic in Wichita, Kansas.

I was 27 weeks by this point. I was terrified. The moment I met the doctor, all of that ended. He was a wonderful and loving man. I came in on Monday and gave birth to our baby girl on Friday. We were able to hold her after, and say our goodbyes. That doctor will always be in my heart.

This happened two weeks ago and sometimes I feel like this isn’t real. I miss feeling her inside me. I miss singing or talking to her, touching my belly and have her respond. The hardest part now is that I will never get to see her smile or laugh or to watch her grow up A day does not pass that I don’t think of her. I miss her so much.

More Kansas stories here.

A comment here:

I looked at the woman as she cried about the baby she wanted so badly, & looked in horror at the films showing the cancer eating the child alive. The pain this child must be in & the cries of the parents as they don’t want to let go. Then I hear Dr. Tiller say…”You are so amazing…all the pain your baby is in & you are going to selflessly take that away. You are being strong for him. You are giving him peace he will never know.” 2 days later I cleaned & dressed that little boy before the parents viewed him. The ghastly tumor that had grown through his chest & out his spine a horrific parasite, & a stark reminder of the life he could never have. I watched this little angle at peace & I cried. For all of them. And I felt blessed to be a part of such a wonderful man, who could look in the face of utter hopelessness, & give them comfort. That child was taken home & lovingly laid to rest. That day is how I will remember Dr. Tiller. May his family find the peace he gave so openly.

Another at Balloon Juice:

In 1994 my wife and I found out that she was pregnant. The pregnancy was difficult and unusually uncomfortable but her doctor repeatedly told her things were fine. Sometime early in the 8th month my wife, an RN who at the time was working in an infertility clinic asked the Dr. she was working for what he thought of her discomfort. He examined her and said that he couldn’t be certain but thought that she might be having twins. We were thrilled and couldn’t wait to get a new sonogram that hopefully would confirm his thoughts. Two days later our joy was turned to unspeakable sadness when the new sonogram showed conjoined twins. Conjoined twins alone is not what was so difficult but the way they were joined meant that at best only one child would survive the surgery to separate them and the survivor would more than likely live a brief and painful life filled with surgery and organ transplants. We were advised that our options were to deliver into the world a child who’s life would be filled with horrible pain and suffering or fly out to Wichita Kansas and to terminate the pregnancy under the direction of Dr. George Tiller.

We made an informed decision to go to Kansas. One can only imagine the pain borne by a woman who happily carries a child for 8 months only to find out near the end of term that the children were not to be and that she had to make the decision to terminate the pregnancy and go against everything she had been taught to believe was right. This was what my wife had to do. Dr. Tiller is a true American hero. The nightmare of our decision and the aftermath was only made bearable by the warmth and compassion of Dr. Tiller and his remarkable staff. Dr. Tiller understood that this decision was the most difficult thing that a woman could ever decide and he took the time to educate us and guide us along with the other two couples who at the time were being forced to make the same decision after discovering that they too were carrying children impacted by horrible fetal anomalies. I could describe in great detail the procedures and the pain and suffering that everyone is subjected to in these situations. However, that is not the point of the post. We can all imagine that this is not something that we would wish on anyone. The point is that the pain and suffering were only mitigated by the compassion and competence of Dr. George Tiller and his staff. We are all diminished today for a host of reasons but most of all because a man of great compassion and courage has been lost to the world.

And The George Tiller I Knew at Daily Kos.

These are just a handful of stories, but they help to reveal the complexity of what Dr. Tiller did. The mainstream media has cast him as a “controversial late-term abortion provider,” which is technically accurate. But those late-term abortions he provided were for women in desperate and often tragic situations — women with health complications that made pregnancy dangerous, or women whose much-wanted pregnancies took a turn for the worst. Anti-choicers have latched onto the fact that Tiller’s clinic provided funeral services — if that’s the case, they point out, how is it not clear that Dr. Tiller was killing? In fact, those services were part of the healing process for many families who came to Dr. Tiller in one of the darkest moments of their lives, and who were making unthinkably difficult choices. It’s a tragedy that Dr. Tiller was one of only three physicians providing the late-term therapeutic abortion services that he did. It’s shameful that anti-choicers cast him as a “murderer” for helping women in need. I’ll say it again: The responsibility for George Tiller’s death surely falls on the shoulders of the person who actually pulled the trigger. But when pro-life groups did everything but give him a gun, their hands are hardly clean.
20038  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 10:13:57 AM
Tiller was doing abortions until the 9th month,hence the term,partial birth abortion.Is that ok?

YES it is in cases of where the mothers life is at risk
20039  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: How Unions and Pensions killed GM - good read. on: June 03, 2009, 09:29:08 AM
Unions have a place but defined benefit pensions should be eliminated for every type of job, most especially government jobs.

There is no way in hell that any company or government should be paying people a salary after they retire.

The better alternative a defined contribution plan where the employer contributes "X" dollars every year while the person is an employee.  These $$'s are segregated and protected in case of bankruptcy but after the employee stops working the employer does not pay another penny.   

This should apply to ALL government workers (city, state, federal)
20040  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 07:19:02 AM
LOL you have got to be shitting me(no pun intended) comparing a unborn child to shit floating in a toilet  Roll Eyes ive heard it all from you disappointed  Sad

flushing your toilet is never considered a crime either so thats a horrible analogy...murder is a crime and if the child is technically alive at 2 weeks or 6 or 8 isnt that murder?

there is no "child" at 2 weeks or even 6-8 weeks so no it's not murder
20041  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 03, 2009, 07:17:06 AM
again my stances actually have some logic behind them with your stances which isnt a stance there is no logic so ill go ahead and say mines a little more credible then yours at this might wanna go ahead and think about it b/c with no real cut off date then whats the difference between abortion and infantcide?

What is your logic? 

You say life begins at conception but that's just an arbitrary judgement on your part.  There is nothing at conception that we woudl call life.

I'll pick an arbitrary point and say Life begins at birth or life begins 171 days after the formation of an embryo.

there, now I've picked an arbitrary point just like you have.  do you feel better now?
20042  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 02, 2009, 10:56:04 PM
have you ever seen an ultrasound in person? as early as 8 weeks even?


look, if I were in the situation where someone I was involved with was contemplating abortion I wouldn't take the decision lightly at all and I don't know what I would do.  It wouldn't even matter what "I" would do because I'll never be pregnant.  These issues are personal and if you think life begins at conception then that's your perogative.  Neither your nor I have the right to tell anyone how to conduct their life.  

We as a human race have very slippery morals concerning "life".  We allow people to die daily from simple ailments.  We allow our government to kill thousands of people in our name.  We allow people on this planet to die of hunger every day.  We're talking about fully formed human beings who will experience real and totally unnecessary pain, suffering and ultimately death.   Lectures about the sanctity of life or religious supersticion over something we don't even understand don't have much influence on me.  You of course are free to believe whatever you want.
20043  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 02, 2009, 10:31:26 PM
I think this commentary is several years old. 

Atheism Has Fueled Greatest Mass Murders In World History

By Rev. Louis P. Sheldon
Chairman, Traditional Values Coalition

As we approach Christmas, the one day a year that we set aside to celebrate the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, we are hearing noises among intellectuals and rock stars about the “dangers” of Christianity to world peace and cultural tolerance.

The most recent attack on organized religion came from homosexual rock star Sir Elton John, who thinks that organized religion—specifically Christianity—turns people into “hateful lemmings.” According to John, “I think religion has always tried to turn hatred towards gay people. Religion promotes the hatred and spite against gays.” His solution: “ban religion completely, even though there are some wonderful things about it.”

Atheist Richard Dawkins, writing in his new book, “The God Delusion,” claims that many of the world’s conflicts around the world are due to the murderous religious impulses. Columnist Robert Kuttner claims that “The Crusades slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus. The Inquisition brought the torture and murder of millions more. After Martin Luther, Christians did bloody battle with other Christians for another three centuries.”

Dinesh D’Souza, a Fellow at the Hoover Institution recently pointed out the glaring errors in such statements in the Christian Science Monitor.  He noted, for example, that the Spanish Inquisition sentenced to death approximately 10,000 individuals. Some historians claim another 100,000 died in jail.

One of liberalism’s favorite anti-Christian boogeyman is the Salem witch trials. How many actually died as a result of those trials: fewer than 25.

And what of the Crusades? Most Americans probably have a negative view of the Crusades as an attempt by Christians to conquer peaceful Muslims. The opposite is true. British historian Paul Johnson has observed: “The Crusades, far from being an outrageous prototype of Western imperialism, as taught in most schools, were a mere episode in a struggle that lasted 1,400 years, and were one of the few occasions when Christians took the offensive to regain ‘occupied territories’ of the Holy Land.” The Crusades were launched to regain land conquered by Muslims and to prevent Muslim armies from invading and conquering any more nations! It was a defensive war against Muslim imperialism.

The Christian-haters should turn their attentions to militant Islam and Atheism as the most serious dangers to the world.

The fact is that while religious wars have been fought for centuries, militant atheism has slaughtered more people than religious zealots ever have. The greatest mass murders in history have been committed not by Christians but by Communists Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung. More than 100 million have died at the hands of these militant atheists since the early 20th century.

And, one of the first genocides committed in the 20th century was by Turkish Muslims against Armenians between 1915 and 1918. An estimated 1.5 million Christian Armenians were killed during that slaughter.

Elton John, Robert Kuttner, Richard Dawkins and others may want to do more fact-checking before they launch into new tirades against Christianity.

The fact is that Christians have been at the forefront of expanding and defending human freedom around the globe ever since the First Century Church was founded. Christians, for example, were the ones who campaigned against the gladiator games in ancient Rome as well as against the slave trade in Britain and in the United States. It has been our Christian compassion that has led us into wars around the world to defend the downtrodden and to preserve freedom for individuals. (Alvin J. Schmidt, Ph.D., clearly explains this in his excellent history book, “How Christianity Changed The World.”) 

Elton John’s ability to speak freely and attack Christianity in Britain is due to the fact that Britain has based its laws upon the Ten Commandments and Christian principles about free speech and freedom of conscience. John might not fare so well under Sharia law nor would his music be freely marketed under a Communist dictatorship.

As we celebrate the birth of the Prince of Peace, all of us should keep these truths in mind.

still as wrong as the day it was written.  

Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung were not killing in the name of atheism.  

They were dictators wiping out dissidents and perceived enemies

I know religious folk can't understand the distinction so we'll probably see this posted again and again
20044  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Abortion doctor shot to death in church. on: June 02, 2009, 10:21:24 PM
yes and no ive had this conversation with you more then once straw i actually have some logical basis for my beliefs where as you have never given any for yours...

life could begin when electrical activity starts in the brain as death is technically when electrical activity stops.

Life could begin at conception as this is when the process of life begins...

when do you believe life begins and why?

life begins when you're in my address book

seriously, I don't know exactly when life begins and neither do you.

that doesn't mean I have to adopt your default position

here is my belief

If you're against abortion then don't get one

mind your business and leave other law-abiding citizens alone
20045  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: army recruiter shot and killed on: June 02, 2009, 11:31:53 AM
So it was a 'hate crime' then?

no idea at all.

I'm not a fan of the "hate crime" designation.  I don't see that it really matters.  If you murder someone that why does it make any difference or why is it more significant what the motivation is
20046  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Chinese company buys Hummer on: June 02, 2009, 10:45:56 AM
Regardless, why dont we do what is necessary to make Hummers here??? 

The chinese are going to make it and still sell the vehicles and profits go to the Chinese. 

You dont see the hypocricy in this from this Admn?Huh

I'm sure if they could they would

do you know for a fact that the the Administration or the 31 year old you're so pissed about are the ones that brokered the deal
20047  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Chinese company buys Hummer on: June 02, 2009, 10:34:06 AM

 G.M. said the deal would save about 3,000 jobs in the United States, including those at its 153 domestic dealerships, and that Hummer would remain based in the United States.

yeah this really sucks
20048  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Who killed George Tiller? on: June 02, 2009, 10:22:54 AM
Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
No, they just blog stuff like the following after they didn't get their way last Nov. in California:

      "Can someone in CA please go burn down the Mormon temples there, PLEASE. I mean seriously. DO IT."
      "I'm going to give them something to be f--ing scared of....I'm a radical who is now on a mission to make them all pay for what they've done."
      "Burn their f--ing churches to the ground, and then tax the charred timbers."
      "I hope the No on 8 people have a long list and long knives."
      "I swear, I'd murder people with my bare hands this morning."
      "Trust me. I've got a big list of names of mormons and catholics [sic] that were big supporters of Prop 8....As far as mormons and catholics...I warn them to watch their backs."


Are those comments by Code Pink (don't know much about them) or comments posted on a blog in response to a story.   If the latter then I'd put them in the same category of comments on Daily Kos, O'Reilly, Limbaughs blogs i.e. unless they come directly from the person or group then I would not assign random anonymous comments to the person or group.  
20049  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Great Interview - worth the 5 minutes of your time on: June 02, 2009, 09:53:55 AM
Fine, I will blame Olbermann, Maddow, and the rest of the left wing clowns who made this story into more than it really was. 

if that makes you feel better go right ahead
20050  Getbig Main Boards / Politics and Political Issues Board / Re: Great Interview - worth the 5 minutes of your time on: June 02, 2009, 09:40:18 AM
Maddow and Olbermann have been pounding the torture story for months on a nightly basis.  Thus, maybe this shooter saw these stories and got upset and this triggered it.

This is the same nonsense thatt he left wants to accuse oreilly of right???

that's a stretch but I can see where one might like to try to make that correlation

I don't blame O'Reilly although I think his rhetoric is reprehensible. 

I do blame Randall Terry and his ilk (the radicalized religious right)
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