Liver

[mopar_freak]

i had some blood tests done before i started my summer stack.

AST 53.
ALT 61.

is this really high?   should i forget about anykind of stack??

[Luv2Hurt]

i had some blood tests done before i started my summer stack.

AST 53.
ALT 61.

is this really high?   should i forget about anykind of stack??

No those are not very high, a small bit elevated but minor.

[Rimbaud]

i had some blood tests done before i started my summer stack.

AST 53.
ALT 61.

is this really high?   should i forget about anykind of stack??

Thos aren't high. Last time I had mine done they were about 25% higher, which still isn't that bad.

[mopar_freak]

is there anything i can take to lower them when im on my stack?
thanks for all the help guys, i was getting worried

[Rimbaud]

Are you taking any other medications? Do you drink heavily?

What exactly are you planning to take?

[MaxG]

Your liver was high before you started? Keep in mind that a normal doc will tell you that high protein can increase values. They even state that Creatine can increase these values. Not sure on that though. I have limited faith for the medical field unless a doc who has more specialty knowledge for athletes.

As long as you stay clear of drinking alcohol while on your program.. you should be fine. Be sure to be good about flushing system with water. If you are really worried about your values... then you can look at taking Liv-52. Stay clear of Milk Thistle while on program as some claims have been made that this can block IGF-1. Even if it did do this at a small margin... it still is a unwanted while making gains. Save the Thistle for after PCT.

[mopar_freak]

im on wellbutrin 150mg, and i do not drink at all or do drugs.
i havent started my stack yet but i do have a very high protine diet and i take alot of supplement,e.g. Arginine, L-glutamine, Branch-chain animos, saw palmetto, maletonin,green tea pills, NO2, Oils 2,6,9 and flax seed oil,CLA and some vitamins,

for my stack that starts in 5 weeks,its mostly cutting, winny,Var, primo, test prop, and some deca and maybe Nolvadex if I need it 90% of my supplements will be cutt off when im on the stack

[Van_Bilderass]

Did you workout hard in the days before the test? That can elevate the numbers.

If you do a test during or after the cycle get the GGT value.

1: Clin J Sport Med. 1999 Jan;9(1):34-9.Links
    Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated?
    Dickerman RD, Pertusi RM, Zachariah NY, Dufour DR, McConathy WJ.

    The Department of Biomedical Science, University of North Texas Health Science Center, Fort Worth 76107-2699, USA.

    OBJECTIVE: There have been numerous reports of hepatic dysfunction secondary to anabolic steroid use based on elevated levels of serum aminotransferases. This study was conducted to distinguish between serum aminotransaminase elevations secondary to intense resistance training and anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity in elite bodybuilders. DESIGN: This was a case-control study of serum chemistry profiles from bodybuilders using and not using anabolic steroids with comparisons to a cohort of medical students and patients with hepatitis. PARTICIPANTS: The participants were bodybuilders taking self-directed regimens of anabolic steroids (n = 15) and bodybuilders not taking steroids (n = 10). Blood chemistry profiles from patients with viral hepatitis (n = 49) and exercising and nonexercising medical students (592) were used as controls. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The focus in blood chemistry profiles was aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT), and creatine kinase (CK) levels. RESULTS: In both groups of bodybuilders, CK, AST, and ALT were elevated, whereas GGT remained in the normal range. In contrast, patients with hepatitis had elevations of all three enzymes: ALT, AST, and GGT. Creatine kinase (CK) was elevated in all exercising groups. Patients with hepatitis were the only group in which a correlation was found between aminotransferases and GGT. CONCLUSION: Prior reports of anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity based on elevated aminotransferase levels may have been overstated, because no exercising subjects, including steroid users, demonstrated hepatic dysfunction based on GGT levels. Such reports may have misled the medical community to emphasize steroid-induced hepatotoxicity when interpreting elevated aminotransferase levels and disregard muscle damage. For these reasons, when evaluating hepatic function in cases of anabolic steroid therapy or abuse, CK and GGT levels should be considered in addition to ALT and AST levels as essential elements of the assessment.

[mopar_freak]

my last cycle was 6 months ago so i dont think thats it, i was on only test E and tren.
i trian balls to the wall 6 days a week, plus im cutting down so my cardio is at 1 hour 6 days a week.

[mopar_freak]

anyother info would be great, thanks guys

[Luv2Hurt]

anyother info would be great, thanks guys

Don't wanna sound rude but if you are looking to someone else to say "yes go ahead and start that cycle" I don't think you will find what you are looking for here.  The decision to possibly risk your health is yours and your only.  I don't think anyone here would say juice has no risk or possibly negative sides.

If you wanna be 100% safe then I would just stay off, eat a balanced diet with good carbs, fruits, veggies, moderate lean protein, healthy fats, drink plenty of good clean water.  Don't drink, rec drugs or smoke. Get plenty of sleep and live a stress free life. Do your cardio and curcit train with moderate to low weights, maybe throw some of that stability ball crap in there too. 

This would be more healthy for you than a juiced up, competitive BB type lifestyle.  Where your diet is so loaded with protein it taxes your system into the ground and is lacking in so many other important nutrients.  hardcore BB training will also tear your body to hell over time, arthritis, injuries, torn tendons, degenerative disks and soft tissue.

[Vet]

Your liver was high before you started? Keep in mind that a normal doc will tell you that high protein can increase values. They even state that Creatine can increase these values. Not sure on that though. I have limited faith for the medical field unless a doc who has more specialty knowledge for athletes.

Which is true.  AST--Aspartate transaminase, will go up with liver damage because it is an enzyme that is associated with liver parenchymal cells whose essential function is the conversion of aspartate and alpha-ketoglutarate to oxaloacetate and glutamate. The thing about AST is that it is raised in acute liver damage, but is also present in red blood cells as well as cardiac muscle, skeletal muscle, kidney and brain tissue.  It may be elevated with damage to any of these sources as well--especially skeletal muscle.  AST is a major marker for capture myopathy in exotic species.  It will literally go through the roof because of the muscle damage.  The real kicker with AST is that in cases of chronic liver disease in multiple species, it goes up initially, but then isn't elevated over time.  I don't know about humans, but to the best of my knowledge, in nonhuman primates, the "to high protein leads to elevated AST" hasn't been proven. 

ALT (alanine aminotransferase) is more liver specific, but it too isn't located only in the liver.  ALT levels can also increase secondary to strenuous physical exertion, but not as much as AST.  CPK and resting bile acids really need to measured along with ALT and AST in any exercising animal to rule out muscle damage vs liver issues.  The other thing about ALT is that ALT has a normal fluctuation through the day--it'll be higher at different times of the day, lower at others.  Its normal.  Some physicians (and veterinarians) forget this. 

 

As long as you stay clear of drinking alcohol while on your program.. you should be fine. Be sure to be good about flushing system with water. If you are really worried about your values... then you can look at taking Liv-52. Stay clear of Milk Thistle while on program as some claims have been made that this can block IGF-1. Even if it did do this at a small margin... it still is a unwanted while making gains. Save the Thistle for after PCT.

Theres alot of controversy about milk thistle. 

[mopar_freak]

i never asked if it had juice has no risk or possibly negative sides. what i  do want to know is has anyone else had this level of liver enzymes and went on juice. also i would like to know what you guys this i should be taking that would be less taxing on the liver
i know that gear has  risk or possibly negative sides. or i would have never used it in the past.

also i dont know if having AST 53. ALT 61. and going on gear would be extremely mad for me.

I'm sure that the people on this site would say dont use anything if it was  AST 200. ALT 300.
i just want to know what people think and what they have done in the past.
what i dont need is someone telling me that gear is bad for you because ive heared it 100 time

[mopar_freak]

 
Theres alot of controversy about milk thistle. 

should i even bether taking  milk thistle

[Vet]

i never asked if it had juice has no risk or possibly negative sides. what i  do want to know is has anyone else had this level of liver enzymes and went on juice. also i would like to know what you guys this i should be taking that would be less taxing on the liver
i know that gear has  risk or possibly negative sides. or i would have never used it in the past.

also i dont know if having AST 53. ALT 61. and going on gear would be extremely mad for me.

I'm sure that the people on this site would say dont use anything if it was  AST 200. ALT 300.
i just want to know what people think and what they have done in the past.
what i dont need is someone telling me that gear is bad for you because ive heared it 100 time

It really depends on what your other lab values were and what values your lab has established for normal ranges.  These are slightly high for generally accepted published levels, but individual lab variation may make up a big difference and without knowing the big picture of other important lab values, its impossible to say.  As a general rule the animals I work with, I don't pay any attention to AST or ALT unless its more than 3-5 times normal as long as other values are within normal limits.  The enzymes are just too nondistinct for one source and too many of the animals may have some form of mild capture myopathy from running/exertion.  Human physicians may look at things differently.