HRT--Started today----Doctor thinks past AAS use is the culprit

[strength]

You also need to remember its not necessarily teh size of the testicle in terms of testosterone production, but the endocrine function of the tissue that is there. 


I really think the whole "testicular size" arguements come from food animals and bull testicles and they are clouded quite a bit. 

I have Zero noticeable atrophy.

[Emmortal]

You also need to remember its not necessarily teh size of the testicle in terms of testosterone production, but the endocrine function of the tissue that is there. 


I really think the whole "testicular size" arguments come from food animals and bull testicles and they are clouded quite a bit. 

True, but if the cells have died due to the testes being shutdown from exogenous testosterone, whether or not if they've shrunk or not is irrelevant.  The point is to keep them functioning by using HCG so you avoid reduced endocrine function of the tissue that's there.

[4thAD]

Emmortal is completely correct here! Atrophy is not an indication of shut down, or the leydig dying off. It is in some, but not all. You cant say you have zero atrophy, unless your Doc has actually measured the size of your balls. I have said it before and I will say it again, HCG is important for testicular health.

[4thAD]

I hate to correct you, but you are indeed wrong.  HCG does in fact get the testes working while ON cycle to produce natural test, here's a study that shows exactyl that.  Patients taking 200mg a week of Testosterone took 500ius e3d of HCG and got the testes to produce testosterone.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/90/5/2595?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=hcg+male+steroids+hypogonadism&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=40&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

And I'm not sure where you got the comment from about your testes not producing sperm while on cycle.  That's completely false and has been proven wrong some time ago.  There were some studies done on the effectiveness of exogenous testosterone in males for birth control and they found it to be not reliable due to the percentage of males who were still producing sperm, I believe it was around 50% IIRC.

Thanx for posting those studies Emmortal!

[abc123]

Some really great info here guys.  Thanks!

I can reconcile the differences in what each of you is to two simple issues: 1) producing sperm vs. testicular volume and 2) shutdown using 200 mg of Test is very dependent on the level of hormones when starting.  A HRT candidate may not get shutdown on 200 mg, but a normal male likely would. 

This is consistant with what I have experienced and seen myself.

[strength]

Update.... 

I am feeling a lot better.  I was talking to Rimbaud on the phone the other day(hes a personal friend).  He gave me some great advice.  He knows just how much stress can play on one's overall health especially something like test levels.   In the past 4 years i have gone through bankruptcy, lost my house, changed jobs, had two kids and managed to buy another house(only by the grace of GOD).  When i put things on paper, sometimes im like WOW.  I dont know if ill have to stay on HRT forever but at this point i really dont care.  I did my first shot wednesday night and i am already feeling soo much better.  I know most of it is psychological at this point.  I 've got a good doc.   He just called in a script for armidex for me today to go along with my hrt.  I will give it a few months, get back into the swing of things.  Maybe its a blessing in disguise.  I know you guys are concerned about using HCG, and i will look into that eventually, but at this point i am exhausted and am happy with where i am at right now.  My insurance doesn't cover it, and money doesnt exactly grow on trees these days.  I really appreciate everyones input. 

[4thAD]

Glad to hear your feeling up bro! Sorry about all the rough times you had to crawl through, but you did just that. You got through it. Those kids are a blesing, and you seem like the kind of person who will keep moving forward. One step at a time brother. As far as the HCG is concerned I think its important, but its not going to be the end of the world if you don't have it. Do the blood work and adjust the test dose accordingly. I'm glad you came back to the board bro, I've been enjoying your posts and conversing with you.

The good feeling might be psychological right now, but watch out, your sex drive is going to climb through the roof. Feelings of well being are here to stay bro!

[strength]

Glad to hear your feeling up bro! Sorry about all the rough times you had to crawl through, but you did just that. You got through it. Those kids are a blesing, and you seem like the kind of person who will keep moving forward. One step at a time brother. As far as the HCG is concerned I think its important, but its not going to be the end of the world if you don't have it. Do the blood work and adjust the test dose accordingly. I'm glad you came back to the board bro, I've been enjoying your posts and conversing with you.

The good feeling might be psychological right now, but watch out, your sex drive is going to climb through the roof. Feelings of well being are here to stay bro!

Im glad to be back!!

by the way i just picked up my script for arimidex.  I guess they dont make a generic of that.  30 1 mg tabs cost 25 bucks.  But that will last me a long time.  I plan to only run it .25 mg E3d.

[4thAD]

Talk to Rim about this. I think he runs it only Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. This will probably be efficient. How gyno prone are you?

[Rimbaud]

Talk to Rim about this. I think he runs it only Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. This will probably be efficient. How gyno prone are you?

Oddly enough we just talked about an hour ago about running adex Mon, Wed, & Fri.

[strength]

i've been having issues with my left gland, that is how this whole journey to hrt started anyway.  I took 1 mg today and will take it down to .25 EOD untill the pain and swelling goes away.

I had low test and high estrogen... aint that a biatch