Excerpt from my pre marital counseling session.

[Hustle Man]

This is one of the many hand outs I received from my marriage counselors (A Husband and Wife Counseling team). I think they are reaching here.  I kinda feel like they are leading us (my mate and I)  to be disingenuous with one another.

Please express your thoughts on this!

How to find the positive side to your mate’s “negative” traits.

Negative      Positive

1. Noisy =      She may be very attentive or outgoing.
2. Touchy=   She may be very sensitive.
3. Manipulating=   She may be a very resourceful with many creative ideas.
4. Stingy   =   She may be very thrifty.
5. Talkative=   She may be very expressive and dramatic.
6. Capricious=   She may be an enthusiastic person with cheerful vitality.
7. Too Serious=   She may be a very sincere and earnest person with strong convictions.
8. Too Bold   =She may have strong convictions, uncompromising with her own standards.
9. Rigid   =       She may be a well-disciplined person with strong convictions.
10. Overbearing=   She may be a very confident person-sure of herself.
11. A Dreamer=   She may be very creative and imaginative.
12. Too Fussy=   She may be very organized and efficient.

[Hustle Man]

It's all open-ended communication with the intention of seeing the best of your mate's worst traits.

Nothing new here.

If I ever go in to marriage counseling, I'm never going to use these type of gimmicks.

They are for very stupid people who can't think for themselves, nor work on issues after the counseling sessions are over.

BottomLine:  if you NEED these exercises, you probably aren't going to work out as a couple because you really don't know each other that well.



DIV

You know man... never mind, I will be positive here and pretend you are not directing this at me so...

I agree with you, damn can you believe that? But I think pre marital is a good thing but maybe not this couple we are going to though.

[DIVISION]

You know man... never mind, I will be positive here and pretend you are not directing this at me so...

I agree with you, damn can you believe that? But I think pre marital is a good thing but maybe not this couple we are going to though.

Don't take offense baby Hustle....

I'm looking at it from a counselor's perspective.

I wouldn't use this type of aid to deal with a couple......it's dumbing down the real issues and very passive aggressive.

Direct communication works best and cuts through the bullshit.

If you can't speak frankly between the two of you about what the real issues are, then an outside perspective won't help you.

Honesty is best.   


DIV

[Laura Lee]

Sometimes DIV it's not what you say...but the way you say it.  Some couples do talk and that is part of the problem.  When they talk they may not be conveying what they are really trying to get across.  Some couples don't talk and definitely need help getting themself to feel comfortable enough to talk.  I used to have a boyfriend that whenever I had something to say that bothered me...he would turn it all around and it made me feel like the things I were feeling were not worthy of speaking of or stupid.  After years of going through that I learned to "not" talk about how or what I was feeling.  And that became another issue.  Sometimes just having a neutral party listen and help you communicate is the best thing and has saved numerous marriages/relationships.  And just like you there are many people that think it's a dumb idea and doesn't solve anything, but you are never going to know unless you are willing to try every available option (if you are in a failing relationship).  The fact that one will do that means they are willing to work harder to make the relationship work.

[drkaje]

Don't take offense baby Hustle....

I'm looking at it from a counselor's perspective.

I wouldn't use this type of aid to deal with a couple......it's dumbing down the real issues and very passive aggressive.

Direct communication works best and cuts through the bullshit.

If you can't speak frankly between the two of you about what the real issues are, then an outside perspective won't help you.

Honesty is best.   


DIV

I don't quite agree.

Honesty is the foundation of a good relation but people sometimes need help to learn each other's language.

[Hustle Man]

Don't take offense baby Hustle....

I'm looking at it from a counselor's perspective.

I wouldn't use this type of aid to deal with a couple......it's dumbing down the real issues and very passive aggressive.

Direct communication works best and cuts through the bullshit.

If you can't speak frankly between the two of you about what the real issues are, then an outside perspective won't help you.

Honesty is best.   


DIV

Damn man you need to chill out, come from behind the protection of the internet for just a few threads! I am (we are) trying to learn things I didn't know before in my (our past) relationship/s why do you insist that unless its done (bluntly) or your way its weak or...


Look I love and care enough about this woman enough that I am willing to get counseling prior to final commitment, if you have a problem with that don't read this thread and oh BTW I will be in Mesa, Az. there next month (staying at the Golf resort) maybe we can meet and work out our differences then!? I realize with some people you have to earn respect 

[drkaje]

Damn man you need to chill out, come from behind the protection of the internet for just a few threads! I am (we are) trying to learn things I didn't know before in my (our past) relationship/s why do you insist that unless its done (bluntly) or your way its weak or...


Look I love and care enough about this woman enough that I am willing to get counseling prior to final commitment, if you have a problem with that don't read this thread and oh BTW I will be in Mesa, Az. there next month (staying at the Golf resort) maybe we can meet and work out our differences then!? I realize with some people you have to earn respect 

Don't let him get you twisted on pale chicks.

[DIVISION]

I don't quite agree.

Honesty is the foundation of a good relation but people sometimes need help to learn each other's language.

I agree, though, I wonder why they didn't come to this conclusion during the course of the relationship?

Communication is key, esp in the beginning.

How did they get this far without it?

Damn man you need to chill out, come from behind the protection of the internet for just a few threads! I am (we are) trying to learn things I didn't know before in my (our past) relationship/s why do you insist that unless its done (bluntly) or your way its weak or...

I just don't agree with the gimmick your counselors are using....

A bit too topical and evasive for me.

The protection of the internet has nothing to do with it........I regularly counsel people I train.

I would say the same thing in person, whether you liked it or not.

That's how I am.



DIV

[Hustle Man]

I agree, though, I wonder why they didn't come to this conclusion during the course of the relationship?

Communication is key, esp in the beginning.

How did they get this far without it?

I just don't agree with the gimmick your counselors are using....

A bit too topical and evasive for me.

The protection of the internet has nothing to do with it........I regularly counsel people I train.

I would say the same thing in person, whether you liked it or not.

That's how I am.



DIV

I agree with you communication is the key but surely you must know people change, their views change so the important thing is to learn how to grow with the changes and not to disregard or invalidate your partner's feelings and/or opinions. You better learn to season your words with respect kid especially if you truly love your partner and want to spend the rest of your life with that person. Being brutally honest is not always the best response and if you think you can say whatever is on your mind to a woman and expect her to respect you, you better think again son. If God ever blesses you with a daughter I hope for your sake you learn a better way to talk to her because if you don't she will end up in a place that will cut your heart deep.

Keep counseling where you have experience, because unless you are or have been married or have kids you can't school me! My life's resume is long and I have experienced much around the globe! So again I say watch and listen son!

[CQ]

Keep counseling where you have experience, because unless you are or have been married or have kids you can't school me! My life's resume is long and I have experienced much around the globe! So again I say watch and listen son!

Agreed. If I want advice on child rearing, I'll take all sources...good ideas can come from everywhere, but I am more likely to listen to someone who has parented, and done well than some childless person sitting in an office. It's hard for people without substantial life experience to appreciate the value of it though, as they don't realize the richness of the experience. The folly of youth as they say, although it can occur with all ages. I go through that with my stepchild, much as I adore her.

[Hustle Man]

You're the one in marriage counseling, bro, so don't preach to me.

You have no standing......


DIV

LMAO! So what you are saying is unless someone has lead a mistake free life they are not qualified to give advice? If you think that you are living a lie because I am sure you have made many mistakes, no matter how subtle or minor they may have been! It may be that in your chosen profession you are well respected and I applaud you in your accomplishments but take heed youngster, only a fool would think he is above receiving advice from someone with the battle scars of life. I can tell you have only lived a little!

[Laura Lee]

We grow through childhood and adolescents being told what is good and bad for us...but...we do them anyway and then learn from our mistakes.

We go through adulthood taking heed in what we have learned from "our" mistakes and "others".

No one is born with all knowledge.

[Hustle Man]

You're the one in marriage counseling, bro, so don't preach to me.

You have no standing......

DIV

It's PRE-Marital get it straight!

We grow through childhood and adolescents being told what is good and bad for us...but...we do them anyway and then learn from our mistakes.

We go through adulthood taking heed in what we have learned from "our" mistakes and "others".

No one is born with all knowledge.

My point exactly!

Agreed. If I want advice on child rearing, I'll take all sources...good ideas can come from everywhere, but I am more likely to listen to someone who has parented, and done well than some childless person sitting in an office. It's hard for people without substantial life experience to appreciate the value of it though, as they don't realize the richness of the experience. The folly of youth as they say, although it can occur with all ages. I go through that with my stepchild, much as I adore her.

This is what I was trying to convey to Mr. Brash (AKA DIV) here! This is one of the reasons we decided to go to a counseling duo (a married couple) who has been married for 20+ yrs, raised their children; and of course a counseling background that's biblically based! Anyway, thanks for the input CQ.

[Hustle Man]

I'm open to advice from others, provided they have the background and intelligence to give it.

I'm discriminate in that way, though.

Have I made mistakes?

Sure I have, but nothing that lead to kids or baggage that I still carry with me.

If anything, I've learned from past relationships.........an d I proceed with caution.

I live with heart wide open, but I still remember........


DIV

Are you trying to say my kids were a mistake because the marriage ended in a divorce? Poor fella you really have a narrow mind to even suggest such a thing! But I forgive you, you are at best ignorant and infantile to life and the opposite sex! Women are just an object to for you to judge. You will learn one day bro and then again maybe you won't! Maybe the woman that could change your life (and it is possible) will be turned away by your cold heartedness, What a sad existence bro all that hatred in you and at such a young age I feel for you man. 

[Hustle Man]

The kids aren't a mistake, but they are definitely baggage from a prior relationship.

There's no question about that, baby hustle.

Can't really call yourself a hustler if you have kids from another relationship.   

I'm not a hustler, but then again, I never claimed to be.


DIV

Again your immaturity speaks! My kids are gifts not baggage, baggage means burden and they are in no way a burden but true blessings. They have enhanced my new relationship they add to, not take away.  You put a negative spin on everything and this is indicative of your present heart condition, so again I forgive you! Grow up young man, be nice and respectful to your elders. One day you will have to reap what you have sewn, maybe you need a good dose of humility to bring you back to earth where the rest of us humans reside maybe then  you can be the nice guy you were created to be but until then you are nothing but a worm with teeth! so be careful where you tread O fragile one.

FYI "Hustle Man" refers to my ability to circumvent obstacles I have encountered throughout my life now until you learn that skill you are in a world of hurt. Watch, Listen and learn my pubescent foe!

[Laura Lee]

The kids aren't a mistake, but they are definitely baggage from a prior relationship.

There's no question about that, baby hustle.

Can't really call yourself a hustler if you have kids from another relationship.   

I'm not a hustler, but then again, I never claimed to be.

DIV

KIDS are not "baggage" and how dare you refer to them as such.     When you refer to someone's baggage...you should be referring to the past problems/drama and kids are not a past problem. 

[CQ]

KIDS are not "baggage" and how dare you refer to them as such.     When you refer to someone's baggage...you should be referring to the past problems/drama and kids are not a past problem. 

Again your immaturity speaks! My kids are gifts not baggage, baggage means burden and they are in no way a burden but true blessings. They have enhanced my new relationship they add to, not take away. 

Exactly.

My 1st husband had a kid, and she quickly became a huge source of joy to me and still is. She is NOT 'baggage' in the slightest but my pride and joy, as I'm sure Laura's kids, Hustle's kids and DrKaje's kids are as well.

Some people are just so inconsiderate and selfish they can't see past themselves

[Hustle Man]

Exactly.

Some people are just so inconsiderate and selfish they can't see past themselves

This will be his undoing lol!

[DIVISION]

Again your immaturity speaks! My kids are gifts not baggage, baggage means burden and they are in no way a burden but true blessings. They have enhanced my new relationship they add to, not take away.  You put a negative spin on everything and this is indicative of your present heart condition, so again I forgive you! Grow up young man, be nice and respectful to your elders. One day you will have to reap what you have sewn, maybe you need a good dose of humility to bring you back to earth where the rest of us humans reside maybe then  you can be the nice guy you were created to be but until then you are nothing but a worm with teeth! so be careful where you tread O fragile one.

FYI "Hustle Man" refers to my ability to circumvent obstacles I have encountered throughout my life now until you learn that skill you are in a world of hurt. Watch, Listen and learn my pubescent foe!

.......did you say something, hustle man?

Preaching is for church elders......and I'm not religious.

Principled, but not religious.

I haven't made the mistakes you have and I hope I don't need to.

I know enough 30-ish people with kids, exes......etc.

That's not me, bro.   



DIV

[Hustle Man]

.......did you say something, hustle man? Why yes I did!

Preaching is for church elders......and I'm not religious. You don't need to be religious to listen to wise counsel or get understanding.

Principled, but not religious. Your principles are based on self defense and being offensive, because you have been hurt and you don't wanna let that happen again! I know guys like you all to well I have seen your type hell, I work with some one just like you always ready to strike. You are miserable just like he is!

I haven't made the mistakes you have and I hope I don't need to. What mistakes are you referring to, getting married or having kids before the fall? Everyone has their share of mistakes to make, how else do you suppose to gain wisdom? Keep living you will make mistakes and those mistakes will correlate to your lack of wisdom! But as you live and learn you will make less mistakes.

I know enough 30-ish people with kids, exes......etc. LOL Until you have your own children you haven't experienced parenthood! Just because someone baby sits does not mean they make a good parent get real bud! That ALMOST like saying you know what it's like to ride a bike because you know someone who has a bike lol sure they will tell you their ups and downs, you may even see them fall off a few times but you will never know what riding a bike is like until you experience what it takes to learn to ride  and master the balancing act of riding a bike! You should not say such silly things.

That's not me, bro.     I know you have a long way to go my foe!


DIV

You know Div, on the real side I think you are a halfway decent and respectable person its a shame most of the women that post here are used to seeing the not so decent/respectable side of you. Ask them they will tell you!

[Samourai Pizzacat]

This is one of the many hand outs I received from my marriage counselors (A Husband and Wife Counseling team). I think they are reaching here.  I kinda feel like they are leading us (my mate and I)  to be disingenuous with one another.

Please express your thoughts on this!

How to find the positive side to your mate’s “negative” traits.

Negative      Positive

1. Noisy =      She may be very attentive or outgoing.
2. Touchy=   She may be very sensitive.
3. Manipulating=   She may be a very resourceful with many creative ideas.
4. Stingy   =   She may be very thrifty.
5. Talkative=   She may be very expressive and dramatic.
6. Capricious=   She may be an enthusiastic person with cheerful vitality.
7. Too Serious=   She may be a very sincere and earnest person with strong convictions.
8. Too Bold   =She may have strong convictions, uncompromising with her own standards.
9. Rigid   =       She may be a well-disciplined person with strong convictions.
10. Overbearing=   She may be a very confident person-sure of herself.
11. A Dreamer=   She may be very creative and imaginative.
12. Too Fussy=   She may be very organized and efficient.

First off, these are interpretations of perceived behaviour (it's a double pitfall) so be very careful, you might be way off the mark.

Relationships are much about accepting people the way they are, taking the good with the bad. You can try to see the positive side of a certain bad trait, it's still hard not to be annoyed by it. I'd approach these situations on a person per person basis. the above list might be good filling for a mag, but not as counseling tool.

P.S. the longer I look at the list the more alternative explanations I see....

[Hustle Man]

First off, these are interpretations of perceived behaviour (it's a double pitfall) so be very careful, you might be way off the mark.

Relationships are much about accepting people the way they are, taking the good with the bad. You can try to see the positive side of a certain bad trait, it's still hard not to be annoyed by it. I'd approach these situations on a person per person basis. the above list might be good filling for a mag, but not as counseling tool.

P.S. the longer I look at the list the more alternative explanations I see....

We found another counselor. But I agree with you.

[24KT]

I agree with you communication is the key but surely you must know people change, their views change so the important thing is to learn how to grow with the changes and not to disregard or invalidate your partner's feelings and/or opinions. You better learn to season your words with respect kid especially if you truly love your partner and want to spend the rest of your life with that person. Being brutally honest is not always the best response and if you think you can say whatever is on your mind to a woman and expect her to respect you, you better think again son. If God ever blesses you with a daughter I hope for your sake you learn a better way to talk to her because if you don't she will end up in a place that will cut your heart deep.

Keep counseling where you have experience, because unless you are or have been married or have kids you can't school me! My life's resume is long and I have experienced much around the globe! So again I say watch and listen son!

Bravo Hustleman!!!
   


There is a wonderful book you should read, ...it is next on my reading list after I finish T. Harv Eker.
I've only begun to thumb through it. I forget the name of it right now, but I know STella knows it.
I'm currently in an online global conference, and have to jump on a telephone conference call in 5 mins, or I'd go grab the book and give you the title. When I find it, I post it, but in the meantime... it's the purple book.

Fabulous information all around.  

[DIVISION]

We found another counselor. But I agree with you.

........I told you that gimmick wouldn't work.   




DIV

[Hustle Man]

........I told you that gimmick wouldn't work.   

DIV

Never said it would my brother, *read* the original post but I know what the couple was attempting to accomplish and I that's a good thing. They, in my opinion went about it the wrong way.

I also agree with what Samourai Pizzacat said:

First off, these are interpretations of perceived behaviour (it's a double pitfall) so be very careful, you might be way off the mark.

Relationships are much about accepting people the way they are, taking the good with the bad. You can try to see the positive side of a certain bad trait, it's still hard not to be annoyed by it. I'd approach these situations on a person per person basis. the above list might be good filling for a mag, but not as counseling tool.

P.S. the longer I look at the list the more alternative explanations I see....

Thanks Jaggy, fill me in on the book when you have a chance!