I was wrong, Obama isn't a liberal...

[G o a t b o y]

... he's an authoritarian statist.

Let me explain...  the traditional left/right way of describing candidates falls short of properly classifying them, since there are two kinds of liberty:  economic liberty (where the Republicans usually score very well) and personal liberty (where the democrats have traditionally done well).  The left/right, conservative/liveral thing only tends to look at the economic aspect, while ignoring how individual candidates feel about personal liberty.  So in reality, candidates can be rated and classified according to their voting records on BOTH economic and personal liberty issues, and classified into one of four quadrants based on this.

Take a look here for further explaination and a diagram:

http://www.republicanliberty.org/libdex/libergraph.htm


So, how does Obama rate, based on his voting record?  You'd think he'd be a "liberal/left-winger" who believes in high personal liberty, but low economic liberty, right?  Nope.  Based on his voting record, he scores low on both personal and economic liberty, classifying him as an authoritarian statist:

http://www.republicanliberty.org/libdex/cg_legis.asp?key=obb01


How 'bout John McCain?  Right-winger, right? (low personal liberty, high economic liberty).   Nope.  Based on his voting record, he actually scores high on both, and has not only a high economic liberty rating, but a personal liberty rating significantly higher than Obamas:

http://www.republicanliberty.org/libdex/cg_legis.asp?key=mcj01


So, no matter what the media sells you, all you need to do to find the truth is look at the voting records.  The choice comes down to this:  who would you rather have as president, an authoritarian/statist or a libertarian/centrist?   'Cause there ain't no liberals or conservatives running this time around.

[240 is Back]

Are you saying hilary is the closet thing to a republican in the race?

[G o a t b o y]

Are you saying hilary is the closet thing to a republican in the race?

LOL.  I didn't even look her up. 

[240 is Back]

LOL.  I didn't even look her up. 

here ya go:
http://www.rnc.org/

You shady repubs who voted for hilary in order to keep her in the race are gonna be so pissed when she's on the ticket.

[G o a t b o y]

here ya go:
http://www.rnc.org/

You shady repubs who voted for hilary in order to keep her in the race are gonna be so pissed when she's on the ticket.

All I know is, the more I find out about McCain, the more I like him.  He may not be a favorite of either the neocons or the religocrats, but I'm thinking he's the best candidate the GOP has put up in a while, position-wise.

Conversely, the more I find out about Obama, the more he scares me. 

[JOHN MATRIX]

haha i love how people try to stuff everyone into a neatly labeled bag, how bout just saying hes a down to earth, far removed from the usual washington aristocracies, reasonable half black dude with good judgement, honesty, good enough experience and credentials and correct priorities. haha liberalauthoritarian neostatistician geoglobal left wing semi hahaha reminsd me of the music nerds trying to label every single kind of metal 'no dude they are neo-classical trash' 'speed metal, death metal, black metal, doom metal, insane raw hardcore progressive alternative hahahah

[G o a t b o y]

haha i love how people try to stuff everyone into a neatly labeled bag, how bout just saying hes a down to earth, far removed from the usual washington aristocracies, reasonable half black dude with good judgement, honesty, good enough experience and credentials and correct priorities. haha liberalauthoritarian neostatistician geoglobal left wing semi hahaha reminsd me of the music nerds trying to label every single kind of metal 'no dude they are neo-classical trash' 'speed metal, death metal, black metal, doom metal, insane raw hardcore progressive alternative hahahah

Reasonable black dude with good judgement whose voting record shows he's opposed to both economic and personal liberty.  (and who keeps company with a "pastor" who makes Al Sharpton seem downright moderate.)    

[240 is Back]

obama is becoming more and more of a question mark.

[JOHN MATRIX]

hhaha i love how the haters keep hugging desperately to the pastor 'controversy' think about it for a second, how stupid it is to judge someone by anyone hes had any asociations with in the past

OMG did u hear an old high school friend of goatboy's said such and such can u believe it goatboy must be teh evil!!! omg his dad once said 'dammit fuck so and so people in an outburst of frustration omg goatboy must be teh racists omg!!!!

all the hater can do is point at people who have some connection to him in the past, compare this to hillary who HERSELF-not an 'associate', but HERSELF, boldface lies and makes up shit stories in order to seem 'tougher' haha oh brother.

[calmus]

Reasonable black dude with good judgement whose voting record shows he's opposed to both economic and personal liberty.  (and who keeps company with a "pastor" who makes Al Sharpton seem downright moderate.)    

Since you're against economic liberty too, the two of you should have a lot in common.   

[Hedgehog]

I don't dwell on the pastor issue for one minute.

Those who do must have not much real hard issues with Obama.

My problem with him is that tax cut. How is he gonna finance it?

Other than that, I actually wants to give him credit for one thing: He seems to be the one candidate out of the three who is looking to invest in IT solutions and IT infrastructure, such as broadband nationally.

That would mean a giant leap not only for USA but for the whole world as far as economics IMO.

[G o a t b o y]

I don't dwell on the pastor issue for one minute.

Those who do must have not much real hard issues with Obama.

My problem with him is that tax cut. How is he gonna finance it?

Other than that, I actually wants to give him credit for one thing: He seems to be the one candidate out of the three who is looking to invest in IT solutions and IT infrastructure, such as broadband nationally.

That would mean a giant leap not only for USA but for the whole world as far as economics IMO.

IT infrastructure is being upgraded by private industry, and needs to be left to private industry.  Anytime the government gets involved in something like this it ends up costing twice as much as working half as well. 

[shootfighter1]

I'm with you on this one goat.
Though Obama seems like a good person with exceptional public skills, its his voting record and proposed policies that really bother me.  The associations with both pastors are not the biggest issue compared to Obamas voting record & proposed policies.  To be clear, the associations are not just passing, they are spiritual advisors, political backers, (a close friendship with Wright) and both have donated time & $ to his campaign, so they deserve some attention.

[24KT]

I'm with you on this one goat.
Though Obama seems like a good person with exceptional public skills, its his voting record and proposed policies that really bother me.  The associations with both pastors are not the biggest issue compared to Obamas voting record & proposed policies.  To be clear, the associations are not just passing, they are spiritual advisors, political backers, (a close friendship with Wright) and both have donated time & $ to his campaign, so they deserve some attention.

I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that before backing Obama, he used to support the Clintons.
Funny how no one thought his comments controversial then, ...I guess this is what the press call a slow news day.
In Clinton's case, there was plenty of scandal to fill the pages andairwaves, ...but Obama is so squeaky clean... the most they can turn to is damning him with the remarks of someone else. It's grasping at straws if you ask me 

[w8tlftr]

I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that before backing Obama, he used to support the Clintons.
Funny how no one thought his comments controversial then, ...I guess this is what the press call a slow news day.
In Clinton's case, there was plenty of scandal to fill the pages andairwaves, ...but Obama is so squeaky clean... the most they can turn to is damning him with the remarks of someone else. It's grasping at straws if you ask me 

That's because he wasn't running for POTUS back then. I'm pretty sure that if anyone did any research on him and his association with the controversial Rev. Wright was uncovered it would have generated media attention.

[24KT]

That's because he wasn't running for POTUS back then. I'm pretty sure that if anyone did any research on him and his association with the controversial Rev. Wright was uncovered it would have generated media attention.

Do you really think the Rev Wright's comments could've in any way competed for airtime with the blue dress?

[w8tlftr]

Do you really think the Rev Wright's comments could've in any way competed for airtime with the blue dress?

Hell no.

The blue dress is a classic and she's a fat nasty skank for never washing the damn thing. What was she saving it for? A flavor saver? 

[shootfighter1]

No, the blue dress shocker probably outweighs Wright's preachings.  Yeah, that story was pretty crazy.
I guess Lewinski has had a lot of problems since her time in the white house and was historically hounded by the press for yrs. 

Probably so jag, but Wright didn't have a close personal relationship with the Clintons, nor did they attend his church for 20 yrs, so its a different situation.

Even though the black panthers (whats left of them) issued support to Obama, it doesn't have anything to do with Obama himself...because he is not choosing to be associated with them.  Significant difference between getting someone's endorsement and choosing to be personally closely associated with them.

[24KT]

Hell no.

The blue dress is a classic and she's [demeaning insult deleted] for never washing the damn thing. What was she saving it for? A flavor saver? 

I think the Texaco verdict might have had something to do with it.  Linda Tripp informed her it could be considered evidence, and in such a scenario cleaning it could have seen her facing obstruction of justice charges. The destruction of evidence even in a civil case is criminal. How much more serious is it when the investigation involves possible impeachment of a sitting POTUS? As it was she herself had done nothing wrong, but cleaning his DNA from her dress could have gotten her into serious trouble. And quite frankly I'm surprised more people didn't take notice of the flagrant way in which her rights were violated in the investigation. Ken Starr was worse than the gestapo, but people ignored that because they wanted to vilify a young girl whose only fault was falling in love with the POTUS. And now they're in shock when the government moves to take all their rights away as well. 

btw - Is there any reason you've chosen to insult her in such a personal & demeaning way?
Did she do anything to you? From what I've gathered so far, I would think you would be worshipping her,
...especially since she performs acts you've sadly admitted your wife is no longer willing to do for you?

[w8tlftr]

I think the Texaco verdict might have had something to do with it.  Linda Tripp informed her it could be considered evidence, and in such a scenario cleaning it could have seen her facing obstruction of justice charges. The destruction of evidence even in a civil case is criminal. How much more serious is it when the investigation involves possible impeachment of a sitting POTUS? As it was she herself had done nothing wrong, but cleaning his DNA from her dress could have gotten her into serious trouble. And quite frankly I'm surprised more people didn't take notice of the flagrant way in which her rights were violated in the investigation. Ken Starr was worse than the gestapo, but people ignored that because they wanted to vilify a young girl whose only fault was falling in love with the POTUS. And now they're in shock when the government moves to take all their rights away as well. 

btw - Is there any reason you've chosen to insult her in such a personal & demeaning way?
Did she do anything to you? From what I've gathered so far, I would think you would be worshipping her,
...especially since she performs acts you've sadly admitted your wife is no longer willing to do for you?

Oh fvcking puhleeez! Are you actually claiming that the fat nasty skank gave a blow job to a married man that was old enough to be her father and kept Clinton's man goo on her dress because she thought it might be evidence? Put the kool aid down, Judi. If she were truly in love with the man she would have bent over backwards to protect him.

And yeah, The girl is a fat nasty skank. She had an affair with a married man and didn't even have the decency to clean up after herself. That's just nasty. That said, I have less respect for Bill Clinton. He took advantage of the situation then lied about it. I don't care if it was just a blow job. He lied under oath.

And not that it's any of your damn business but I'm not lacking in the sex department from my wife.

[24KT]

If she were truly in love with the man she would have bent over backwards to protect him.

She tried to protect him at first, ...until it became obvious she was in the process of being set up as a stalker.

And if she had bent over for him, ...just imagine what a spectacle that would have been? 

That said, I have less respect for Bill Clinton. He took advantage of the situation then lied about it. I don't care if it was just a blow job. He lied under oath.

I have no argument there. That he did. Do I think he deserved to be impeached over it? No.
Now there are others who have lied and those lies have cost a whole lot of lives of men who wore the uniform.
Do I think these liars deserve to be impeached over their lies? Absolutely!

And not that it's any of your damn business but I'm not lacking in the sex department from my wife.

Oh, ...was this suppose to be a secret? Ok... forget I mentioned it then. 

[G o a t b o y]

The destruction of evidence even in a civil case is criminal. How much more serious is it when the investigation involves possible impeachment of a sitting POTUS? As it was she herself had done nothing wrong, but cleaning his DNA from her dress could have gotten her into serious trouble.

Oh, please...  while what you say may have been true once an investigation was started, prior to that it's not "evidence" it's just washing a worn article of clothing.  If she had gotten home that day and thrown the dress in the washer (which she would have done in any event), no jury in the world would convict her of "evidence tampering" for not saving the splooge. 

[w8tlftr]

She tried to protect him at first, ...until it became obvious she was in the process of being set up as a stalker.

And if she had bent over for him, ...just imagine what a spectacle that would have been? 

LOL... no more a spectacle than, "That's a goood cigar."

I have no argument there. That he did. Do I think he deserved to be impeached over it? No.
Now there are others who have lied and those lies have cost a whole lot of lives of men who wore the uniform.
Do I think these liars deserve to be impeached over their lies? Absolutely!

I disagree. Perjury is a serious offense. If the POTUS can't be held accountable for lying under oath then who can?

Oh, ...was this suppose to be a secret? Ok... forget I mentioned it then. 

No pizza for you - one week! 

[24KT]

Oh, please...  while what you say may have been true once an investigation was started, prior to that it's not "evidence" it's just washing a worn article of clothing.  If she had gotten home that day and thrown the dress in the washer (which she would have done in any event), no jury in the world would convict her of "evidence tampering" for not saving the splooge. 

I can't disagree with you there, ...hoever, ...she might not have known it was there at the time.

In any event, ...thank goodness for her she had it.