Listen to Lou from around 1:30 - 2:20 and he explains very well
what the majority audience wants to see.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKxJQKXe1GI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKxJQKXe1GI</a>

The last 10 years have been rough on Arnold.
Around 10 years ago when they made the Terminator 3 movie
he looked really good for a 54 year old. Stallone looks great for 65
if you ask me. Father time has not been as good to Arnold.
Pictures from around 10 years ago.
You don't stay or look young forever but one thing that will age your
skin is staying tan all the time and although Arnold is naturally pretty
white he spent most of his years with a decent to very golden tan.







Tanned Arnold around 35 yrs. old.


An older tanned Arnold

This is the 1st thing I thought of after reading your post.
From the movie Reign of Fire.
They kill their 1st Dragon and the whole village is celebrating.
Mathew M's character comes in on it and listen for yourself.
Start about 2 minutes 50 seconds in.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NfDyElZ3r0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NfDyElZ3r0</a>


 

Picture from just a couple of weeks ago. The best way to compare is side by side.
Jay is going to improve more than Phil will because of the lay off but at this
point Phil is easily ahead of Jay;
Especially in the delts.
After 2009, I'm not going to doubt what Jay can potentially bring come Olympia
time. but DO I think he will beat Phil or Kai? NO, Do I believe it's possible for him
to bring the freakiest package Jay has ever brought? Yes, If everything alligns right
he could bring the size of 2006 with the condition and shape of 2009.
If he does this he could win. Possible but not probable.  
Check out the difference in delt size in the photo
and then check out the 1st 2 minutes or so of what Ronnie brought at 40 yrs. old
at close to or reportably 300 pounds.

Click links below pictures for a much larger size.
2nd picture shows where Jay's delts need to come back to
and also I think this was Jay's best shape ever -possibly not condition
but the shape of his physique overall.




<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LyG8aGwOmM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LyG8aGwOmM</a>
 

Kai has a completely different structure. He has bigger joints than Ronnie did
and Ronnie's detail is on another level than Kai's.
There's a reason Peter McGough said Ronnie was a walking anatomy chart this
year I'm posting from.
The side chest might be off a little on the scale but on the most muscular the arms
are almost the same size and Kai's head appears a tad bigger.
Anyway, not perfect scale but you get the point here.

The reasons Arnold was so much lighter height for pound than today's guys are:

1. Today's guys have to build fairly large muscles in their glutes to get them striated.
The glutes are the largest muscle in the body and Arnold's weren't big.

2. The legs overall are much bigger today and that accounts for a lot of the extra weight.

3. Arnold had a peeled back but it wasn't super thick like a lot of top guys now.
(Although in 1974 his back was thicker than any other time in his career.)

4. The waists protrude which accounts for more unneeded weight.

Arnold just didn't carry a ton of muscle in the largest muscle groups; glutes, legs and back.

There are only a handful of guys that carried extreme mass with incredible aesthetics.
Arnold is one of them. The best example of a modern BB who had this trait is Levrone.

Arnold also is one of the best examples of a bodybuilder who just explodes when he poses.
Ronnie is a good example too early in his Olympia reign.
We all have seen bodybuilders that look awesome standing there but not much happens
when they start posing. Arnold was the antithesis of that.
Aesthetic Arnold:

This kid started out looking like a miniature Arnold with a small
waist, peaked biceps and striations everywhere.
He has grown some but lost a lot of detail and has more of that
Juan Pierre Fux? look. (Not as bad but he's lost somethings that made
his physique special for a little extra size.

No doubt Phil would beat Arnold but Arnold was from a different era
and was way ahead of his time. People mainly remember the 1975 Arnold
and 1980 Arnold but the 73-74 versions were in a different league than those
versions.

I've always kinda pulled for Kai because of him being an underdog and
could look past the grapefruit thing BUT that was just depravity.
Who knows if that dude has Herpes in his mouth *and in public
*and on camera.
I've always thought Kai might be a little off BUT this kinda nails that
suspicion in the coffin. I guess his childhood really messed with his head.
I always though it strange too how he just dropped his mentor Oscar
and never even spoke to him again, even though Oscar considered Kai family.

WHAT HAS BEEN SEEN CANNOT BE UNSEEN! I wished I had not seen this.

Cutler has the width but Heath has that POP to his muscles.
If Cutler had the same thin skinned, vascular, striated muscularity  
in his upper body as he does his quads, he would be spoken in the same
regard as Yates and Coleman. Cutler's upper body has always lacked that
anatomy chart look that his legs do.

Like someone mentioned earlier, use speed to get to the legs
to get them to the ground. If someone has a steel jaw and can take a hell of a punch
then you go for the temple. Tyson knocked out a few guys or more with temple shots.
Then there's always choking them out although with Andre you would most likely
need long arms.
Here's the closest scenario to this thread and it took a very skilled 230 pds. pudgy
Fedor 2 minutes to win. Fedor is really a lightheavyweight that dominated the heavys
for a long time. By that I mean his structure and muscle mass is that of a 205 lightheavy
and the extra weight was not quality weight but he was so skilled for his time he constantly
beat bigger opponents. MMA has evolved though and in this day and age in the UFC he
would probably fight as a lightheavy if he was just starting his career now.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i0iZcLIrTQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i0iZcLIrTQ</a>

I think their leader is under 30 (very bad age for that kind of power)
28 yrs. old I think. He is trying to prove himself OR he is a psychopath
or both. Anyone, who could kill (nuke) 10's of thousands of people without
guilt is someone who needs to be erased from this earth. I'm not afraid to
die so I"m not worried about North Korea for myself but I am always concerned for
people in general and this guy will eventually have to be dealt with.

Lenda was the last female bodybuilder before it became toooo much
muscularity.
Lenda is still too muscular for my taste.
Cory was a beautiful woman but her sister Cameo was the BOMB.
Also, Rachel McLish was gorgeous. She had that perfect skin color,
beautiful dark hair and although she tried to play the good girl you
could tell she was trying. Met her in the 80's and even the way she
spoke was sexy. Although too light in muscle to really be considered
a pro bodybuilder, she was the perfect person to get the ball rolling for it.
Lenda in the 90's was about as far as they should have taken it and it
has slowly been dying ever since.

Cameo




Rachel


A mid-90's Rachel

I haven't read through this thread but muscle takes so much
oxygen Ronnie in his prime would be gassed very quick. This season
on TUF there's a guy at 185 who's pretty muscular but it affects his
cardio. Jon Jones talked about it, and it turned out to be true.
 It is possible to be fat like Roy Nelson and have good
cardio but every fighter that's had a lot of muscle mass has had
to lose quite a bit to get the conditioning needed for MMA.
Shane Carwin used to be huge when he first started but lost quite a bit of muscle mass.
(Still was a big guy though - Same with Brock compared to WWE.
Mark Coleman used to gas when he was champ because of his muscle mass.
I actually think muscle takes more oxygen then fat, that's why some chubby
guys have great cardio. I've never seen a hyper muscular guy with great
MMA cardio.

There's so many great pictures of Yates but this one has always
impressed me because of how lean and dry he is. You rarely see
the sunken in faces anymore and his intercostals are showing
standing face forward. Imagine if he could have kept this waist
with the added size. Impossible I realize but this is a freaky picture
in a different way than most. Condition like this is rarely if ever seen
in the current scene.

There's so many great photos of Ronnie but this one sticks out
to me. Although, this is from a 2000 guest posing he is in great shape
and hadn't blown his gut and legs to mutant levels yet.
I prefer his 98-99 Olympia looks the best but I think this picture
in 2000 took bulbous mass on a medium large frame to a new level.

Arnold - 1st read Education of a Bodybuilder at 15 and this was the
cover photo. At least we know the peak is real and this image will
always be numero uno with me because of the impact it had on my life.
Not so much the photo itself, although awesome but the book itself. It seriously had a great
impact on how I lived, especially as a teenager.

A couple of Sergio's best pictures.

I'm not much into conspiracy theories but someone would have to have their
head in the sand to not understand with very little research that there are
a group of very powerful, rich and influential people that want to decide how
everyone lives. These are the people that will decide and take action on how
to bring the population down to a sustainable level and scores of other
decisions that affect the lives of the average person. Some call them The Illuminati,
The New World Order, ect.
Kennedy was killed shortly after a speech against these secret societies and I always
thought he was killed because he wouldn't play a long so to speak.
Here is a short part of that speech. Kennedy was the man to stand against this.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdUsJHeVXiE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdUsJHeVXiE</a>

Shawn was VERY good in 1992 and came in 4th right behind Labrada. Both at there best are
very close.
Labrada's structure is better. For his frame he has wider clavicles and his torso to leg length
is better proportioned than Ray's.
Shawn had more bulbous muscle than Labrada and more happened (POP) to his muscles
when he hit a pose. His clavicles weren't as wide, his torso was a little long for his leg length.
I agree Shawn at his best edges out Labrada and I agree that Shawn at his best
would not win against a 1991 Haney.
I agree with you but probably think it would be closer than you do.

Throwing all the statistics out the window and just going by physique
I felt like Ronnie circa 98-99 was much like an improved Haney.
He had the arms that Haney lacked (to some degree).
Ronnie had more detail to his back. Although Haney had an awesome
back I didn't feel it was super detailed like a 1983 Samir, early Ronnie and Yates.
Ronnie's legs, hams and glutes are just on a completely different level.
Ronnie had some mild distention even in 98-99 and in that area Haney is
far superior. I've seen Haney in very good condition close up and even in video
Ronnie is more impressive.
Beisdes Yates in 1991, the best physique Haney competed against was Labrada in
1989. Labrada was close to perfection but was between 176-180 pounds.
Labrada brought that Yates like conditioning that year: (No Fat, No Water, Thin Skin but nowhere
close to Yates density); but at 180 pounds it puts
the level of Haney's competition into perspective.
As far as being a good, decent human being, you would be hard pressed to find
many as good as Haney though.
Labrada in 1989...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M7oNEFvmeI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M7oNEFvmeI</a>

I did a quick Google search Hazbin Getbig pictures.
Here's some...
Pretty damn impressive man. A lot of mass but still kept that
tight waist.

   

 

2 things...
1. Paris was the closest thing to Steve Reeves to ever come along.
Reeves for the older guys like Sly Stallone and the guys that ran the mags
is like Arnold for the 30-50 year olds now because of his movies. Reeves is still
considered by many to be the ultimate male physique.
2. Unrelated, but Bob's best was when he won the National's and Universe.
Most expected him to improve on that but he never really did. He got in great
shape in some 1989 contests but still not as muscular as when he 1st turned pro.

The fact is that it is in the eye of the beholder but history
will show Coleman as a greater bodybuilder.
The only thing Dorian holds over Ronnie is that Ronnie never
beat him... although a 1997 Russian Grand Prix Ronnie would
have legitimately beaten the worst version of Dorian (his 1997
Olympia form.)
Ronnie on the other hand has more Sandows.
He has won more pro shows than any other bodybuilder.
The majority of people, experts and pros thinks he was superior.
This doesn't mean Ronnie was better but this is what history will preserve.   

Ronnie against Phil's best pose...