Supplemental mythology- the skinny on alll things supplemental.

[Necrosis]

The reason i am starting this thread is 1)replace the jackels thread as i would like the mods and members to put in more effort actually examining supplements from a factual standpoint 2) get the actual truth insted of members anecdotal feedback. This thread will be a repository for abstracts and studies as well as thought out responses concerning supplements and their method of action. I hope to expose misconceptions and falsities as well as expose some underutilized supplements for health,disease states and peak performance.

You guys can also ask questions that are serious in this thread, however, i hope to keep this thread as fact based as possible, So a little censorship will come into play if the topic gets out of hand. I want this thread to be accesible and easy to navigate as it grows, discussion that is not fit for high school will be eliminated from this thread as possibly irrelevant and inane information may be assimilated into it, exactly what i dont want.

We have alot of smart members here, hopefully you guys can help me out and build a decent thread so that people can see what supplements are effective and what is hype.

[Necrosis]

I'll go first.

GLUTAMINE- possibly and probably useless for oral supplementation. It is true that glutamine is the main source of feul for intestinal cells hence it may be good for digestion, however, glutamine is easily made from other amino acids or de novo. when one consumes glutamine the stomach acid rapidly degrades 90% of it and the rest becomes a substrate for gluconeogenesis which is the creation of glucose, so its an expensive glucose. Now for the studies.

1: Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2006 Oct;31(5):518-29.Links
Addition of glutamine to essential amino acids and carbohydrate does not enhance anabolism in young human males following exercise.Wilkinson SB, Kim PL, Armstrong D, Phillips SM.
Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, 1280 Main St. West, Hamilton, ON L8S 4K1, Canada.

We examined the effect of a post-exercise oral carbohydrate (CHO, 1 g.kg(-1).h(-1)) and essential amino acid (EAA, 9.25 g) solution containing glutamine (0.3 g/kg BW; GLN trial) versus an isoenergetic CHO-EAA solution without glutamine (control, CON trial) on muscle glycogen resynthesis and whole-body protein turnover following 90 min of cycling at 65% VO2 peak. Over the course of 3 h of recovery, muscle biopsies were taken to measure glycogen resynthesis and mixed muscle protein synthesis (MPS), by incorporation of [ring-2H5] phenylalanine. Infusion of [1-13C] leucine was used to measure whole-body protein turnover. Exercise resulted in a significant decrease in muscle glycogen (p < 0.05) with similar declines in each trial. Glycogen resynthesis following 3 h of recovery indicated no difference in total accumulation or rate of repletion. Leucine oxidation increased 2.5 fold (p < 0.05) during exercise, returned to resting levels immediately post-exercise,and was again elevated at 3 h post-exercise (p < 0.05). Leucine flux, an index of whole-body protein breakdown rate, was reduced during exercise, but increased to resting levels immediately post-exercise, and was further increased at 3 h post-exercise (p < 0.05), but only during the CON trial. Exercise resulted in a marked suppression of whole-body protein synthesis (50% of rest; p < 0.05), which was restored post-exercise; however, the addition of glutamine did not affect whole-body protein synthesis post-exercise. The rate of MPS was not different between trials. The addition of glutamine to a CHO + EAA beverage had no effect on post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis or muscle protein synthesis, but may suppress a rise in whole-body proteolysis during the later stages of recovery.

NO EFFECT ON IMMUNE FUNCTION WHEN SUPPLEMENTED ORALLY

1: Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2000 Mar;10(1):39-50.Links
Effect of oral glutamine supplementation on human neutrophil lipopolysaccharide-stimulated degranulation following prolonged exercise.Walsh NP, Blannin AK, Bishop NC, Robson PJ, Gleeson M.
Sport, Health and Leisure Department, Trinity and All Saints University College, Leeds, England.

Recent studies have shown that neutrophils can utilize glutamine and that glutamine supplementation can improve neutrophil function in postoperative and burn patients. The present study investigated the influence of oral glutamine supplementation on stimulated neutrophil degranulation and oxidative burst activity following prolonged exercise. Subjects, 7 well-trained men, reported to the laboratory following an overnight fast and cycled for 2 hrs at 60% VO2max on two occasions a week apart. They were randomly assigned to either a glutamine or placebo treatment. For both trials, subjects consumed a sugar-free lemon drink at 15-min intervals until 90 minutes, then a lemon flavored glutamine drink (GLN) or sugar-free lemon drink (PLA) was consumed at 15-min intervals for the remaining exercise and the 2-hr recovery period. Venous blood samples were taken pre-, during, and postexercise. Glutamine supplementation had no effect on the magnitude of postexercise leukocytosis, the plasma elastase concentration following exercise (which increased in both trials), or the plasma elastase release in response to bacterial stimulation (which fell in both trials). Neutrophil function assessed by oxidative burst activity of isolated cells did not change following exercise in either trial. These findings therefore suggest that the fall in plasma glutamine concentration does not account for the decrease in neutrophil function (degranulation response) following prolonged exercise.


there are alot more studies but most studies showing benefit are from IV studies not oral.

[powerpack]

I also found Glutamine did nothing.

I found the following supplements worked, as I did judo competively right untill a few years ago, diet( I fought in a weight group) and legal performance enhancers was always of massive interest to me.

Late 1990s Creatine, the first sup I could feel work for real!
Early 2000s NO boosters I could feel and see working
Now pre work out boosters make a big difference.

As far as eating goes, modern protein shakes that dont give you cramps and gass for 24 hours after downing them (like the old WEIDER shakes) have made a big difference in post work out recovery.

[Necrosis]

I also found Glutamine did nothing.

I found the following supplements worked, as I did judo competively right untill a few years ago, diet( I fought in a weight group) and legal performance enhancers was always of massive interest to me.

Late 1990s Creatine, the first sup I could feel work for real!
Early 2000s NO boosters I could feel and see working
Now pre work out boosters make a big difference.

As far as eating goes, modern protein shakes that dont give you cramps and gass for 24 hours after downing them (like the old WEIDER shakes) have made a big difference in post work out recovery.

kinda glad you mentioned pre workout supps, as caffeine was another supp i wanted to add some insight on. i Hope to write a little on multiple supps and a bit on some of the pathways they effect like the ubiquitin-proteosome pathway and explain some of the more scientific aspects of supplementation.

caffeine

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2008 Aug;18(4):412-29.Links
The effect of caffeine as an ergogenic aid in anaerobic exercise.Woolf K, Bidwell WK, Carlson AG.
Department of Nutrition, Arizona State University, Mesa, AZ 85212, USA.

The study examined caffeine (5 mg/kg body weight) vs. placebo during anaerobic exercise. Eighteen male athletes (24.1+/-5.8 yr; BMI 26.4+/-2.2 kg/m2) completed a leg press, chest press, and Wingate test. During the caffeine trial, more total weight was lifted with the chest press, and a greater peak power was obtained during the Wingate test. No differences were observed between treatments for the leg press and average power, minimum power, and power drop (Wingate test). There was a significant treatment main effect found for postexercise glucose and insulin concentrations; higher concentrations were found in the caffeine trial. A significant interaction effect (treatment and time) was found for cortisol and glucose concentrations; both increased with caffeine and decreased with placebo. Postexercise systolic blood pressure was significantly higher during the caffeine trial. No differences were found between treatments for serum free-fatty-acid concentrations, plasma lactate concentrations, serum cortisol concentrations, heart rate, and rating of perceived exertion. Thus, a moderate dose of caffeine resulted in more total weight lifted for the chest press and a greater peak power attained during the Wingate test in competitive athletes.

another recent study found no effect on anerobic measures but was poorly designed imo.

Slight support for aerobic activity

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2008 Jun;18(3):328-42.Links
Ergogenic effects of low doses of caffeine on cycling performance.Jenkins NT, Trilk JL, Singhal A, O'Connor PJ, Cureton KJ.
Department of Kinesiology, University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602, USA.

The purpose of this experiment was to learn whether low doses of caffeine have ergogenic, perceptual, and metabolic effects during cycling. To determine the effects of 1, 2, and 3 mg/kg caffeine on cycling performance, differentiated ratings of perceived exertion (D-RPE), quadriceps pain intensity, and metabolic responses to cycling exercise, 13 cyclists exercised on a stationary ergometer for 15 min at 80% VO, then, after 4 min of active recovery, completed a 15-min VO2peak performance ride 60 min after ingesting caffeine or placebo. Work done (kJ/kg) during the performance ride was used as a measure of performance. D-RPE, pain ratings, and expired-gas data were obtained every 3 min, and blood lactate concentrations were obtained at 15 and 30 min. Compared with placebo, caffeine doses of 2 and 3 mg/kg increased performance by 4% (95% CI: 1.0-6.8%, p = .02) and 3% (95% CI: -0.4% to 6.8%, p = .077), respectively. These effects were ergogenic, on average, but varied considerably in magnitude among individual cyclists. There were no effects of caffeine on D-RPE or pain throughout the cycling task. Selected metabolic variables were affected by caffeine, consistent with its known actions. The authors conclude that caffeine preparations of 2 and 3 mg/kg enhanced performance, but future work should aim to explain the considerable interindividual variability of the drug's ergogenic properties.


J Appl Physiol. 2008 Jul;105(1):7-13. Epub 2008 May 8. Links
High rates of muscle glycogen resynthesis after exhaustive exercise when carbohydrate is coingested with caffeine.Pedersen DJ, Lessard SJ, Coffey VG, Churchley EG, Wootton AM, Ng T, Watt MJ, Hawley JA.
School of Medical Sciences, RMIT University, Bundoora 3083, Victoria, Australia.

We determined the effect of coingestion of caffeine (Caff) with carbohydrate (CHO) on rates of muscle glycogen resynthesis during recovery from exhaustive exercise in seven trained subjects who completed two experimental trials in a randomized, double-blind crossover design. The evening before an experiment subjects performed intermittent exhaustive cycling and then consumed a low-CHO meal. The next morning subjects rode until volitional fatigue. On completion of this ride subjects consumed either CHO [4 g/kg body mass (BM)] or the same amount of CHO + Caff (8 mg/kg BM) during 4 h of passive recovery. Muscle biopsies and blood samples were taken at regular intervals throughout recovery. Muscle glycogen levels were similar at exhaustion [ approximately 75 mmol/kg dry wt (dw)] and increased by a similar amount ( approximately 80%) after 1 h of recovery (133 +/- 37.8 vs. 149 +/- 48 mmol/kg dw for CHO and Caff, respectively). After 4 h of recovery Caff resulted in higher glycogen accumulation (313 +/- 69 vs. 234 +/- 50 mmol/kg dw, P < 0.001). Accordingly, the overall rate of resynthesis for the 4-h recovery period was 66% higher in Caff compared with CHO (57.7 +/- 18.5 vs. 38.0 +/- 7.7 mmol x kg dw(-1) x h(-1), P < 0.05). After 1 h of recovery plasma Caff levels had increased to 31 +/- 11 microM (P < 0.001) and at the end of the recovery reached 77 +/- 11 microM (P < 0.001) with Caff. Phosphorylation of CaMK(Thr286) was similar after exercise and after 1 h of recovery, but after 4 h CaMK(Thr286) phosphorylation was higher in Caff than CHO (P < 0.05). Phosphorylation of AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK)(Thr172) and Akt(Ser473) was similar for both treatments at all time points. We provide the first evidence that in trained subjects coingestion of large amounts of Caff (8 mg/kg BM) with CHO has an additive effect on rates of postexercise muscle glycogen accumulation compared with consumption of CHO alone.

Glycogen replenishment is enhanced with caff.

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2008 Apr;18(2):131-41.Links
Dose effect of caffeine on testosterone and cortisol responses to resistance exercise.Beaven CM, Hopkins WG, Hansen KT, Wood MR, Cronin JB, Lowe TE.
Horticulture and Food Research Institute of New Zealand, Hamilton, New Zealand.

INTRODUCTION: Interest in the use of caffeine as an ergogenic aid has increased since the International Olympic Committee lifted the partial ban on its use. Caffeine has beneficial effects on various aspects of athletic performance, but its effects on training have been neglected. PURPOSE: To investigate the acute effect of caffeine on the exercise-associated increases in testosterone and cortisol in a double-blind crossover study. METHODS: Twenty-four professional rugby-league players ingested caffeine doses of 0, 200, 400, and 800 mg in random order 1 hr before a resistance-exercise session. Saliva was sampled at the time of caffeine ingestion, at 15-min intervals throughout each session, and 15 and 30 min after the session. Data were log-transformed to estimate percent effects with mixed modeling, and effects were standardized to assess magnitudes. RESULTS: Testosterone concentration showed a small increase of 15% (90% confidence limits, +/- 19%) during exercise. Caffeine raised this concentration in a dose-dependent manner by a further small 21% (+/- 24%) at the highest dose. The 800-mg dose also produced a moderate 52% (+/- 44%) increase in cortisol. The effect of caffeine on the testosterone:cortisol ratio was a small decline (14%; +/- 21%). CONCLUSION: Caffeine has some potential to benefit training outcomes via the anabolic effects of the increase in testosterone concentration, but this benefit might be counteracted by the opposing catabolic effects of the increase in cortisol and resultant decline in the testosterone:cortisol ratio.

caffeine seems to raise testosterone but also cortisol, i suspect adding a cortisol blockign supplement like 11-oxo, phosphotidyserine or 7-keto dhea might be very beneficial.

caffeine is a great preworkout supp, and postworkout it seems.

i would also like to add to the fact that coffee is much more beneficial then caffeine alone due to the antioxidants, MAOIS etc... coffee also is protective against dopiminergic diseases like parkisons and alzheimers (i realize it is related to plauges, tau tangles etc..) so it has prophylatic effects. drink up.

[Montague]

Thank you for posting this study.

I did not know about caffeine’s effects on cortisol levels.
And while I was aware of its antioxidant content, I did not realize coffee’s ability to protect against parkisons and alzheimers.

I’ve always preferred to chug a strong cup or two (as opposed to a commercial energy drink) pre-workout. I’m even more inclined to do so now.

[MCWAY]

I also found Glutamine did nothing.

I found the following supplements worked, as I did judo competively right untill a few years ago, diet( I fought in a weight group) and legal performance enhancers was always of massive interest to me.

Late 1990s Creatine, the first sup I could feel work for real!
Early 2000s NO boosters I could feel and see working
Now pre work out boosters make a big difference.

As far as eating goes, modern protein shakes that dont give you cramps and gass for 24 hours after downing them (like the old WEIDER shakes) have made a big difference in post work out recovery.

Don't I know it? I put on a lot of size in college, using Mega Mass 2000. But, brother, my tummy paid the price for it.

[Zach Trowbridge]

Do you happen to know of any studies that can justify or dispute the standard prescription of 1g/lb of protein per day for a strength athlete?  I've found a few studies that dispute it but none of them seem to utilize trained athletes, they've all used just moderately active or sedentary individuals.

[Princess L]

Do you happen to know of any studies that can justify or dispute the standard prescription of 1g/lb of protein per day for a strength athlete?  I've found a few studies that dispute it but none of them seem to utilize trained athletes, they've all used just moderately active or sedentary individuals.

Are you looking for something like this to start with?

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2129150

[Zach Trowbridge]

Are you looking for something like this to start with?

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2129150

Thanks, you're awesome!  I suck at navigating pubmed.