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51  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: The top three books on lifting on: April 18, 2014, 07:48:57 PM
Science and Practice of Strength Training, V. Zatsiorsky

A System of Multi-Year Training in Weightlifting, by A.S. Medvedyev

Supertraining by Yuri Verkhoshansky (Author), Mel Siff (Author)



52  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like on: April 18, 2014, 07:41:32 PM
Van, here is something I think you should read because coming from me isn't going to mean anything to you. As you know I'm a big westside fan as well as Louie Simmons. You do have guys like Chad Wesley Smith who downplays the Westside method in favor of his Juggernaut system but he's still young and although strong, I don't buy into his system simply because he hasn't been around long enough. But hey, if it works for someone then all the power to them. But I've been using the Westside template for years because it works. Of course I don't use it on everyone but as far as my athletes, I can't think of a better strength system. Circa max IMO, is just Max effort or 5% or so below.


There are three methods of strength training.

 1. Maximal effort method: lifting a maximal load against a maximal resistance.
 2. Repetition method: lifting a nonmaximal load to failure; during the final repetitions, the muscles develop the maximum force possible in a fatigued state.
 3. Dynamic effort: lifting a nonmaximal load with maximal speed.

 (See: Science and Practice of Strength Training, V. Zatsiorsky.)

 The max effort method is superior to the other common methods. It improves intermuscular and intramuscular coordination, because the body will adapt to only the stimulus placed upon it. The max effort method will produce the greatest strength gains. While it is not uncommon to suffer fatigue, high blood pressure at rest, anxiety, and depression from using this method, it is the most popular among top athletes and lifters. It should not be used for small exercises but for the clean, snatch, squat, bench, and deadlift.

 The old Soviet Union used it and Westside Barbell uses it for special exercises such as good mornings, box squats, rack pulls, and many forms of squatting. Because the body muscular system and the CNS adapt quickly, we do a new exercise each week to avoid accommodation. The core exercises must be close in biomechanical parameters to the classical lifts, power or Olympic. Doctor Squat said it best, “If light weights make you strong, why not lift just light weights?” Of course we know he was right, and that’s why the max effort method works best.

 Hill determined that the speed of movement is dependent on maximum muscular strength. Did you hear that, football strength coaches? Physics states that maximum force is attained when velocity is small. Consequently, maximum velocity is attained when external resistance is near zero (Theory and Practice of Physical Culture). Why do I bring this up? Do you want to be faster and stronger?

 A study in Strength and Power in Sport by P. Komi showed the greatest weightlifters in the world lifted the heaviest weights the slowest. This simply shows it is better to have a high level of strength over speed. I have been using this system at Westside since 1983. I started talking about the books I was learning from by Bud Charniga, who had translated them from Russian. Many have read some of the books, but have not considered the number of lifts, or the percentages that are determined with the Olympic lifts. This will not work with the power lifts.

 Olympic lifts have a bar speed of 1.2 to 1.4 meters per second (mps) in the first pull. A second pull of 2.2 mps can be attained. Top powerlifts are 0.5 to 0.7 mps. Olympic lifting is primarily a speed strength sport. The time under tension is brief. The powerlifts are quite a different story. It is a strength speed or slow strength sport. This means the training percentages would be somewhat higher. Even Olympic lifts are seldom less than 70% of a one-rep max.

 Statistics that showed the breakdown of Olympic lifts by percents of a one-rep max showed the distributions of loads as follows:

 49.5% of the lifts are from 75% to 85%

 27.1% of the lifts are above 85%

 Remember, this is based on Olympic lifts, which are much faster than powerlifts. While max force production occurs at 4 tenths of a second, you must maintain it until the lift is complete. As mentioned, 85% of a one-rep max is used the most, so we try to wave from 75% to 85% in three-week waves. Only 23.4% of the lifts are performed at 70% or below of a one-rep max. These statistics were based on 780 highly qualified weightlifters. The study was done by A. D. Ermakov and N. S. Atanasov in 1975.

 The Westside max effort method is a combination of the Bulgarian system, the former Soviet Union system, and my 43 years of powerlifting with over 85 Elite powerlifters. There are all body types in powerlifting, as you well know. The Soviet Union was very vast geographically, leading to different body types and ethnic groups to choose from. This means they used a lot of exercises to develop their lifters’ shortcomings. Sounds just like Westside.

 In the book Strength and Power in Sport by P. Komi, A. Vorobyev states that the Soviet team would do 20,000 lifts, classical and special combined, per year. Of those, 600 were maximal lifts (new records). The lifters were chosen after a three-year preparatory phase of base work was performed to ensure they were suited to handle the work loads, physical and psychologically. This is known as the “rule of three”. The Soviet weightlifters were more diversified than their Bulgarian counterparts.

 While the Soviet team was tremendous, the Bulgarian team was amazing, under coach Ivan Abadjiev. The Bulgarian team would choose only model weightlifters, meaning they fit the height and weight index. Bulgaria is about the size of Ohio. Both the junior and senior national teams trained together under a few coaches led tightly by Abadjiev. It was his way or no way. If a lifter could not handle the stress of constantly using max or near-max lifts, they were replaced, whereas the Soviet team did two workouts a day, which were composed of pulls, good mornings, and squats.

 Westside also trains two times a day; the difference is the second workout, which is directed toward a specific body part or parts, such as low back, lats, and abs or triceps, traps, and hammer curls. The Bulgarian coach, Abadjiev, chose to limit the training to six lifts: power snatch, snatch, power clean, clean and jerk, and front and back squat. After warming up they would do 6 max singles in the power snatch or snatch. This was done in 45 minutes to keep testosterone levels as high as possible. Then, they took a 30-minute rest and then did power clean and jerks, clean and jerks, or front or back squats. This amounts to 18 near-max lifts that are done every day, one in the morning session, again in the afternoon, and the third one in the evening. This added up to 18 near-max lifts in one day. The pulls and squats were trained this way all the time. Remember, they were very select in choosing the lifters who could handle the stress of training like this 6 days a week plus formally structured training on good mornings and back squats. Their system is what I based our max effort days on.

 Max effort days are lifting as heavy as possible depending on the lifter’s capabilities at the present time. This means that even though you may not be going to a contest, you are training like the lifters that are. Let’s look at the two systems. The majority of the Soviet training was centered around 75-85% of a one-rep max for about 50% of all lifts, and 20% are done at 90-100%. The Bulgarians trained mostly at 90-100% max. Circa-max weights are 90-97%. The Bulgarian system produced the highest results in weightlifting. Why? They handled the highest average weights most often. It’s that simple. Yes, they had used a very select group of lifters, but that system was the best.

 I had the pleasure of spending a day at Westside with a former Bulgarian weightlifting team doctor. He said many could not perform the tasks asked of the lifters. More times than not, it was the psychological stress and not the physical demands that stopped the lifter’s progress. I have seen the same at Westside. Handling weights above 90% for 3 weeks in the classical lifts can cause a lack of progress from accommodation or not varying the routine. At Westside, we change the max effort lift each week. This avoids the staleness syndrome, by doing exercises that are similar to but not actually the regular squat, bench press, and deadlift.

 Westside has developed a system of maxing out on nonclassical lifts. This allows us to eliminate the negative responses of training close to a maximum competition weight. The same negative response can occur with the special lifts Westside uses to max out on if we repeated the same lift each week. But remember we switch lifts every week to avoid this. You must remember the muscles and CNS adapt only to the load placed upon them. Zatsiorsky states that the maximal effort method brings forth the greatest strength increments, and CNS inhibition, if it exists, is reduced with this approach.

 Now we know that the max effort method is superior to others. One must train at the highest average of a one-rep max as often as possible. I realized for most lifters this is impossible to do every workout. That’s why we use the dynamic effort method. We use sub-maximal weights with maximal speed. Our squat training is mostly around 75-85% for multiple sets with briefs and a belt. Remember what Doctor Squat said? “If light weights work, why not use light weights?” But they don’t.

 When Chuck Vogelpohl trained at Westside, he handled the heaviest average weights when he squatted and deadlifted. He was our best squatter, setting world records in the 220 and 275 weight classes and now at 242 in a different gym. Now Greg Panora handles the heaviest weights if you average the squat, bench press, and deadlift, and he has dominated the 242 world record total. Look at Big Iron and I am sure you will see the same.

 Zatsiorsky states “It’s impossible to exert a large amount of force against a small mass.” Dr. Hatfield was right. The men and women who can recruit the most muscle units are the strongest. The maximal effort method does just that. The next best method is the circa-max method, which uses 90-97½ % of a one-rep max. The circa-max method differs in that it can include multiple sets of 1 or 2 reps per set up to 10 total lifts per workout. It is worth noting that the Bulgarians had great restoration methods, such as whirlpools, saunas, massage, and others at their disposal.

 You seldom calculate weights under 70%. The Soviets’ and Westside training is very similar in that the squats and pulls are mostly in the 75% to 85% range on dynamic day and always working up to a current max on max effort day. Remember, some supportive gear is almost always worn. On dynamic bench day, the percent is very low, 40-50%, but no gear is worn and there are always bands or chains on the bar. When the dynamic method is used, the muscles are contracted very fast and forcefully. I would personally experience more soreness on speed day. The dynamic method was developed to replace a max effort day for those who could not handle two max effort workouts a week. This helped me in the early years (1983) to recover from a bad back injury. I could not handle two max effort lower and upper body workouts per week, so we changed over to the dynamic method to make one day a fast day, not a light day, and keep the heavy day, or max effort day, because we knew the heaviest weight lifted in the gym would materialize into meet records if done correctly.

 On dynamic day, stay with the percent program. Use a suit with the straps down or briefs only. Train in a 3-week pendulum wave at 50-60% of a contest max. The following are examples:

 400 to 480 pounds training weight = 800 squat

 450 to 540 = 900 squat

 500 to 600 = 1000 squat

 Also use chains or bands.

 This is very systematic, but as you can see, with this mathematical formula the stronger squatter uses the heaviest weights; it’s that simple. So use the max effort method to set standards,.

 In 1974 Prilepin carried out a series of experiments with high-level weightlifters. One group trained at 70% of a one-rep max. The second group used 80% of a one-rep max, and a third group used weights at 90% of a one-rep max based on his recommendations. His research found training at 90% was the most effective, 80% was the next best, and the least effective was the 70% weight. The conclusion was that training at the greater weights produced the most significant gains. Prilepin also found the best results regarding percents came from using an optimal number of lifts: 18 lifts at 70%, 15 lifts at 80%, and 7 lifts at 90%.

 While this article is about max effort, the other day is just as important. Prilepin also found that it was less fatiguing to do a higher number of sets and a lower number of reps. The reverse will lead to a distortion of technique. This was taken from the textbook Physical Culture Institutes by A. M. Vorobiev.

 I hope these examples have shown you what is truly important about building absolute strength. It is based on both the dynamic and max effort day. As Lelikov proved, muscle strength increases more in execution at moderate tempo, while the fast lifts gave the lowest increase in strength. If you are wondering about only the classical lifts, Medvedyev found the same to be true in special exercises as well when one becomes more proficient in the classical lifts (Weightlifting and Methods of Teaching).



 
53  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like on: April 18, 2014, 02:21:19 PM
Ok, I want to to read the highlighted carefully. Then understand how painkillers can affect the breakdown of the CNS. I know it's used, but understand it anyway. Athletes exert the CNS everyday but they train for it. This what I'm having a hard time understanding from physiological sense.

We know there is a recovery period from set to set usually 3-5min on a ME day, be it bench, squat or deadlift. Of course here I'm going to use the Westside conjugate protocol. ME Upper, ME lower, DE upper, DE Lower. The goal each week is to break a record each week. I'll get back to this in a bit. But hold that thought.

So Van, all of this being said. If CNS recovery was that long how do you explain WS breaking records on a weekly basis? I also understand that records WON'T be broken every week but the intent is there. We follow a westside template in my gym and it works, a record is broken in some lift main lift each week.

54  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like on: April 18, 2014, 12:58:47 PM
Okay, let me set up a scenario for you. You benched like 530lbs in your youth, so you say. You set a goal for yourself, in one year you're going to bench 545lbs or die trying, nothing else will matter, everything else will take a backseat to this goal. You know you are 50 years old but fuck those who say it can't be done. You set up a one year peaking cycle. You injure yourself a few times in the year but press on upping the painkiller dose. The shoulder is worse than ever but you think there is a chance. On the day of you are full of ephedrine and desperation and somehow manage to hit your goal.

Are you ready to try again next week, I mean you only exerted yourself for a few seconds? Cheesy

My training partner is close to 50. Today he will attempt a 10lb raw lifetime deadlift max. He did a single squat on monday, felt he should probably take an easy deadlift session today and attempt next friday instead but he is afraid he might come down with something and then the whole year is lost. He will then start another training cycle... you can only hold peak form for so long, maybe a couple of weeks.

Ok, I want to to read the highlighted carefully. Then understand how painkillers can affect the breakdown of the CNS. I know it's used, but understand it anyway. Athletes exert the CNS everyday but they train for it. This what I'm having a hard time understanding from physiological sense.

We know there is a recovery period from set to set usually 3-5min on a ME day, be it bench, squat or deadlift. Of course here I'm going to use the Westside conjugate protocol. ME Upper, ME lower, DE upper, DE Lower. The goal each week is to break a record each week. I'll get back to this in a bit. But hold that thought.
55  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like on: April 18, 2014, 12:37:07 PM
When Coach talks about deadlifts he means this:



No joke. He was causing earthquakes in the LA area a few weeks ago doing "deadlifts". Cheesy

We do conventional deadlifts as well. There is a difference.
56  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: get a load of this asshole (eliot huls) - "how to use roids" on: April 18, 2014, 12:20:04 PM
i fucked your mother and your sister

Brilliant.
57  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Marijuana Vending Machine Unveiled In Colorado on: April 18, 2014, 12:19:12 PM
A country full of stoners. Yet another bright idea from the left Roll Eyes
58  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: get a load of this asshole (eliot huls) - "how to use roids" on: April 18, 2014, 12:16:46 PM
a professional strongman Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


even the top strongmen are working day jobs to survive


funny guy "professional strongman" lmao

He has a day job dummy. So I'll ask you again, besides posting bullshit on here all day and night (convinced this is a shared account) what have you done?
59  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: get a load of this asshole (eliot huls) - "how to use roids" on: April 18, 2014, 11:39:15 AM
cocky delusional asshole who doesnt even look big

He's a professional strongman. What have you done?
60  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like on: April 18, 2014, 08:49:02 AM
Point is simple. Coach isn't that clued up on powerlifting and therefore isn't the best person to listen to regarding the issues of recovery, training methods etc in the sport.

If you want to know those kind of things in powerlifting, you'd be better listening to the likes of Van B, Fortress, Chaos etc.

Better yet, Mike Wolfe. It's really funny when someone makes a mistake someone is all of the sudden deemed not knowledgeable. I'll be posting on this throughout the day as time permits. But the recovery issue on this is complete bullshit.
61  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like on: April 17, 2014, 11:35:26 PM
LOL, no you are not fine after extremely heavy sets... LOL no way. It's like this, take a powerlifter setting a world record... it may take MONTHS to recover from the few seconds of exertion. Pumping till you puke is brutal but recovering from low reps is a challenge too. Nervous system takes a beating, mentally you take beating. My training partner set a PR single in the squat last friday, he did nothing else, warming up for 90 minutes, then hit the PR. He has trained for 30 years, competed at an elite level for a long time. He was shaking for a couple of hours after that... felling beat up all weekend. Cheesy Told me he needs to downcycle his training for several months to recover. This ain't no guy afraid of hard work, an absolute animal in the gym.

Platz did "deat sets" in the squat for high reps but he could only do this twice a month. A guy who says he trains to the absolute limit twice weekly is not going all out, I guarantee that.

I just saw this. I'm having a hard time with this first paragraph or so. Takes months to recover from a few seconds??? Really? How did you physiologically come up with this?
62  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like on: April 17, 2014, 11:29:38 PM
Yes of course he can be right. But the point is he has an opinion on something he never did himself. So is personal experience always necessary?

If it is then Coach can only advice on reaching this level. A tiny tit, a good looking tiny tit but a tiny tit nonetheless Cheesy:



Thanks Van, I just turned 21 like a week or two before that was taken. Are you saying I already reached my physical potential then??
63  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Coach Joe is going to share with getbig what a real PRO stack looks like on: April 17, 2014, 11:20:04 PM
Have you seen any pictures of Coach lately?  His midsection is probably over 40"...I like the guy, but he could stand to lose 20-30 pounds.

As to your second point, there's a lot of things that have changed since the 70s-80s.  Sure, the influx of gh/insulin is one of them, but diet, training styles, and drug protocols are also quite different.


So many uninformed people on here. 1. I don't really train for bodybuilding anymore. More powerlifting/strongman but, yes even at 230 and 51 years old I still have clearly visible abs.

No, not even close to 40 but even if it was my chest is still probably close to 52-53 but that's irrelevant.

Being lean is great, staying that way is nearly impossible. You guys that are ultra lean. Enjoy it, it ain't gonna last long. Yes, this includes go 4 it. If it does stay that way, you may have an eating disorder and stay weak.
64  Getbig Main Boards / General Topics / Re: More global warming bushit on: April 17, 2014, 08:51:03 PM
So what does you being a drug pusher, with a steroid addicted wife have to do with policies?

Start another thread on it. This one here is about politics. Before anyone says it's a global warming thread, "global warming" is purely political.

65  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Steroid/Insulin/GH/etc stack for Orlando Europa 2014 on: April 17, 2014, 08:48:41 PM
i always like ur build 'classic pics here'the heavier version in these pics had thickpowerful look to them ,you changed your build look due to heavier training from your 80's look.it had less to do with 'drugs'you seem to love training moreso..out of the 3 here u def have thicker side chest and bigger overall and nice flow ,if you were few lbs lighter could have changed your placing big time,the other 2 guys are harder looking not neccessarily better on a genetic shape standpoint or size just deeper seperation /conditioning at least in that shot..

I agree, but it was a bodybuilding contest not a men's fitness contest. I have always trained heavy....on everything. I also agree I should have been about 5-8lbs lighter.
66  Getbig Main Boards / General Topics / Re: More global warming bushit on: April 17, 2014, 08:44:49 PM
It's more real than your wife's muscles. 

Is this the best you can do, lib? No wonder why 99.9% of your policies fail.
67  Getbig Main Boards / General Topics / Re: More global warming bushit on: April 17, 2014, 06:25:22 PM
Yeah, that's what happens when the ice caps melt fool.

How's your wives cycle going? She was looking jack'd the last time I saw her.

Global warming is almost more of a gimmick than the fitness industry...lol
68  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: This is why i squat on: April 17, 2014, 04:59:48 PM
.

69  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: This is why i squat on: April 17, 2014, 04:55:39 PM
Been seeing girls in the gym wearing these. Clever marketing.



Is that you? You have a nice ass Grin
70  Getbig Main Boards / General Topics / Re: More global warming bushit on: April 17, 2014, 01:11:10 PM
 Cheesy

71  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Steroid/Insulin/GH/etc stack for Orlando Europa 2014 on: April 17, 2014, 11:19:03 AM
that im sure you would be. Äi in your latest contest pics everyonr could see that you had lots of muscles, besides a couple of weeks off  i was really impressed and i dont think you did  high doses either

But my point is we dont know how long he had be on that cycle, maybe he just started it 2 weeks before or he sucks in the genetic department and have been on a long time.

This was on less than a gram. No, I wasn't the best conditioned (and not the worst) but I was one of the biggest in the line up. In the masters class, I felt I shouldn't have placed where I placed, I should have placed in the top five ( was one point out of the top five. same with the open class) I also felt the winner of the Masters Class won on name only.


72  Getbig Main Boards / General Topics / Re: More global warming bushit on: April 17, 2014, 09:10:18 AM
What does that matter? march was the hottest month ever recorded you incredible moron.

Being able to look out your window doesn't make you an expert.

I'm hearing record snow in the mid west today. Haha @ Polar ice caps melting lol
73  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Steroid/Insulin/GH/etc stack for Orlando Europa 2014 on: April 17, 2014, 09:06:20 AM
yeah the cykle is crazy what i meant was that  you cant rule out high dose roiding just because he looks like that we dont know if he just started with thqt cykle and used to do 500mg before or if he has shitty genetics and been on crazy heawyweight bb cykles like that for years.

If I was on a cycle like that I would be 270 in about 6 weeks. This kid barely looks 210-220 at best.
74  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: Just paid $38k in state taxes... on: April 16, 2014, 10:21:53 PM
So I kinda own one teacher in Cali... wonder how many mexi freebies she/he "teaches" to..

You paid that in STATE tax??
75  Getbig Main Boards / Gossip & Opinions / Re: High school kid squatting 615lbs!! on: April 16, 2014, 10:04:10 PM
lol i love this guy

He loves you too.
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