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1  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Random pics on: April 08, 2014, 03:45:15 AM

How do you take a shit wearing one of these?  Huh

I think you have to take it off.
2  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: GoDaddy Getbig commercial! Kali shows he can jog! on: February 02, 2014, 08:15:46 PM
U think Jeff Long would have leaned out a little for this.

I was up for this commercial and didn't get it.  They gave us like a weeks notice after auditioning.
3  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Which pro do you most resemble structurally? on: October 14, 2013, 10:45:32 AM
I've often wondered this and I don't know.  My delts and abs are strong.  I feel my quads and biceps are my weaker bodyparts.  I have relatively wide shoulders but not super narrow hips.  
4  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Is Alex Smith not worth a 2nd pk? on: March 02, 2013, 05:45:48 PM
Remember that shitty QB on the Falcons who got traded to Green Bay? shit he fucking sucked with Atlanta. What was his name again? Oh yeah.

Brett Favre

Some players take time to adjust. It doesn't matter what you were 5 years ago, or 2 years ago, or even today. It's what you are tomorrow.

Favre didn't really suck.  He was taken in the 2nd and traded for a 1st after the first season.  They were stacked at QB or so they thought.  He threw 4 passes his rookie year.  He wasn't given much of a chance.  Had they known where Chris Miller and Billy Joe Tolliver's career's were going to go they probably would have held onto him.
5  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Avoid Personal Trainers that Lack the CSCS Certification on: August 22, 2012, 03:50:29 PM
I'm CSCS.  I'm not a CPT.  I didn't plan on being a personal trainer.  I planned on being a strength coach which the cscs was created for. It allows me to personal train where the CPT wouldn't help my credentials for applying for a college.  That being said there are good trainers that never finished high school and bad ones that have even more school and certifications than I do.  I wouldn't base my decision solely on one aspect but I've never been able to afford a trainer anyway.
6  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Jan Tana - Tanning Coat too dark? on: May 18, 2012, 10:25:54 AM
We have to be so dark because the lights are so bright.  A normal tan gets washed out.
7  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Zack Khan, Ben Pakulski, and Aaron Singerman Train on: April 01, 2012, 06:25:01 AM
Aaron or any girl in that gym could hang with them with this workout.  The only way this could be described as intense is if you are referring to muscular endurance.  Also I like how the camera man would point out Aaron's form yet not the others.  Just because you are bigger doesn't mean that flaring your elbows out will work your triceps more.
8  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: WHY WAS DORIAN BETTER THAN RONNIE? on: March 11, 2012, 06:07:30 AM
Dorian did have better abs but Ronnie's misshapen 4 pack wasn't hard to beat.  Dorian really flowed early on where Ronnie has always kind of looked like he was put together with various parts like Frankenstein's Monster.
9  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Is the 2012 Branch Warren better than Nasser was? on: March 06, 2012, 10:21:40 PM
10  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: banged a half italian half white girl tonight on: January 08, 2012, 05:47:21 AM
What was the other half?
11  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / 2012 NPC Contest Info, Q&A, and more / Re: 943 competitors at the NPC Nationals this weekend! on: November 19, 2011, 03:17:41 PM
is he a Super?

Light heavy.  He's probably 5'5"
12  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / 2012 NPC Contest Info, Q&A, and more / Re: 1,000 competitors at the NPC Nationals this weekend! on: November 18, 2011, 02:22:37 PM
I competed against him earlier this year.  His name is Corey I think.  He won the Coleman.
13  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: What do you bodybuilders drink when going out? on: August 14, 2011, 05:40:28 AM
I generally drink water.
14  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / 2012 NPC Contest Info, Q&A, and more / Re: NPC Branch Warren 2011 on: July 10, 2011, 06:01:28 PM
15  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Tanktop gone too far? on: July 10, 2011, 05:38:29 PM
I like the fact that he cut up a tall t.  He was retarded for buying the shirt in the first place.
16  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: gh15..... is kevin levrone here 8 procent??? on: June 30, 2011, 11:11:37 PM
The skinfold test takes water into account.  Only if you are dehydrated or holding a huge amount of water will it skew the test.  A skinfold test of 7% isn't usually 7% on DEXA scan. It would actually be more.
17  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Kai Guesposing at the 2011 "Adela Garcia Classic" June 25th, 2011. on: June 27, 2011, 01:32:26 PM
I was at the show so at least one guy in the audience wasn't gay.  Dexter posed too.  He's got much better lines.
18  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Is leaving 1 plate on each side of the bar... on: June 19, 2011, 03:19:57 PM
If it was acceptable then the bar would weigh 135.  I'm a trainer and most of my clients can't do 135.  It is annoying for me to spend extra time asking the lazy guy that left his weight on to leave the area as he found it.
19  Getbig Misc Discussion Boards / Mixed Martial Arts (MMA/UFC) / Re: Overeem - not impressed on: June 19, 2011, 07:17:49 AM
Due to each fighter's strategy this wasn't going to be an exciting fight.  One fighter wanted it on the ground and the other wanted to stand.  Overeem didn't want to make the mistake he did the first time around or the mistake that Fedor made.  He didn't and won.  He allowed Werdum to land some strikes because he was more worried about Werdum taking him down.  In a fight against Dos Santos, Overeem would be much less worried about getting submitted so he may be able to be more effective striking or at the very least defending strikes.
20  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Only uncrowned Mr Olympia is Victor Martinez....Shawn, Flex and Levrone never. on: June 17, 2011, 03:22:07 PM
powerbar are you slightly retarded?

I'm actually quite intelligent.  What is it that doesn't make sense to you?
21  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Only uncrowned Mr Olympia is Victor Martinez....Shawn, Flex and Levrone never. on: June 16, 2011, 05:03:02 PM
Well it's obvious ( again entertaining you did compete ) that you didn't ask the right questions but I'm leaning more towards your comprehension plain sucks.

What do you want me to ask?  Iím actually having dinner with a judge next weekend.


See you think typing in circles is gonna save you and it wont. I've explained numerous times what part of the criteria YOU did NOT know either one of three things , 1) you're trolling , 2) you're not and 3) or you're dense . And I'm sure you bought videos by a judge and it explained everything which is exactly why your scratching your head trying to figure out how Dorian can win a symmetry round , again if the criteria was explained to you then you have lackadaisical comprehension abilities because if you knew YOU WOULD NOT be asking.

Apparently the judge didn't explain that dry muscles are ' flat ' muscles 

Iím not typing in circles unless you see that I keep typing the same thing and you donít really have an adequate response.  I also donít need to be saved from anything.  Iíve won this debate if it ever was one.  This is just the aftermath.  Youíve assumed much and comprehended little.  Iím not scratching my head as to why Dorian won with straight firsts a lot of times.  Iíve given you the reason why.  I havenít really asked you anything besides to make a point and you refuse.  Iíve tried different ways to explain things to you.  Also if a judge said ďdry muscleĒ I donít need to ask them if it is flat.  Chances are they donít have degrees in Nutrition or Kinesiology. 

I touched on symmetry and what it meant , having a small waist and hips , small joints , classic taper it ALSO includes muscle balance & proportion , muscle length , torso length , arm length in relation to the torso , structure NOT according to you a textbook definition of right/left exactness   I guess the judge didn't explain to you that on the tapes either   wait maybe he did and you just didn't get it , which very well may be the case because there is a LOT I've typed that you still can't seem to get.

I canít seem to get a lot of things you type because you arenít that intelligent.  When talking to retarded people how much are you ever going to understand of what they say?  They miss something initially which makes the task difficult.  Do you realize that your shoddy definition of symmetry is similar to my other definition?  Flow is reached by having those things you typed.  Shawn was superior in just about every one of those things you listed.  It is nice to know that you finally agree that Shawn was more symmetrical.  Why couldnít you have done that in the beginning?  I guess it just wouldnít have been that much fun.  Also do you see how you downplay symmetry and proportion yet bring up how height is a factor?

What's funny about your statement is you claim ' Typing just doesn't get it done. ' and what do you do? just type hahahahaha and you have the audacity to type I don't understand the concept of debate and fail to understand logic hehehehehehehehe

I compete.  You just type.  You canít type so much that you dehydrate the muscle.  Understand now?

oh because it wasn't mention specifically it doesn't mean anything? the irony is you agree with me height is a factor which is why no very tall guys are champions , I never said it was a major factor but it does come into play , ever here the OLD expression a good big man will always beat a good small one? ever wonder where that came from? How about the fact that no really short guys ever won the Olympia? height comes into play with who has a better structure ( symmetry   ) who can carry more muscular bulk

I donít agree with you that onstage, height matters.  Height matters when youíre trying to fill in the gaps or if it leaves you misshapen.  When you get on stage whether the gaps are filled in matters or if you have odd proportions.  How close you come to hitting your head on a doorway shouldnít matter.  Franco and Dickerson were pretty short.


I know you couldn't figure out how Dorian won the symmetry round , and more of his strengths and show in this round which is why he always won it , convincingly

I can figure it out.  They system is flawed.  I know you think the judging is perfect but it isnít.


Has nothing to do with me , it's compared to Dorian which you brought up. Again it's much easier to be 176lbs and ripped than 260lbs. And you never proved ANYTHING you type things , Dorian wasn't always the biggest absolutely nope ( size alone means shit when it's not conditioned ) Dorian wasn't always the best conditioned? ( says you and your proof is you typing it ) and Dorian wasn't always the best at symmetry , depends if you mean by small waist & hips and waist compared to a guy 205lbs you'll get no argument from me , but as far as balance & proportion Dorian's was actually rather great , Dorian was always the best meeting ALL of the criteria better than the guys he competed with , sure some may have met part(s) of it better but considering ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS Dorian meet most of it better than the rest

Well if you think that what hamdullah achieved is easy given your perspective then you have to understand thatís completely meaningless.  You said he was always in the best condition and I said he wasnít.  I listed people that were in better shape and you gave the excuse that they werenít that big.  You lose, plain and simple.  They were in better shape and you couldnít even deny it.  Dorianís balance and proportions still werenít what Shawnís were. 

A concept you can't grasp , still. Playing Devil's advocate let's say Hamdullah did have better conditioning than Dorian and? ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS , does he carry more muscular bulk than Dorian? NO does he have better balance & proportion than Dorian? NO does he look better in all poses compared to Dorian? NO. This is the beauty of ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS no one part of the criteria supersedes the others

You forgot what this was in reference to.  You said Dorian was better in all of the criteria which isnít true.  I didnít say Hamdullah should have beaten him.

Shawn Ray may have had better symmetry than Dorian but does he have better balance & proportion? Shawn is shorter ( height working against him ) he has a longer torso and short legs , he has high calves and narrow clavicles and not much back width , all works against him against someone like Dorian , does he carry more muscular bulk than Dorian? NO how about conditioning? now you could say Shawn comes close to Dorian however does he supplement that conditioning with size and thickness like Dorian? NO again Dorian meets more of the criteria than his contemporaries in any round in any pose and Dorian could still lose a couple of poses and still win the round with a straight firsts and why? both the high and low scores are tossed out ( I'm sure the tapes told you that too )

Shawn doesnít really have narrow clavicles. I canít think of one muscle group on his body that had worse shape than Dorianís.  Why do you keep typing that the high and low scores are taken out?  Does this help any point youíre trying to make?  How many athlete meetings have you gone to?  Well they have one at every competition where they go over how weíll be judged.  Shawn killed Dorian in symmetry which means he had to make up a lot of ground to still win the symmetry round.

Dorian has density , dryness ( not flatness ) and size this is the pinnacle of conditioning , very hard to bring this combo in and Dorian did it year-in-year-out better than his competition , combine that with great balance & proportion and being pretty complete explained why he DOMINATED like no other , you keep insisting you learned the IFBB judging criteria a while ago and you know it yet you don't agree with Dorian winning which proves you don't know how things are judged and are in direct contradiction with the judges , so either way you're fucked.

Dorian without a doubt did as much as he could with what he had.  He just didnít have that much naturally when it came to symmetry compared to Shawn.  Youíre fucked if you admit that in the history of the IFBB even one athlete was judged incorrectly.  I think everyone but you know that there has been some poor judging over the years.

Dorian wasn't much taller than Shawn , but he was really that much bigger especially in 1994 Dorian was 262lbs and Shawn was just 205lbs if that's not much bigger to you than what can I say?   and I'm sure Dorian's bigger bones accounted for the extra weight 

His bigger bones accounted for extra weight but it also gave the illusion that he was smaller than he was against someone with  a smaller bone structure.

Shawn was more aesthetic due to his ' symmetry ' but that's not saying much his balance wasn't spectacular and neither was his structure and that alone doesn't account for much anyway because ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS , Shawn's advantage in symmetry doesn't compensate for his deficiency in other aspects of the criteria compared to Dorian

Shawn wasnít the only competitor that handed Dorian his ass when it came to symmetry.  When you keep typing that all rounds are physique rounds, it just shows how little you can think for yourself.  It doesnít even make sense to keep typing. Once again that argument is for the posing round not the symmetry one.

Reading the IFBB judging criteria and understanding it are two very different things , perhaps you did read it but you obviously didn't get it which is a common theme with you , YOU have a problem with Dorian's wins this mean you think the judges are wrong and you are right , well there you go sport go get your judging jacket on and show'em how it's done.

The judges are inconsistent with the judging criteria.  You go get a straight jacket.  My place is onstage. 
22  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Only uncrowned Mr Olympia is Victor Martinez....Shawn, Flex and Levrone never. on: June 14, 2011, 03:59:26 AM
None , has nothing to do with how contests are judged when in fact most competitors don't which is why they always bitch about their placings

Well Iím not saying that you have to have competed to know anything about judging but if youíve been judged and had conversations with those judges about why you placed where you did, then it kind of leaves a lot of the guess work out of it.

You never realized a lot because you never knew the criteria which is painfully obvious. I didn't type the criteria for the symmetry round? yes I did and why? because ALL of the criteria is used in the symmetry round , a fact you still can't seem to grasp. Stop assuming my stance and ask , I already explained Dorian can lose multiple poses and still win the round another concept you're obvious to

What of the criteria do you think I didnít know?  Years ago I bought posing videos made by an IFBB judge that goes through how one should pose.  Donít you think that he damn near read the criteria in the video?  You have had your chance to make points and you havenít.  Iíve asked you for some and you donít respond.  What more should I do?  When you stand relaxed both arms are exposed and when you do a side chest pose only one biceps is exposed.  This is a concept you fail to understand. 

Explain what you think Symmetry is.  Youíve had your shot.  You wondered what mine was.  Then you claimed you asked me.  Then I gave you examples and definitions.  Do you see how this really isnít a debate?  Calling me wrong just doesnít cut it. 

I don't need to make anything up and I don't need to search for the answer and why? I already know it. there is NO debate in order for there to be a debate you would have to know what you're talking about and I've shown multiple times you don't ( dryness cause the muscles to be flat?   ) symmetry in the bodybuilding context has a more than a few meanings want me to teach you more? just ask.

Of course a dehydrated muscle is flat.  If you had a kinesiology degree or competed in something where the muscle was actually becoming dryer then youíd know.  Typing just doesnít get it done.  What do you think most of muscleís mass is, confetti?  Youíre probably thinking that low amounts of subcutaneous water make someone look more defined which is the case but I donít want to put words in your mouth.  You should be capable of explaining how Iím wrong or how youíre right.  Either will do.  You havenít taught me anything besides the fact that you donít really understand the concept of a debate and fail to understand logic.

I explained how height plays into a contest and never maintained it was a major part but it does come into play. popular opinion isn't proof it only proves a position is popular not true. and the minority picked Yates as Mr Olympia ( 12 or 13 judges ) this isn't American Idol where the masses pick the winner

Did you do a poll to reach this conclusion?  Do you believe that height was just left out of the article and criteria you posted?  Neither brought it up as even being a minor judging criteria.

You did claim Dorian should have won the symmetry round because his bicep was torn I explained that he could lose a few poses and still win the round ( the highs & lows are tossed , I'm sure you knew this as well ) because ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE rounds , muscular bulk ( and the rest of the criteria ) are just as important in the ' symmetry ' round as symmetry

I didnít claim that Dorian should have ever won the symmetry round.  Many of his flaws were glaring in this round because he couldnít contort his body. 

3rd in conditioning? Dorian is unmatched in conditioning dryness and density while carrying mass , more to conditioning than just having striations , Hammdullah was 176lbs easy to be ripped when you're that light try it at almost 260lbs , same with Munzer . guy was ripped and dry ( not not flat ) but didn't exactly carry much size Dorian was hard , dry , ripped and massive

Get off your fat ass and attempt to be as lean as Hammdullah.  You want me to tell you how that will play out if you do try?  Youíll fail.  Now I was making my point and I did.  I told you that Dorian wasnít always the biggest, many times he wasnít in the best condition and his symmetry landed him out of the top 5.  I donít have to type anymore about that.  I proved it and you didnít deny it.  You brought up muscular size. 

The system if not flawed , you still can't grasp the basics    Dorian can win the symmetry round without having the best symmetry and why? ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS the system is NOT flawed , just your comprehension. and entertaining you are a competitive bodybuilder doesn't mean much , Chris Cormier couldn't grasp how Jay Cutler won the symmetry round when he beat him at the Arnold , tons of athletes don't know how contests are judged nothing new.

What makes you think that all of the rounds are physique rounds?  Bodybuilding is about personality.  Symmetry is in reference to how a person meshes with other people in certain social situations.  I think we all know that.  The only round that has anything to do with how a physique looks is the posedown.

Dorian always was the most muscular , in terms of conditioned size absolutely , carrying the most muscular size while being hard and dry he stands alone. I'm sure you believe you backed up everything you typed ( with your unrelated Google searches ) but you're in way over your head , you're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts and you've provided NONE of those.

So I have to come up with facts and you donít have to even back any point or make one for that matter?  That seems a little inconsistent.  Estimate bodyfat of each competitor and then figure out their BMI.  Who is bigger will be who has the biggest number.  Iím not in way over my head.  Iím light years above the competition.  Iíve gone above and beyond debating with you as though youíve made some good points.  In reality youíve just said I was wrong.

Shawn didn't touch Dorian in muscular bulk , muscle balance & proportion , density & dryness I'm sure you'll disagree but bodybuilding history proves me right and you wrong , disagree all you'd like it doesn't change the facts and the fact is Shawn Ray and Dorian Yates stood before 12 judges and the IFBB judging criteria was assessed and Dorian satisfied the criteria better than Shawn , you can do what you like with the information the facts aren't gonna change

Dorian wasnít really that much bigger than Shawn.  Dorian was about 4 inches taller and had bigger bones.  Shawnís body was much more aesthetic and you think he reached this due to having poorer muscle balance and proportion?  What trait do you think creates a more aesthetic look?  Hair color?

I've explained this to you already many times. You're the one questioning how Dorian could win the symmetry round with a torn bicep this is how you don't have the slightest clue on how contests are judged , as does the fact you did NOT know ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS , this is another example of you not knowing how contests are judged , you never seeing the IFBB judging criteria until I just posted is another example of you not know how contests are judged , you erroneously thinking a dry muscle is a flat muscle shows you do NOT know how contests ate judged , shall I continue? because I can. You don't know and nothing wrong with not knowing , hell I never knew until I decided to learn , where you run into trouble is spouting off like you do know and then out of foolish pride sticking to your lame story

I don't have the ability to make you look stupid , YOU DO and you have been doing a fantastic job thus far. I'm a mental midget compared to you   says the guy who is using every faulty position and weak logic and ad homenin attacks , your Google searches aren't helping either Mr competitor without blue stars   

respond or not I don't care , I post it's what I do. If you don't post have fun licking your wounds   and if you do your pride isn't gonna save you because it's only gonna get worse from here on out.

You decide 

The muscle is called a biceps.  Iíve tried to teach you this but you seem to be a little challenged.  You fail to grasp fundamental aspects of communication.  Who told you that Iíve never read the IFBB judging criteria?  You googling that and posting it really didnít help your case.  Read what youíve typed.  You lose credibility by not being able to type a paragraph that anyone can understand.  It isnít that you talk about things that are over our heads.  It is that English is over yours.
23  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Only uncrowned Mr Olympia is Victor Martinez....Shawn, Flex and Levrone never. on: June 12, 2011, 05:00:11 PM
Here is something I havenít asked you yet.  How many competitions have you competed in?  How many judges have approached you and talked to you about why you were judged the way you were?  How many critiques have you received?  

The same
procedure for back poses will also take in the upper and lower
trapezius, teres and infraspinatus, erector spinae, the gluteus
group, the leg biceps group at the back of the thighs, calves, and

I never realized that feet were judged.  Iíd hate to think that someone could lose due to feet.
When assessing a competitorís physique, a judge should follow a
routine procedure which will allow a comprehensive assessment of
the physique as a whole. During the comparisons of the
compulsory poses, the judge should first look at the primary
muscle group being displayed. The judge should then survey the
whole physique, starting from the head, and looking at every part
of the physique in a downward sequence, beginning with general
impressions, and looking for muscular bulk, balanced
development, muscular density and definition. The downward
survey should take in the head, neck, shoulders, chest, all of the
arm muscles, front of the trunk for pectorals, pec-delt tie-in,
abdominals, waist, thighs, legs, calves and feet. A detailed assessment of the various muscle groups should
be made during the comparisons, at which time it helps the judge
to compare muscle shape, density, and definition while still
bearing in mind the competitorís overall balanced development.
The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and

Front Double Biceps (see Figure 1)
Standing face front to the judges, with the legs and feet
in-line and a short distance apart, the competitor will raise
both arms to shoulder level and bend them at the elbows.
The hands should be clenched and turned down so as to
cause a contraction of the biceps and forearm muscles,
which are the main muscle groups that are to be assessed
in this pose. In addition, the competitor should attempt
to contract as many other muscles as possible as the
judges will be surveying the whole physique, from head to

The judge will first survey the biceps muscles looking for a
full, peaked development of the muscle, noting whether
or not there is a defined split between the anterior and
posterior sections of the biceps, and will continue the
head-to-toe survey by observing the development of the
forearms, deltoids, pectorals, pec-delt tie-ins, abdominals,
thighs, and calves. The judge will also look for muscle
density, definition, and overall balance.

Front Lat Spread (see Figure 2)
Standing face front to the judges, with the legs and feet a
short distance apart, the competitor will place the open
hands, or clenched fists, against, or gripping, the lower
waist or obliques and will expand the latissimus muscles.
At the same time, the competitor should attempt to
contract as many other frontal muscles as possible. It
shall be strictly forbidden for the competitor to pull up on
the posing trunks so as to show the top inside of the
The judge should first see whether the competitor can
show a good spread of the latissimus muscles, thereby
creating a V-shaped torso. Then the judge should
continue with the head-to-foot survey, noting first the
general aspectsof the physique and then concentrating on
the more detailed aspects of the various muscle groups.

3. Side Chest (see Figure 3)
The competitor may choose either side for this pose, in
order to display the ďbetterĒ arm. He will stand with his
left or right side towards the judges and will bend the arm
nearest the judges to a right-angle position, with the fist
clenched and, with the other hand, will grasp the wrist.
The leg nearest the judges will be bent at the knee and
will rest on the toes. The competitor will then expand the
chest and by upward pressure of the front bent arm and
contract the biceps as much as possible. He will also
contract the thigh muscles, in particular, the biceps
femoris group, and by downward pressure on his toes,
will display the contracted calf muscles.
The judge will pay particular attention to the pectoral
muscles and the arch of the rib cage, the biceps, the leg
biceps and the calves, and will conclude with the head-tofoot
examination. In this pose the judge will be able to
survey the thigh and calf muscles in profile, which will
help in grading their comparative development more

Back Double Biceps (see Figure 4)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
bend the arms and wrists as in the Front Double Biceps
pose, and will place one foot back, resting on the toes.
He will then contract the arm muscles as well as the
muscles of the shoulders, upper and lower back, thigh
and calf muscles.

The judge will first survey the arm muscles and then do
the head-to-foot survey, during which there are more
muscle groups to look at than in all of the other poses.
This includes the neck, deltoids, biceps, triceps, forearm,
trapezius, teres, infraspinatus, erector spinae, external
obliques, latissimus dorsi, gluteus, thigh biceps, and
calves. This pose, probably more than the others, will
help the judge to determine the quality of the
competitorís muscle density, definition, and overall

Back Lat Spread (see Figure 5)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
place his hands on his waist with his elbows kept wide,
one foot back and resting on the toes. He will then
contract the latissimus dorsi as wide as possible and
display a calf contraction by pressing downward on the
rear toes. The competitor should make an effort to
display the opposite calf to that which was displayed
during the back double biceps pose so the the judge may
assess both calf muscle equally. It shall be strictly
forbidden for the competitor to pull up on the posing
trunks so as to show the gluteus maximus muscles.
The judge will look for a good spread of the latissimus
dorsi, but also for good muscle density and will again
conclude with the head-to-foot survey.

6. Side Triceps (see Figure 6)
The competitor may choose either side for this pose so as
to show the ďbetterĒ arm. He will stand with his left or
right side towards the judges and will place both arms
behind his back, either linking his fingers or grasping the
front arm by the wrist with his rear hand. The leg nearest
the judges will be bent at the knee and the foot will rest
flat on the floor. The competitor will exert pressure
against his front arm, thereby causing the triceps muscle
to contract. He will also raise the chest and contract the
abdominal muscles as well as the thigh and calf muscles.
The judge will first survey the triceps muscles, and
conclude with the head-to-foot examination. In this pose,
the judge will be able to survey the thigh and calf muscles
in profile, which will help in grading their comparative
development more accurately.

Abdominals and Thighs (see Figure 7)
Standing face front to the judges, the competitor will
place both arms behind the head and will place one leg
forward. He will then contract the abdominal muscles by
ďcrunchingĒ the trunk slightly forward. At the same time,
he will contract the thigh muscles of the forward leg.
The judge will survey the abdominal and thigh muscles,
and then conclude with the head-to-foot examination.

I like the part where it says that height is judged and that arm muscularity doesnít matter.  You didnít type the judging criteria for the symmetry round.  This criteria still lands Dorian in the same position.  Heís playing catch up in any pose where his arms are visible.  Your stance has to be that he can overcome this.  If your stance is that it isnít noticeable or that it actually looks better to have a torn biceps then youíre fighting a losing battle.  
actually symmetry? your definition of actual symmetry is left/right exactness? LMFAO   first thing you need to know sport is NOTHING in nature is truly symmetrical. and I especially love that lame default position of ' flow ' hehehehehehehe spoken like someone who doesn't know anything about ' symmetry ' in the bodybuilding context , you need to do some more research because the more you type the more you're exposing how little you know  

Symmetry (from the Greek: "__________" = to measure together), generally conveys two primary meanings. The first is an imprecise sense of harmonious or aesthetically pleasing proportionality and balance;[1][2] such that it reflects beauty or perfection. The second meaning is a precise and well-defined concept of balance or "patterned self-similarity" that can be demonstrated or proved according to the rules of a formal system: by geometry, through physics or otherwise.

If you want to make up a definition for symmetry and use it then you need to define it.  Otherwise you canít use it in an argument.  When Iíve typed symmetry this is what Iíve been referring to.  I will not pretend to know the definition youíve conjured up in your head.  
And your proof that Shawn had better symmetry is ad populum? and I'm not saying that Dorian does have better ' symmetry ' per sa but your proof he does it popular opinion? more faulty logic on your behalf lol I'm gonna play Devil's advocate for you , Shawn could have better symmetry than Dorian and still lose the symmetry round , shall I explain to you again why?

You need a better grasp of logic and English to be able to win a debate with me.  My stance was and still is that in a round where Dorian is unable to hide his poor arm shape and asymmetry, there is no reason to rank him above Shawn.  If Shawn should have been ranked higher after the relaxed poses then most if not all of Dorianís scores would have been different.  If one round was gifted to him then the credibility of the final outcome is minimal.  So you think Dorian having a torn biceps was also just popular opinion and lacked factual evidence?
Sure you did and I already answered how height comes into play

Explain how I modified a question and explain how height is a judging criteria.  Neither Dobbins nor the muscular round criteria mentioned it. If you typed your height explanation as a rebuttal to someone elseís post then I probably didnít read it.
What don't you get? how contests are judged for starters , how Dorian can win the symmetry round , what symmetry is , what the IFBB judging criteria is , how to apply it , how to comprehend what is being typed , there is a LOT you don't get  

You keep telling me I donít get things yet you canít really explain how youíve come to this conclusion.  You say my definition is wrong of words you can look up in a dictionary.  You say that Iíve given into popular opinion yet the popular opinion is that Dorian should have been crowned Mr. Olympia.  If youíre so against popular opinion then why arenít you in that instance?  Just because something is popular opinion doesnít make it right or wrong.  
You just proved my point again lmfao there is NO round where symmetry is key , where symmetry is judged as a sole entity. boy and I thought Hulkster was thick. Dorian was never lacking an ' arm ' for starters one bicep was shorter than another and I might agree that Dorian was never the most ' symmetrical ' depending on the context , and he wasn't the best conditioned?           boy you are digging yourself deeper and deeper , it's astounding how little you know yet are so positive in your ignorance lol and he wasn't the most muscular?   the best part of all your gross overstatements is they are just declarations with no explanation or elaboration what so ever , of wait is this the part where I know have to ask you to explain yourself? or should he just take your ignorant expert opinion on the subject?

So in a round where you have to stand with your arms at your sides and not contort your body, symmetry of the entire body is as easy to see as it is in a round where if you wanted you could never make one quarter turn?  You really stand by that?  Did I type that there is a round where only symmetry is judged and the rest of the physique isnít.  If I didnít then you arguing against that is a waste of time.  Where did you get your kinesiology degree?  Bicep isnít really a word.  The one you are looking for is biceps.  Each muscle is two headed which indicates where the moniker came from.  Thinking that biceps means muscles from both arms is incorrect.  

In 93 Hamdullah Aykutlu and Andreas Munzer were in the lineup.  At best Dorian would be 3rd in conditioning to these guys that year.  Lee Priest competed with a higher LBMI than Dorian in 97.  This means that per unit of height, Lee had more mass.
I'm starting to see a pattern here

Iím starting to see a pattern as well.  You have pretty much given up on making points and are hoping to just outlast me.  Use logic or inconsistencies to prove your points.  Must I debate both sides?  Iím actually doing a better job of making a case for you than you are.
I posted it to show YOU how there is NO round that judges symmetry alone and when knowing that ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS it's easy to see how and why Dorian won this round despite you point that he shouldn't. And it doesn't matter what the round is called it is NOT the only thing being judged , get this through your head. And muscle dryness would be a reference to dehydrated muscle which would be flat?          at first I thought you were just a gimmick looking to troll but then I thought maybe you're not but the absurdity of your comments can only draw one conclusion   if you're not a gimmick and actually believe this nonsense   I'm trying to figure out which is worse

' dryness probably shows little detail '  

Well when you posted it you forgot that it doesnít say that symmetry and proportion are not factors in any of the rounds.  It also said why the first round is often called the symmetry round.  These names didnít come out of the sky.  Your belief that they did is puzzling.  Your thought that different aspects or muscles cannot be hidden to some extent in different rounds or poses also doesnít make sense to me.  Iím still trying to help you you see.  You really donít make any points besides typing that Iím wrong.  
He wouldn't need the best symmetry to beat the guys who did , and go learn what symmetry is while you're at it because it's obvious you're trying to learn on the fly with your Google searches   Dorian rarely had the best ' symmetry ' and always won the symmetry rounds with straight firsts I'm better with your limited abilities you still can't comprehend why. he was almost ( according to you ) never the most muscular , or best conditioned and his symmetry sucked , this begs the question . HOW THE FUCK DID HE DOMINATE THE SPORT FOR YEARS ON END? Oh I know according to you it was a ' gift ' from judges who wanted to keep a certain type of physique haahhahahaha and you have the audacity to claim I don't know how to argue? hehehehehehehe

If the guy with nowhere near the best symmetry always won the symmetry round then chances are the system is flawed.  Iím not trying to learn on the fly.  As a competitive bodybuilder I kind of felt it was important to find out what I would be judged on over a decade ago.
I'm better with your limited abilities you still can't comprehend why

Youíre right.  I canít comprehend this and I doubt anyone else can with any level of certainty.  

Dorian wasnít always the most muscular but he always ranked high in this criteria.  I actually told you in the beginning that this is what he had over most of his competitors.  He was usually the biggest guy onstage.  He usually had some of the best conditioning on the stage but probably only had the best conditioning in the show twice.  His symmetry didnít necessarily suck.  His symmetry when compared to Shawn Ray, Chris Cormier, Charles Clairmonte, Flex Wheeler, Kevin Levrone, Mike Francois, Aaron Baker, Vince Taylor or Lee Lebrada always ranked lower.  Bodybuilding is scored on a ranking system.  Dorian dominated because the judges decided to make him the standard instead of judging the criteria.  They looked at it as whose physique has bettered the reigning Mr. Olympia.  Dorianís or Ronnie or Jay is going to have an advantage when they were last yearís ideal.  The competitors realize this and thatís why guys like Cutler or James didnít seek to improve their physiques.  They tried to do what they had to do to beat the reigning champ.  Nasser and Flex did the same thing to try to hunt down  Dorian.  Both were better before they tried to play the size race with Dorian.  Shawn didnít play the game.  He tried to tweak a near flawless physique to become closer to what he saw as ideal.  Iíve backed everything up that Iíve typed.  You have backed little up even when youíve been asked repeatedly.  You may know how to argue but if thatís true then youíre showing that youíre better at giving up.

He doesn't have better balance & proportions than Shawn , Kevin or Flex? ( more blanket statements with NO elaboration of points you have nerve saying I don't know how to argue lol ) we'll just take your word he doesn't   and there it is again , the old ' flow ' hahahahahaha , people look at Shawn and his physique is more aesthetically pleasing so they feel he should have won despite is flaws and despite not meeting ALL of the criteria better than Dorian , it doesn't matter what people feel , like you , they don't know how contests are judged and base everything on how they feel , emotions don't dictate contests kid you still have a ton to learn

I can spell it out to you if youíre not understanding.  Shawn didnít have a torn biceps.  He didnít have calves that were noticeably bigger than his upper arms.  Shawn didnít have a less dramatic taper or a protruding abdomen from the side.  Shawnís calves didnít make his upper legs look small.  Shawn didnít have a chest that lacked shape in certain areas.  He didnít have arms that lacked detail from certain angles.  Shawn didnít have inferior muscle shape in almost every muscle group.
And I never once pretended that he didn't have any weaknesses compared to his competition , once again you're arguing a point NO ONE ever made , I'm explaining that despite his flaws he can still beat them by satisfying more of the criteria better than the rest , a concept you still can't grasp.  Now how about the fact that the high and low scores are toss out? I better you knew this too   knowing this as well it would make you comprehend a little better how Dorian can still dominate ( Google that one too  

Once again youíre right that I canít comprehend what youíve typed.  I donít know if you didnít pay attention in the 5th grade or grew up in a country where English wasnít spoken.  Iíve competed and looked at my scorecard before so I donít have to google that.  You may not have pretended that he didnít have major weaknesses but you sure avoided the subject and wanted me to spell everything out for you.  The question here really is if a competitor places in the bottom half of a major judging criteria, how much better in everything else does he have to be to offset his weakness.  Iíd say he has to be quite a bit better in everything else to make up for his weakness.  Being a little more conditioned than all but 3 competitors and slightly bigger than the ones that owned you in a weakness doesnít equate to domination.  
We've established you don't have the slightest clue on how contests are judged and jumped to conclusions before knowing actual facts , you committed yourself way to early and ended up looking really stupid in the process , now you're embarrassed because you're in over your head and are trying desperately to save face , it's not working. You're a proud man but pride isn't going to save you from the ridiculous statements you're typing but hey have at it , I made a GetBig career out of exposing ignorant people just ask Hulkster    

How does a guy with college degrees thatís talked to judges about judging, eaten dinner with a judge, read critiques from judges and been in or around the scene for the biggest part of his life not have the slightest clue about how contests are judged?  You havenít established that so if we use logic that means youíve got a track record for not being able to prove things you think you have.  What actual fact donít I know?  That feet are being judged?  Thatís the only thing that I learned from all of this.  You havenít the ability to make me look stupid.  You are a mental midget compared to me and the pages of this thread are evidence.  You appear to have way more time on your hands and more value as a person placed on your getbig posts than I do.  If I fail to respond to something it will be due to this inequality, not my ignorance.

24  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Only uncrowned Mr Olympia is Victor Martinez....Shawn, Flex and Levrone never. on: June 11, 2011, 11:39:27 PM
I already explained to you why competitors may get scored differently in different rounds , it's obvious you can't follow along. Your comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. of course you know what symmetry is which is exactly why you elaborated on it when I asked you for your interpretation.   I'll just except your claim Dorian never had the best symmetry with no explanation at all

You canít even comprehend what youíve typed.  Your answer for how things are judged was pretty much Bill Dobbinsís article.  Are you Bill Dobbins?  You didnít ask me to tell you the definition of symmetry.  You typed that you were interested in hearing my thoughts.  I made fun of that.  Dorianís body lacked actual symmetry.  He didnít have 2 torn biceps.   If you drew a line down the middle of Shawnís body, each side looked almost identical.  Dorianís didnít.  Dorianís body lacked the flow that Shawnís had.  This can also be referred to symmetry.  What definition of symmetry do you think Dorian had over Shawn?  Post a thread named Dorian had better symmetry than Shawn Ray and see what percentage agree.  We both know that people that disagree will be the overwhelming majority.

Now you're modifying your question but I already answered this one as well.

I didnít modify the question.  You couldnít answer it in the beginning and you still canít.

you still don't get it

What donít I get?  That you have no way to answer my questions and still prove your point?

Dorian meet more of ALL the criteria than all of them did which has been explained to you repeatedly

He met some of the criteria.  He was not the most symmetrical.  He wasnít the best conditioned a lot of times.  He wasnít the most muscular.  He was near the top on a lot of the criteria.  You still canít explain how Dorian had perfect scores in a round where symmetry is key.  The only argument here is how much you value each aspect.  If someone is missing an arm but is the best at everything else, how much should the lack of an arm hurt them.  How much should being the 10th best in a major judging category hurt their overall ranking?

Yawn more fluff on your end , like I said when you want to discuss the subject please learn what it is you're attempting to talk about.

Say I want to discuss something, why would I go to a near illiterate person who canít comprehend what heís typed or make a point to save his life?  It has also probably become rather obvious to you that you could be right in almost anything but due to your inferior ability to debate, fail to prove any point.

Your original quote ( which is still WRONG ) the symmetry round , muscularity round and the posing rounds are the round where the balance of the physique of judged ALONG with the muscular bulk , muscle density , muscle dryness , muscle proportion , and posing & presentation there is NO round that only judges ' symmetry ' or balance or any other description you wanna use

Who posted the Dobbins article because you obviously donít agree with it.  His stance was that while everything may be judged in every round, the first round that is referred to as the symmetry round by many is called that because in the relaxed poses asymmetry and imbalances are harder to obscure.  By the way muscle dryness would be in reference to a dehydrated muscle which would be flat and probably show little detail.  Is this what you mean?  I donít think it is.  This is just another example of you lacking articulation needed for a debate.  You have to type exactly what you mean.

Your ignorant conclusion to how Dorian won the symmetry & posing rounds is ' It was a gift from the judges that wanted to stick to a certain type of physique ' it wasn't a gift it was Dorian satisfying ALL of the criteria better than anyone he competed with. You DO NOT know how contests are judged which is how you come to this dumb conclusion.

You keep typing that he satisfied all of the criteria better yet you canít conceed that he obviously didnít have the best symmetry.  Without this you pretty much lose anyone that was going to agree with you.  It shows that you refuse to see the truth.  

Dorian won the symmetry and posing rounds compared to Shawn Ray & Kevin Levrone & Flex Wheeler , because he had better balance AND proportion AND muscular bulk AND muscle density AND muscle dryness AND he was more complete , these are the reasons why Dorian won the symmetry & posing rounds , get it?

Dorian doesnít have better balance or proportions than Shawn, Kevin or Flex.  His physique lacked their flow.  Why is it that people look at Shawn and think that his physique looks better than Dorianís? Iím not really even saying that Dorian didnít deserve to win some of the time.  What Iím saying is that his symmetry wasnít ranked anywhere close to that and in a round where his flaws were extremely obvious, he should not have been ranked where he was.  Some of the years he probably could overcome his weaknesses but pretending he didnít have the weaknesses compared to these competitors isnít being truthful.

25  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Only uncrowned Mr Olympia is Victor Martinez....Shawn, Flex and Levrone never. on: June 11, 2011, 03:05:59 PM
If the way I posted that isn't decipherable let me know and I'll fix it.
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