Author Topic: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani  (Read 1845 times)

Colossus_500

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Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« on: May 09, 2007, 12:51:17 PM »
Beach, you called this one a mile away.  On a national stage, things are going to get tough for Rudy.   :-\  Check out this article from Newsmax.

Giuliani Gave Six Times to Planned Parenthood

 
Presidential hopeful Rudolph Giuliani’s effort to distance himself from his past support of abortion rights has taken a blow with the revelation that he contributed money to Planned Parenthood – the top provider of abortions in the United States.

According to Federal records obtained by The Politico, Giuliani and his then-wife Donna Hanover gave donations to national, state and city chapters of the organization at least six times in 1993, 1994, 1998 and 1999, with the contributions totaling $900.

"Giuliani’s contributions could echo throughout the 2008 GOP nomination battle, as he seeks to lessen the political impact of his support for abortions rights – an unpopular position among social conservatives,” Politico notes.

Campaigning last month in South Carolina, Giuliani declared: "I’m against abortion. I hate it. I wish there never was an abortion and I would counsel a woman to have an adoption instead of an abortion.”

More recently, he said at the first Republican presidential debate that "it’d be O.K.” if Roe v. Wade were overturned, although he also said he wouldn’t have a problem if the Court let the decision stand.

Asked to reconcile Giuliani’s opposition to abortion with his contributions to Planned Parenthood, spokeswoman Maria Comella told Politico: "Mayor Giuliani has been consistent in his position – he is personally opposed to abortion, but at the same time he understands it is a personal and emotional decision that should ultimately be left up to the woman.”

But Clemson University political science professor Dave Woodard, a Republican, said contributing money to Planned Parenthood would put Giuliani "in a very precarious position, at least in the South Carolina Republican Party.

"An overt act of giving money shows support for a position. That can’t be a mistake or misinterpretation.”

In 2005, the last year for which figures are available, Planned Parenthood performed 264,943 abortions.


headhuntersix

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2007, 01:00:29 PM »
The republican base wants a conservative and somebody who can distance themselves from the recent disaster runnng the country. Rudy is not giving them..us anything.
L

Dos Equis

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2007, 04:37:34 PM »
Beach, you called this one a mile away.  On a national stage, things are going to get tough for Rudy.   :-\  Check out this article from Newsmax.


Yeah.  Give money to an abortion advocacy group, but claim to be pro life.  I don't see how he gets out of the primary with this kind of doublespeak: 

Campaigning last month in South Carolina, Giuliani declared: "I’m against abortion. I hate it. I wish there never was an abortion and I would counsel a woman to have an adoption instead of an abortion.”

 ::)

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2007, 09:28:00 PM »
Yea, he was completely shown to be a liar and a hypocrite.  He gave money to a group which commits, by his own admission, murder.  It's the worst kind of flipflop (short of him having an abortion) he could have.

Unfortunately, thanks to the war being the biggest issue, and economy 2,3,4 on the list...

Rudy will probably skate on this one.  Cause the party would rather win with a man they believe *donated to help fund murder of unborn children* than lose the election with a lesser candidate.

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2007, 09:41:04 PM »
Mitt Romney changed his views on abortion too, and recently.

Turns out in 1994 - The Romneys ALSO donated to Planned Parenthood.  however, after seeing Rudy take the hit, Mitt was smart enough to let his wife take the credit for the donation.  yes, that's right.  Mitt says he has no recollection of it, and the wife admits SHE donated the money.  If it was a joint tax return, and the donor is unclear.... well... it's gonna be quite awfully convenient.

This is from ABC news tonight.  Yikes! 

gcb

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2007, 10:15:52 PM »
All politicians lie, be it from the left or the right. They have thier own hidden agendas which they aren't gonna tell anybody about.

Colossus_500

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2007, 08:40:47 AM »
Mitt Romney changed his views on abortion too, and recently.

Turns out in 1994 - The Romneys ALSO donated to Planned Parenthood.  however, after seeing Rudy take the hit, Mitt was smart enough to let his wife take the credit for the donation.  yes, that's right.  Mitt says he has no recollection of it, and the wife admits SHE donated the money.  If it was a joint tax return, and the donor is unclear.... well... it's gonna be quite awfully convenient.

This is from ABC news tonight.  Yikes! 

Either way, Romney may be alongside of Guliani. 

Actually, I don't mind these two being out of the picture, because it forces the GOP to look at candidates like Mike Huckabee, Tom Tancredo, Newt Gingrich, or Fred Thompson (if these two run).

Dos Equis

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2007, 08:45:16 AM »
 :-\

Wednesday, May 9, 2007 10:01 p.m. EDT
Giuliani Set to Fully Embrace Abortion

Republican Presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani will fully embrace support for abortion in the coming days, according to a report in Thursday's editions of The New York Times.

The paper noted that "after months of giving ambiguous signals on abortion," Giuliani will begin to articulate a "forthright affirmation of his support for abortion rights."

In public remarks, Giuliani has emphasized his own, personal distaste for abortion. He has also noted that though he has supported a woman's right to choose, he would also appoint Supreme Court Justices in the strict construction mold, presumably those who could limit abortion rights.

In recent days Giuliani's positon on abortion has drawn significant political static. During the first Republican debate, Giuliani said he would oppose overturning Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion.

And this week his staff dealt with a flurry of controversy after it was revealed Giuliani contributed six times to Planned Parenthood, an abortion provider.

With about one-third of Republican primary voters identifying themselves as pro-choice, and Giuliani being the lone candidate abortion rights, his strategists believe he can still win the GOP's nomination despite his liberal social views.

Giuliani's team reportedly is "de-emphasizing" pro-life states like New Hampshire and will focus on more larger states where his views on abortion will be less worrisome, states like California, Florida, New York and New Jersey.
 
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/5/9/220243.shtml?s=ic

Dos Equis

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2007, 10:39:15 PM »

Campaigning last month in South Carolina, Giuliani declared: "I’m against abortion. I hate it. I wish there never was an abortion and I would counsel a woman to have an adoption instead of an abortion.”

“Ultimately, there has to be a right to chose," Giuliani said Wednesday in Alabama. Asked by reporters if Republicans will accept that position, he added: “I guess we are going to find out."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,271314,00.html

He is all over the place. 

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 10:56:55 PM »
The United States is facing so many problems, and some people are more worried about making decisions that don't really even concern them.  ::)
S

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2007, 11:21:07 PM »
The United States is facing so many problems, and some people are more worried about making decisions that don't really even concern them.  ::)

Dude this issue is huge.  It is the single most important issue when it comes to Supreme Court nominees.  There are likely four votes to overturn Roe v. Wade on the Supreme Court right now:  Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, and Alito.  The two most likely to retire or die are Stevens and Ginsberg, both liberals.  The next prez may very well determine whether Roe v. Wade remains the law of the land.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2007, 11:25:31 PM »
Dude this issue is huge.  It is the single most important issue when it comes to Supreme Court nominees.  There are likely four votes to overturn Roe v. Wade on the Supreme Court right now:  Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, and Alito.  The two most likely to retire or die are Stevens and Ginsberg, both liberals.  The next prez may very well determine whether Roe v. Wade remains the law of the land.

You're totally right, I actually kind of had a meltdown about something else when I posted this.  I don't support killing babies, our civilized society is way above that.  I just can't believe the other things that our happening right now that so many people just over look.
S

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2007, 04:39:48 PM »
So . . . he's pro choice this week. 

May 11, 6:22 PM EDT

Giuliani Defends Stance on Abortion
By JOE STINEBAKER
Associated Press Writer
 
HOUSTON (AP) -- Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani forcefully reaffirmed his support for abortion rights on Friday and argued that his divergence from conservatives on the issue should not disqualify him from being the eventual GOP nominee.

"This is a matter of deep and profound judgment," he said in a speech at Houston Baptist University. "It's a matter of morals. It's a matter of your interpretation of how laws should operate, your interpretation of how respect for the rights of others should operate. But in a country like ours ... I believe you have to respect their viewpoint and give them a level of choice. I would grant women the right to make that choice."

The former New York City mayor has struggled in the last week to explain his personal opposition to abortion with his long public record of favoring a woman's right to choose. He has defended his positions - and some say contradictory comments - on late-term abortion, public funding for abortions and the 1973 Supreme Court ruling that legalized abortion.

But Giuliani left few questions about his position Friday, telling about 500 students and faculty at the small conservative school that - despite his belief that abortion was "morally wrong" - he believes the decision should ultimately be left to individuals and their decisions should be respected.

Opposition to abortion has been a litmus test for conservatives within the Republican Party, who hold considerable sway in the primaries. Giuliani has drawn criticism from some in the GOP for his abortion rights support. One of his rivals, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, has switched from supporting abortion rights to opposing the procedure - a shift that also has drawn complaints.

Another rival, Sam Brownback, said Friday that an abortion rights Republican would have trouble winning the nomination. His comments echoed those of another candidate, Sen. John McCain of Arizona.

"It is a pro-life party, with a pro-choice wing," said the Kansas senator, who spoke during a taping of Iowa Public Television's "Iowa Press" program. "I think he has great trouble winning off of that position."

Brownback also criticized Romney's switch.

"I do think what will be a deal-breaker is if you flip on core issues like life, taxes, second amendment rights," he said.

Giuliani, acknowledging that his position on abortion differed from that of most of his audience, urged them to consider his views on other issues as well before deciding whether to support his candidacy.

"You have a right to evaluate this in figuring out if you can support me, and at what level you can support me," Giuliani said. "Everybody's got to make a choice. How important are the differences and then how important are the other issues that are involved in this election?"

Giuliani emphasized his conservative credentials on tax cuts, crime and the war in Iraq. He said his eight years as mayor of New York showed he could apply conservative social and economic principles even in the face of substantial opposition.

HBU President Robert Sloan said the Giuliani campaign called the university on Wednesday and asked if the candidate could speak there this week. Sloan said that, although campaign officials would not discuss why they had chosen HBU, he believed it was because Giuliani "wanted to forthrightly speak on social issues in an audience where religious matters and moral issues truly matter."

Several students praised Giuliani's speech, but said it was unlikely to make them support his candidacy.

"Overall, I thought it was a great speech," said Erik Mignault, a 25-year-old political science major at HBU. "I agree that we're not going to agree 100 percent with all candidates. I think it was a good political stance to take. He's sitting right in the middle."

But Mignault and several other students said they were anti-abortion and likely to support a more conservative GOP candidate.

Giuliani's appearance was greeted warmly, and he appeared playful at times, hoisting a child with an "I Love New York" T-shirt and laughing at boos when he spoke of his love for the New York Yankees, the team that this week acquired Houston Astros star pitcher Roger Clemens.

But Giuliani told the audience that they should support a candidate who could protect America from terrorism and from Democratic assaults on the economy. He acknowledged that abortion was the issue that most divided them.

"I have profound respect for your views," he said. "I have profound respect for your education, and I have profound respect for your religion." But, he said, it is uniquely American to disagree on some political issues while agreeing on many others.

"We understand how to respect each other's differences," he said.

---
 
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GIULIANI_ABORTION?SITE=HIHAD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2007, 12:50:33 AM »
i think he's doing the bold, yet smart move here.  he's making his base adjust, as he's probably the most winnable guy in the party at the moment.  even tho it did take him getting outed as a hypocrite to do it.

i still think he'll be the repub candidate.

Dos Equis

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2007, 11:59:15 AM »
The only thing that may help him survive the primary is the field of weak Republican candidates.  I suspect Romney may be the dark horse. 

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2007, 01:56:21 PM »
“Ultimately, there has to be a right to chose," Giuliani said Wednesday in Alabama. Asked by reporters if Republicans will accept that position, he added: “I guess we are going to find out."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,271314,00.html

He is all over the place. 

I think he will gain popularity for his stance in the abortion matter.

If the Republicans are smart enough to elect him as their candidate, he could get a lot of swing voters.

GOP needs Giuliani. If they don't pick him, they're stupid.

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2007, 04:42:51 PM »
You're totally right, I actually kind of had a meltdown about something else when I posted this.  I don't support killing babies, our civilized society is way above that.  I just can't believe the other things that our happening right now that so many people just over look.

Jesus fuck man.. Whether or not you consider a slab of meat an actual person is debatable..

My moral values from within and my respect for humanity tell me that it's wrong, but isn't forcing a woman into a 9 month cycle of pain just as barbaric as an abortion? Except that the woman is a grown adult, while the fetus is not even developed yet and is being brought into a world where he is not wanted by his own mother.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2007, 04:59:42 PM »
My moral values from within and my respect for humanity tell me that it's wrong, but isn't forcing a woman into a 9 month cycle of pain just as barbaric as an abortion? Except that the woman is a grown adult, while the fetus is not even developed yet and is being brought into a world where he is not wanted by his own mother.

You're total right as well.  I must not know how I feel on this issue.  I do believe it's down right murder after a baby has begun to develop though.

 :-\
S

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2007, 09:56:41 PM »
Jesus fuck man.. Whether or not you consider a slab of meat an actual person is debatable..

My moral values from within and my respect for humanity tell me that it's wrong, but isn't forcing a woman into a 9 month cycle of pain just as barbaric as an abortion? Except that the woman is a grown adult, while the fetus is not even developed yet and is being brought into a world where he is not wanted by his own mother.

No.  The only thing barbaric about pregnancy is labor and delivery.   :)  I don't think there is much of a comparison between an abortion, which kills a baby, and a nine month pregnancy that results in the birth of a baby. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Abortion Issue is going to Hurt Rudy Guliani
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2007, 10:00:56 PM »
You're total right as well.  I must not know how I feel on this issue.  I do believe it's down right murder after a baby has begun to develop though.

 :-\

Check out this site.  http://www.babycenter.com/fetaldevelopment

The baby starts to develop right after conception, but starts to look like a baby in the second month of pregnancy. 

And look at months 4 through 9.  Is there any doubt you're looking at a baby?