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1  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Training Q&A / Hyperplasia - Is it possible to grow new fibers? on: August 03, 2011, 10:55:43 AM
Just read this, very interesting stuff - Do you believe this?

Does this mean that even if a small but significant portion of some fibers are completely torn, remaining fibers could potentially split and  proliferate like flowers given the right environment (HITS or steroids) and "fill up" the damaged area to a degree ?

I've noticed over my years training that the muscles I happened to train with more sets and more reps (biceps) tended to fare MUCH better AND be relatively stronger at the same time in proportion to my chest and shoulders, which I trained with heavy weight and moderately high reps but fewer sets.  The article recommends 15-20 reps with 20+ sets for maximum fiber splitting (IF it is actually possible at ALL)
Quote
The currently accepted theory of muscle growth is the hypertrophy model. This model holds that we are born with a proscribed number of muscle fibers, which is genetically determined by the twenty-fourth week of fetal development. Muscle growth, this model holds, occurs when repeated stress, such as weight training, causes the fibers to thicken as an adaptive reaction. More precisely, fibers demonstrate a compensatory cross-sectional area increase. The important point here is that most researchers believe that while muscle fibers thicken their number remains constant.

William Gonyea was not mad, a sadist nor an animal hater. He did not harbor a diabolical plan to create Arnold Schwartzefeline. Still, Dr. Gonyea made his cats lift weights. In fact, in 1978, using a Skinnerian behavior modification technique known as "operant conditioning", Dr. Gonyea transformed ordinary cats into devoted weightlifters. Gonyea attached weights to his cats' paws then required them to press levers to obtain food. To do so, they had to lift their weighted paws. To simulate progressive resistance training, he gradually increased the amount of weight attached to the cats' limbs. Gonyea was investigating hyperplasia. He was well aware of the debate among scientists as to whether myofibril hyperplasia exists. By attaching weights to his cats paws Dr. Gonyea was attempting to produce hyperplasia. Ultimately, he did. He reported a 19.3-20.5% increase in the number of muscle fibers in his test cats. Some scientists dispute the method Gonyea used to determine the number of new fibers. Others consider the experiment invalid because cats have as many as eleven different types of muscle fibers while humans have no more than five. (They are more often considered to have only two or three.) These researchers argue that Gonyea's work adds nothing to our store of knowledge about human hyperplasia. While superficially true, we have known since at least 1902 that myofibril hyperplasia can occur in humans. At least in those afflicted with Muscular Dystrophy (Erb, 1891) and in pregnant women's abdominal muscles (Durante, 1902). One can reason that if Gonyea produced hyperplasia in healthy cats, and we know that humans are capable of producing hyperplasia (even if only in abnormal states), it is probable that myofibril hyperplasia can be made to occurs in humans. We have no ethical way of proving hyperplasia in vivo because the repeated removal of cells from the same subject on a recurring basis would be invasive and destructive of that individuals healthy muscle function. We are left to prove myofibril hyperplasia indirectly.

Scientists Tesch and Larsson, in a 1982 study, used an interesting indirect approach. They reported persuasive evidence. Their subjects consisted of three groups: competitive bodybuilders, powerlifters and ordinary, untrained physical education students. Performing minimally invasive fine-needle biopsies on all three groups, their surprising finding was that the world-class bodybuilders showed smaller muscle fibers than the powerlifters. Even more surprising, the bodybuilders muscle fibers were no thicker than the physical education students' who were not weight-trainers. There study was repeated in 1986, to confirm the finding, with the same result. Their conclusion was that the increased muscle size of the bodybuilders was likely the result of fiber-splitting (hyperplasia) rather than hypertrophy. This calls into serious question the almost universally accepted hypertrophy model. One can reason further (even if they didn't). Powerlifters train with fewer reps and heavier weights, In other words, more intensely then bodybuilders; even, as in this case, where the average training experience of the competitive bodybuilders was 10 years. One could reasonably assert that high-intensity training leads to hypertrophy while lower intensity high-load training leads to hyperplasia. Here's how the new model might look.

Biopsies done on swimmers' muscles found that their most intensely trained muscles, their shoulders, appeared to have undergone muscle-splitting. Another study looked at cyclists. They rode 4 days a week, 30 minutes per session, for 6 weeks. Biopsies taken from their frontal thighs were observed to show distinct evidence of fiber splitting. This evidence suggests that sustained but lower intensity demand, perhaps regardless of ultimate duration, may encourage hyperplasia. If this is true, different forms of anaerobic exercise may produce different results. This theory seems to be supported by empirical gym wisdom.
2  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Injury and Rehabilitation / Re: Supraspinatus tear or Separated shoulder?? Something else?? YOU DECIDE on: July 14, 2011, 07:11:59 PM
Thanks for the posts guys, wow it's been a long time Grin

Yes, patience is very important.  There may be something wrong in the AC joint, but I recently have come to think that it has something to do with the rhomboids or trapezius, EITHER a small tear and/or protracted shoulder girdle.

best reference on this kind of stuff i've found: http://www.exrx.net/Kinesiology/Posture.html

I stopped exercising for almost 2 years, and just started again.  This time, I did some research, and there's several factors I realized this time:

-prior to "quitting" i had been doing extremely heavy bent-over db rows (with what most of the people here  might call good form, but way to heavy - 150 lb for 20 reps, and i held the protracted position
-when doing seated rows, I always used a weight too heavy to fully contract the scapula, and i held the protracted position (arms stretched out)
-i was spending 8-12 hours per day on computers and doing homework from college after graduating HS
-i also did extremely heavy lat pulldowns (270 x 15) - this pulls the scapula downwards

ALL of these factors stretch out the shoulder girdle forwards.

when i started back up again just a while ago, i tried doing mainly LIGHT weight machine scapular retraction exercises after every set, and within a month of starting (after 2 years of SHIT, like being in pain pressing the 25's LOL) i was back at painlessly pressing the 100 DBs for 15.  I know this isn't anything to brag about, but it's something I'm very grateful for, and thought i'd never do again.

The only symptoms i have right now are a scapula clicking in the top corner nearest the spine every time i raise my right hand, and a pain there when I do the PEC-DEC (hmm..  possibly from the trapezius or rhomboids getting stretched away??)  I stopped using the PEC-DEC.

The clicking is annoying as hell, and is either:

Optimistic:a loose tendon/muscle which is overstretched and snaps over surfaces when contracted (This CAN happen, right??)

OR A torn part of the trapezius/rhomboids tendon/muscle attacted to the scapula hitting it's alive counterparts - trapezius/rhomboids (Oh noes)


Its a long post, but to summarize what has worked for me so far - squeezing the shoulder blades together, both with cable/lever row machine and while sitting, AND stretching the pecs - bringing the bar all the way down to the chest  to really stretch the pecs out (pecs are kind of the antagonist here to the actions of the rhomboids + traps)

Please reply if you found this post interesting or want information  Grin









 








3  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Injury and Rehabilitation / Re: Supraspinatus tear or Separated shoulder?? Something else?? YOU DECIDE on: September 20, 2010, 07:39:00 PM
Honestly, itís hard to tell.
Even if you visit a string of different specialists, itís possible that not a single one will accurately diagnose your problem.
Unfortunately, you cannot treat a problem without first knowing what it is.

One major complication is that, insofar as symptoms, thereís a great deal of overlap between various conditions.
Even having a combination of several specific symptoms is oftentimes insufficient to pinpoint the problem.


Hmm , well thanks for your potential diagnosis.

If the symptoms overlap, sometimes the conservative treatments might as well though, right?

Good posture, scapular alignment, rotator cuff,...

I'm pretty sure my primary doctor would have no clue about any of the possible issues..

Get Big specialists > doctor
4  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Injury and Rehabilitation / Re: Supraspinatus tear or Separated shoulder?? Something else?? YOU DECIDE on: September 20, 2010, 07:16:17 PM
Hmm.. Interesting.  I'll have to do some more research.

Could this be caused by the trauma I described?

I might have the "Adson's sign" for Thoracic Outlet.

The past week or two especially, I've often woken up while sleeping probably 1/3 of the days with no blood flow in my arm..  Dont know if this is usual.  I have to move my arms around for a minute until i regain my sense of touch in the arm.  Next time Ill see if it was the right arm.

Imma try some of the stretches for that.

Quote
# Stretching
The goal of self stretching is to relieve compression in the thoracic cavity, reduce blood vessel and nerve impingement, and realign the bones, muscles, ligaments, and tendons causing the problem.

    * Moving shoulders forward (hunching) then back to neutral, followed by extending them back (arching) then back to neutral, followed by lifting shoulders then back to neutral.
    * Tilting and extending neck opposite to the side of injury while keeping the injured arm down or wrapped around the back.

5  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Injury and Rehabilitation / Re: Supraspinatus tear or Separated shoulder?? Something else?? YOU DECIDE on: September 20, 2010, 06:52:50 PM
eh Its hard to condense it more.  Embarrassed

injured by trying to resist a falling 50lb DB after somehow failing to shoulder press it.  (like a forward DB raise in reverse)

I was able to do like 50 + pushups 1-2 months after and most of range of motion (full range without weight now), but it still hurts to press straight forward, with heavy weight now like 8-9 months later.  Straight upwards shoulder presses don't hurt at all.  

My best description of what would really hurt (and i havent/wont do it) would be "Twirl/rotate a 30 lb DB around using my wrist with my arm fully extended"

Is it possible its was just a "sprain" that remained tender?

I'm going to try to do hardcore arm circles with light weight all day as my final resort  Undecided
6  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Injury and Rehabilitation / Re: Does swimming really help a torn rotator cuff? on: September 16, 2010, 09:39:45 PM
I would say definately yes, even though i'm no expert, slowly flailing and rotating my arms in varied semi/full-circles with really light weight has seemed to be somewhat effective in helping me, but im definately not 100% yet. 

in addition, 2 people have told me that swimming was helpful in their recovery.

With swimming, you are doing that, but it makes it appear that you are doing it for a legitimate reason, and you have a little resistance without being overwhelmingly heavy,  in all directions, unlike just with gravity downwards aka free weights.  Whenever trying to exercise gently i find people staring and pointing  Sad

But, I am so out of shape that i dont want to be swimming at this point
7  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Injury and Rehabilitation / [UPDATE - Partially healed] Supraspinatus tear ?? Something else?? YOU DECIDE on: September 16, 2010, 09:12:02 PM
Hello, so I would like to know what you experts might think happened to my RIGHT shoulder, or if youve had something similar.  Thanks if you can help.

I am maybe 60% - 70% recovered , but still feel really weak compared to before.  I now have a full range of motion without weight, and had that a few months after the incident, but a lot of pressing pain, and when holding out my arm really far, especially with weight.


Here is the description:

I just turned 20.

About 9 months ago, I was doing upright shoulder presses (NOT FLAT PRESSES) with a 60 lb db (usually high-rep for me, but it was at the very end of a long exercise fun session so more difficult)

-I got em into position but was too tired to lift it all the way up, so stupidly instead of dropping it, i tried to slowly lower my arm against it while holding my arm half outstretched, like a reverse forward raise.  It fell a bit faster than it should have. LOL  Cheesy  I know, im a NOOB.

-Up until like 2-3 weeks later, there was a pain in my back, like high lats and it might have been one of those littley tendon insertion points.

-There was no swelling  or redness that i remember

-The back pain vanished quickly

-Shoulder kinda felt instable from that point and still is,, serious pain in AC for a month or 2 especially if moving it or pushing, and alot of popping at the AC, especially with raising and relaxing the arm.  The popping improved some with elastic bands.

-The pain felt/feels kind of sharp, kind of like a pinch but not really.  Definately not a normal muscle pain.

-For first month, AC felt tender/hurt when pushing down on the ac, or maybe it was under the AC.  It doesnt anymore.

-Straight upward pressing, like how i injured it, never hurt at all afterwards, it was always (and still is) flat pressing which bothers me, even though i injured it by "dropping" my arm while pressing upwards.

-Now, I can do flat DB pressing again, but I keep it around 20-25 reps (with 50 lb DBs right now) to be safe with good ROM and keep the pain very low  - the most ive done was 15 x 115 DBs before i hurt em, but my shoulders always felt weak.  I havent dared to touch anything close to that weight.

-I am doing internal and external rotations, my inward rotation has gotten pretty strong but it hurts a teeny bit when going hardcore on the bands than on the uninjured shoulder.

-Outward rotation is weaker than inward on the affected shoulder (probably normal) but no pain, unlike inward.


So there was alot of healing after about 2 months, however, it was disturbing that i couldnt do heavy stuff easily and hearing POP POP POP whenever raising my arm or sticking it in some odd horizontal direction, so i basically quit for many months, until trying to mess with the bands and actually taking the time to research the shoulder anatomy.

Also, are there any exercises im forgetting?  Here are the relevant stuffs im doing:

-External rotation (Band and cord-machine thing)

-Upwards rotation for infra and teres according to wikipedia

-Internal (Band and cord-machine thing)

-Full can raises

-Straight forward raises and all degrees over to the side raises

-Wall pushups

-Pushups

-Rows (bent and seated)

-Shrugs

-Pulldowns

-Presses

-Circular motions

Pec dec and Fly machine

8  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / if you travel back in time to starting college? on: June 21, 2009, 09:29:22 PM
What would you do?
9  Getbig Alternative Boards / Relationship Talk, Questions, Pictures & More! (18+) / Re: What age girl should an 18 Y.O. go for? on: May 31, 2009, 09:33:54 PM
The minimum legal age here is 18  Angry

15 or 16 is fine right, as long as you "don't have sex"  Grin
10  Getbig Alternative Boards / Relationship Talk, Questions, Pictures & More! (18+) / What age girl should an 18 Y.O. go for? on: May 31, 2009, 09:06:47 PM
 Huh

18? 20? 15? 16?


And What is the best method for doing this in a short period of time?
11  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Pictures of Members & More / Re: Post a pic of your face thread........ on: May 24, 2009, 08:25:03 PM
 Grin
12  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Pictures of Members & More / Re: 18 yo natural on: May 22, 2009, 05:42:42 AM
my dhea level was like 1/5 if  remember correctly, of the normal level when they gave me a full panel.  testosterone was "just a bit low for my age" also, but definately in the normal range.

edit: its likely i had adrenal fatigue or something
13  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Pictures of Members & More / Re: 18 yo natural on: May 21, 2009, 06:54:19 PM
not to hate but ya i would think you did a little something extra, you look to be about the same size muscle wise and only dropped body fat? Iono about body fat% id say the same as guts, your abs arent real defined which is usually around 10% or so if im not mistaken for most ppl.

thanks if you think i did steroids, thats a good thing i guess..  No, i dont and didnt use steroids or pro hormone steroids or other pills other than multi, vit d, zinc, some dhea wich could be called 'hormones' which were prescribed at a very low dose..  and i stopped taking dhea a while ago because it wasnt doing much ,at least at that dose.  it probably helped fat burning however.  I currently take 7-keto dhea because it supposedly doesnt tamper with estrogen or testosterone and has some benefits like greater fat loss and lean mass with metabolism acceleration etc.

I increased poundages and reps a bit, while slowly losing weight.
14  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Pictures of Members & More / Re: 18 yo natural on: May 21, 2009, 06:30:00 PM
thanks nah not on any juice, couldn't have afforded it anyway sadly as im pretty much broke recently  Sad ..  the desperate mentality i get when training or working on my other projects though helps me train a bit harder and bring out the intensity.   I've found that less (like maybe twice wat an unfit kid eats in protein) is pretty similar to more, and just training really hard so the body adapts.  Also lots of water, gallons, good amount of fat, some carbs helped me I think.
15  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Pictures of Members & More / Re: 18 yo natural on: May 21, 2009, 06:08:54 PM
Ok its been 4 months:
I was thinking about using steroids many months ago but decided that it would be a waste of money, I can just be aggressive and take action., and i want to stay natural for health, plus its too late now that highschools ending ;( .  Ive been using lots of coffee 6 cups per workout.  strength up a bit esp. shoulders, lost about 10 lbs. total.  Also started BOXING.
5'11 about 215 lbs 17.75 inch arms can someone estimate my (fat) bodyfat : p
16  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Steroids Info & Hardcore / Re: Low Testosterone on: April 23, 2009, 11:45:43 AM
Well idk about my testosterone now, tried some really high dose zinc - 4 x 30 mg /day  and vitamin d - 8 X 1000iu capsules



and it seems to be doing something, like i get hardness every single morning with that (is that usual?)

and ive got a bit more facial hair now. 

and coffee..  there is this special acid-free coffee that you can drink as much as you want without stomach crap, so i drink 4 cups before workouts and ive gotten to preacher curls 45 on each side, a five on each side, and a 2.5 and collar on each side, full range, for 18 reps, and 100 lb db press for 15 reps,  skullcrushers 45 on each side 16 reps,  which isn't that great..  but some significant pregress with my low test all natural. 
17  Getbig Main Boards / General Topics / Re: DNA test shows 13-year-old Alfie Patten is not a dad on: March 27, 2009, 10:01:26 AM
lol  Shocked





18  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Steroids Info & Hardcore / Re: Extreme Cycle for 2 month transformation possible? on: January 06, 2009, 05:14:28 PM
a suicide inhibitor is the thing that doesn't just block estrogen, but kills the cells that produce it.  Useful for those prone to gyno or already have gyno.  I forgot what the name of the pill was.
19  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Steroids Info & Hardcore / Extreme Cycle for 2 month transformation possible? on: January 06, 2009, 04:51:00 PM
Is Testosterone alone + suicide inhibitors enough for a quick transformation for a dedicated beginner (e.g. take bench which has been stuck from mid 300's to 400's,  gain quite abit of muscle size while leaning out, all in 1-4 months) ?
Or are the more unnatural substances (tren, etc.) required ?

If a beginner takes too much testosterone, like 700 mg or something, what would happen?
20  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Physique Photographer Jason Ellis Accused of Raping 15-year old Model on: January 01, 2009, 07:45:34 PM
If we are only in the 17-18 range do we still have a chance at this  Grin
21  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Pictures of Members & More / Re: 18 yo natural on: January 01, 2009, 03:26:18 PM
ok thanks for the advice ppl .  I am glad that I can get honest info here about my body fat level..  I guess I was disillusioned, convincing myself a few months ago that i wasn't fat with my pushup ability, like sets of 50-60, and my chin-up ability at sets of 28.  I'll stop the carb bulking immediately   Tongue
22  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Physique Photographer Jason Ellis Accused of Raping 15-year old Model on: December 31, 2008, 05:57:35 PM
Here is our girl  Shocked :
23  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Pictures of Members & More / 18 yo natural on: December 29, 2008, 10:05:57 PM
Hey I need help getting my chest up.  I've been training for 2 years, been taking DHEA for a few months as prescribed by doctor.

5'11 220 lbs


Senior at high school.
24  Getbig Bodybuilding Boards / Nutrition, Products & Supplements / Re: Folstaxan- myosatin modulator on: September 14, 2008, 06:16:47 PM
I did some research on this many months ago, and basically even if it lowered myostatin by raising follistatin, you would have to take the product for years to see a noticable difference.  A study which was done by the same company who made it i believe said this product did infact lower myostatin, but either didn't cause muscle gain in the period it was used, or they didn't measure that.

In fact, the real heavy duty myostatin blockers haven't yet been proven effective at muscle gain in humans, even though there have been some clinical tests.

Also,
The other thing is that myostatin is needed for tendons, so if you inhibit that, you are much more prone to injury.

It won't give you any short term results.

It supposedly inhibits myostatin with follistatin, a natural myostatin blocker which is extracted from eggs in very large amounts.

If the product really does inhibit myostatin, which i don't doubt, and you had taken it since birth for 20 years, yes, you would be more muscular than normal.  But for alot of money.
25  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Ring of Power - "no need for steroids" on: August 28, 2008, 09:04:09 PM
Found this on elitefitness.  Is this a hoax or does this have some legitamacy?

Its basically an electric ring you wear on your parts.

Quote
Built into the Blakoe Ring's construction are small electro-dynamic copper and zinc plates which produce a perpetual flow of electrical energy when in contact with the naturally ionic moisture in the pores of the skin. This avoids any need for batteries.


The electrical energy, in conjunction with the slight restraining effect of the ring, stimulates blood circulation to the sexual organs, thus facilitating erection. The dynamic plates have been scientifically tested and register a continuous flow of electricity throughout wear.

It is important to note that the electrical effect of The Blakoe Ring does not directly cause an erection, but rather it assists the body in regaining its natural sexual capabilities. For this reason, The Blakoe Ring can be worn as often and for as long as you wish without fear of embarrassment.

Wearing The Blakoe Ring
The Blakoe Ring may be worn according to individual necessity. Some men find it so comfortable and easy to wear that they wear it every day. Others wear it for just a few hours each day, whilst some prefer to wear it only during intercourse.

The ring fits comfortably around the entire 'genital bunch', the base of the penis passing behind the scrotum and testicles. If preferred it can be removed during intercourse. Many however, prefer to wear it 24 hours a day as, during sexual activity, its pressure stimulation on a partner's sensitive areas is commonly reported to be very pleasurable.

Weighing only 32 grams, The Blakoe Ring has been scientifically designed and manufactured from very light, medical grade polymers. Its unique patented design ensures that it is not only exceptionally easy to place and remove, but also is remarkably comfortable to wear.




Quote
Last month I started using my Blakoe Ring and it has really jump started my program. It has restored my natural testosterone and put it way above average. I had some blood work done, it used to be around 300nl in June of 2003, when I had the second test it was 550nl, now I know its close to 900nl.this has made my overall appearance bigger, my flaccid hangs lower and looks way bigger. Mr S. Texas

Quote
I persevered because they said it would take six weeks to work. It did work. My erections came back and my ejaculation spurts increased from five or six to a record breaking 25 spurts. My wife was amazed. A further blood test showed normal to high levels of testosterone. Mr D.H. USA


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