Author Topic: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout  (Read 1379 times)

Dos Equis

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Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« on: November 16, 2008, 10:06:40 AM »
They should have opposed the bailout. 

Nov 16, 12:01 PM EST
Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout

By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
Associated Press Writer
 
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Top Republican senators said Sunday they will oppose a Democratic plan to bail out Detroit automakers, calling the U.S. industry a "dinosaur" whose "day of reckoning" is coming. Their opposition raises serious doubts about whether the plan will pass in this week's postelection session.

Democratic leaders want to use $25 billion of the $700 billion financial industry bailout to help General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC.

Sens. Richard Shelby of Alabama and Jon Kyl of Arizona said it would be a mistake to use any of the Wall Street rescue money to prop up the automakers. They said an auto bailout would only postpone the industry's demise.

"Companies fail every day and others take their place. I think this is a road we should not go down," said Shelby, the senior Republican on the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee.

"They're not building the right products," he said. "They've got good workers but I don't believe they've got good management. They don't innovate. They're a dinosaur in a sense."

Added Kyl, the Senate's second-ranking Republican: "Just giving them $25 billion doesn't change anything. It just puts off for six months or so the day of reckoning."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said over the weekend that the House would provide aid to the ailing industry, though she did not put a price on her plan.

"The House is ready to do it," said Democratic Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee. "There's no downside to trying."

But Democrats have only a narrow majority in the Senate and President George W. Bush opposes the idea. That raises the possibility that any help for automakers will have to wait until 2009, when Barack Obama takes office and the Democrats increase their majority in the Senate.

At least two Republican senators support an automaker bailout - George Voinovich of Ohio and Kit Bond of Missouri. But if the Republicans are seen as neglecting an industry that inevitably collapses, they risk lasting political problems in Midwestern industrial states that can swing for either political party.

Obama won most of the manufacturing states in the presidential race, including Ohio, a perennial battleground, and Indiana, which had not voted for a Democrat for president since 1964. Obama easily won Michigan after Republican John McCain publicly pulled out weeks before Election Day.

Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., said automakers are working to adapt to a changing consumer market, but they need immediate help to survive the nation's current economic crisis.

"This is not a Big Three problem alone," Levin said. "This current crisis is a crisis in the economy where there is no credit available to purchase, and where people are not buying cars because they are afraid."

The companies are lobbying lawmakers furiously for an emergency infusion of cash. GM has warned it might not survive through year's end without a government lifeline.

"It's not the General Motors we grew up with. It's a General Motors that is headed down this road to oblivion," said Shelby. "Should we intervene to slow it down, knowing it's going to happen? I say no, not for the American taxpayer."

Obama said he believes that aid is needed but that it should be provided as part of a long-term plan for a "sustainable U.S. auto industry" - not simply as a blank check.

"For the auto industry to completely collapse would be a disaster in this kind of environment," Obama said in an interview on CBS's "60 Minutes" that was set to air Sunday night. "So my hope is that over the course of the next week, between the White House and Congress, the discussions are shaped around providing assistance but making sure that that assistance is conditioned on labor, management, suppliers, lenders, all of the stakeholders coming together with a plan - what does a sustainable U.S. auto industry look like?"

Automakers say bankruptcy protection is not an option because people would be reluctant to make long-term car and truck purchases from companies that might not last the life of their vehicles. But lawmakers opposed to the bailout say Chapter 11 might be a better option than government loans and they cite the experience of airlines that have gone through the process of reorganization.

Shelby and Levin were interviewed on NBC's "Meet the Press" and Shelby also appeared with Frank on CBS' "Face the Nation." Kyl spoke on "Fox News Sunday."
 
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AUTO_BAILOUT?refresh=1

Dan-O

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2008, 10:50:32 AM »
They should have opposed the bailout. 

Obama said he believes that aid is needed but that it should be provided as part of a long-term plan for a "sustainable U.S. auto industry" - not simply as a blank check.

"For the auto industry to completely collapse would be a disaster in this kind of environment," Obama said in an interview on CBS's "60 Minutes" that was set to air Sunday night. "So my hope is that over the course of the next week, between the White House and Congress, the discussions are shaped around providing assistance but making sure that that assistance is conditioned on labor, management, suppliers, lenders, all of the stakeholders coming together with a plan - what does a sustainable U.S. auto industry look like?"


So BO thinks the gov't can do a better job of running the auto industry than the auto industry can?  Why doesn't the gov't just run everything since they have all the answers?  Sheesh, gimme a break.  So the geniuses in Washington are going to reinvent the auto industry.  Good luck with that. ::)

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said over the weekend that the House would provide aid to the ailing industry, though she did not put a price on her plan.

"The House is ready to do it," said Democratic Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee. "There's no downside to trying."

But Democrats have only a narrow majority in the Senate and President George W. Bush opposes the idea. That raises the possibility that any help for automakers will have to wait until 2009, when Barack Obama takes office and the Democrats increase their majority in the Senate.

Oh brother, "there's no downside to trying..."  WTF???  Oh well, why should he care...  it's not his money, it's the American taxpayer's.

You're right BB...  Why weren't these senators using this kind of language before they bailed out the financial industry?  They need to either be consistent and do for the auto industry what they did for Wall Street, or admit bailing out Wall Street was an equally stupid idea.

Hereford

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2008, 11:09:38 AM »
I love the PR the unions are doing for this thing. If they can get the governemnt bailouts, then their interests are secured because the first mouths the auto companies will feed will be theirs.

Save the industry by busting the goddamn unions.

tonymctones

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2008, 11:36:03 AM »
I love the PR the unions are doing for this thing. If they can get the governemnt bailouts, then their interests are secured because the first mouths the auto companies will feed will be theirs.

Save the industry by busting the goddamn unions.
exactly shit man we shouldnt be bailing out anybody but if we do lets make sure they arent fuking us in the ass while we pay them for the shit.

Dos Equis

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2008, 11:47:46 AM »
So BO thinks the gov't can do a better job of running the auto industry than the auto industry can?  Why doesn't the gov't just run everything since they have all the answers?  Sheesh, gimme a break.  So the geniuses in Washington are going to reinvent the auto industry.  Good luck with that. ::)

Oh brother, "there's no downside to trying..."  WTF???  Oh well, why should he care...  it's not his money, it's the American taxpayer's.

You're right BB...  Why weren't these senators using this kind of language before they bailed out the financial industry?  They need to either be consistent and do for the auto industry what they did for Wall Street, or admit bailing out Wall Street was an equally stupid idea.

I hear you, but it's wishful thinking.  Those folks rarely admit mistakes.

Barney Frank needs to go home.   

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2008, 11:57:59 AM »
So BO thinks the gov't can do a better job of running the auto industry than the auto industry can?  Why doesn't the gov't just run everything since they have all the answers?  Sheesh, gimme a break.  So the geniuses in Washington are going to reinvent the auto industry.  Good luck with that. ::)

Oh brother, "there's no downside to trying..."  WTF???  Oh well, why should he care...  it's not his money, it's the American taxpayer's.

You're right BB...  Why weren't these senators using this kind of language before they bailed out the financial industry?  They need to either be consistent and do for the auto industry what they did for Wall Street, or admit bailing out Wall Street was an equally stupid idea.


No Barney, there's no bailout money in there.


Straw Man

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2008, 01:12:07 PM »
The current bailout is starting to look like the biggest rip off scheme of the Bush administration.   

w8tlftr

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2008, 06:58:59 PM »
Good. Enough of this shit.


Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2008, 09:23:59 PM »
"The American people will rise up and stop us."  ;D


Cap

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2008, 05:54:39 AM »
Hopefully they do fail and the government restructures the companies, ousts the unions, and doesn't let unskilled high school grads make 50-100 dollars an hour for screwing a part in here or there.  It's pathetic. 

Bailing out lenders was smart from the stand point that if there is no credit, people will not buy.  There is credit now, banks can lend now, but they have openly stated in the recent weeks that people are not coming in.  People need to pay off their debts and stop spending beyond their means.  It's ridiculous to me that people are so quick to blame everyone but the average people that caused the mess and who are now pointing the finger at the government.
Squishy face retard

Soul Crusher

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2008, 09:24:17 AM »
I love the PR the unions are doing for this thing. If they can get the governemnt bailouts, then their interests are secured because the first mouths the auto companies will feed will be theirs.

Save the industry by busting the goddamn unions.

These Unions all need to be busted out. 

It is bad enough that GM and Ford dont make cars that people want to buy, but they have to be saddled with these creeps from the UAW who would rather lose their jobs than give concessions when the economy is near collapse.

What bums.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2008, 09:25:13 AM »

No Barney, there's no bailout money in there.



Is that a real picture?????

Disgusting.

tu_holmes

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2008, 09:35:35 AM »
I agree... They shouldn't be saved.

If they do get saved it should be with the premise that something happens with the Makers themselves... maybe the consolidate into fewer.

Personally, I think that it's the will of the people... Capitalism says the market will right itself... If they are folding, then they need to fix it themselves... If they can't, then welcome to the real world.

If they had opposed the "bailout" in the first place, then maybe McCain would have won.

The bailout will pass... don't worry... None of them wants to see Ford owned by Toyota.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2008, 09:40:03 AM »
My only point is that people will buy what they are perceived to be good products at decent prices.

For example.  Apple produced the Iphone which is widely popular.  It is perceived as good and my dad has one.  The thing is great.  People will spend a little more for it because it is perceived as having good value, make, and applications.

From what i can tell from screwing around with it, it is a great product.

There are many similar examples of people putting their $$$ towards new innovative products that are well made and provide good value.

Why cant GM or Ford produce products that people want????

Because GM and Ford are nothing but big employment agencies and saddled with Unions that could care less about the product being produced.       

tu_holmes

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2008, 09:42:51 AM »
My only point is that people will buy what they are perceived to be good products at decent prices.

For example.  Apple produced the Iphone which is widely popular.  It is perceived as good and my dad has one.  The thing is great.  People will spend a little more for it because it is perceived as having good value, make, and applications.

From what i can tell from screwing around with it, it is a great product.

There are many similar examples of people putting their $$$ towards new innovative products that are well made and provide good value.

Why cant GM or Ford produce products that people want????

Because GM and Ford are nothing but big employment agencies and saddled with Unions that could care less about the product being produced.      


Agreed.

Unions have gotten too powerful and ruined not just companies, but the desire of people to take pride in their work.

shootfighter1

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2008, 09:50:45 AM »
Paulson said he suggests against further bailout $ for the auto companies.  They already have 25 billion coming from the initial 700 billion dollars.
Hope the rest of congress disagrees with Frank and bucks the additional auto bailout.
Bailing out the financial industry is different than the auto industry.  There is no line if we approve an auto industry bailout!

Dan-O

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2008, 09:53:55 AM »
Paulson said he suggests against further bailout $ for the auto companies.  They already have 25 billion coming from the initial 700 billion dollars.
Hope the rest of congress disagrees with Frank and bucks the additional auto bailout.
Bailing out the financial industry is different than the auto industry.  There is no line if we approve an auto industry bailout!

Paulson, Bernanke defend $700 billion bailout
November 18, 2008 11:50 AM EST

WASHINGTON - Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson told Congress Tuesday he opposes tapping a $700 billion taxpayer-funded pool to help struggling U.S. automakers as he and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke defended their management of the bailout program, just one week after the administration abandoned the original strategy behind the rescue.

Although having a U.S. auto company fail during such a fragile time for the economy would not be a "good thing," Paulson told the House Financial Services Committee that he remains opposed to diverting $25 billion of the bailout money to aid Detroit as the panel's chairman Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., and other Democrats want.

"I don't see this as the purpose" of the bailout program, which is intended to stabilize jittery financial markets and get lending flowing more freely again, which eventually should help revive the ailing economy, Paulson said.

The U.S. has "turned a corner" in averting a financial collapse, but more work needs to be done to get things back to normal, he said.

Focusing the bailout program on infusing billions into banks - and possibly other types of companies - to pump up their capital and bolster lending to customers was deemed a faster and more effective approach to stabilizing the financial system than buying rotten assets from financial institutions, the centerpiece of the original plan, Paulson explained.

Buying those toxic debts would have required a "massive commitment" of the bailout money, Paulson told the panel. As economic and financial conditions quickly worsened, it became clear that the first installment of the money - $350 billion - for that purpose "simply isn't enough firepower," he said.

It's crucial that the administration be nimble in assessing changing conditions and adapt the bailout strategy accordingly, the Treasury chief said. "If we have learned anything throughout this year, we have learned that this financial crisis is unpredictable and difficult to counteract," Paulson said.

Last week, Paulson changed course and said the government would not use any of the $700 billion to buy bad assets from banks. That had been the focus of the plan Paulson and Bernanke originally pitched to lawmakers.

"There is no playbook for responding to turmoil we have never faced," Paulson said. "We adjusted our strategy to reflect the facts of a severe market crisis."

But lawmakers worried the administration was sending confusing signals to taxpayers and Wall Street investors.

"We all understand that when conditions on the ground change, policymakers must be agile enough to adjust to those changed circumstances," said Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Ala. "But changing too quickly, without adequately explaining why you've changed or what you're going to do next, risks sending mixed signals to a marketplace that is in dire need of certainty and a sense of direction."

Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa., complained about the administration's "180 degree change in policy," which he didn't necessarily fault, but suggested could hurt public confidence. "Do we have a plan? Where are we going?" Kanjorski asked.

Going forward, the ability of Treasury to use the bailout program for capital injections and to take other steps to stabilize the financial system - including any actions needed to prevent the disorderly failure of a major financial institution - "will be critical for restoring confidence and promoting the return of credit markets to more normal functioning," Bernanke told the panel.

Paulson said the department will focus on rolling out a capital injection program to pour $250 billion into banks in return for partial ownership stakes in them.

Treasury also will search for new ways to boost the availability of auto loans, student loans and credit cards, which have been become harder to get due to the credit crisis.

Specifically, the department along with the Federal Reserve, is exploring using some of the bailout money to bankroll a new loan facility designed to help companies that issue credit cards, make student loans and finance car purchases. Paulson said he expected putting up only a "relatively modest share" of the bailout money for this facility.

Paulson expressed reservations about using some of the bailout money to provide guarantees for mortgages at risk of falling into foreclosure. However, the administration will look for ways to provide foreclosure relief, he said.

In a break with the administration, Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. Chairman Sheila Bair, also testifying before the panel, pressed anew for using $24 billion of the bailout money to help some American households avoid foreclosure. As foreclosures mount, the government is "clearly falling behind the curve," she warned.

Bernanke, meanwhile, called Bair's plan a "very promising approach"

So far, the Treasury Department has pledged $250 billion for banks and has agreed to devote $40 billion to troubled insurer American International Group- its first slice of funds going to a company other than a bank. That leaves just $60 billion available from Congress' first bailout installment of $350 billion.

Paulson said he is not planning to initiate another capital injection program beyond those already announced. Thus he's unlikely to tap the remaining $350 billion before the Bush administration leaves office on Jan. 20. That would mean the incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama would decide whether and how the money should be spent.

The idea behind the capital injection program is for banks to use the money to rebuild reserves and lend more freely to customers. However, banks do have the leeway to use the money for other things, such as buying other banks, paying dividends to investors or bonuses to executives. That has touched a nerve with some lawmakers.

Locked-up lending is a prime reason why the U.S. is suffering through the worst financial crisis since the 1930s. All the fallout from the housing, credit and financial crises have badly hurt the economy, which is almost certainly in recession, analysts say.

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20081118/49224bd0_3ca6_1552620081118-1933812362

Soul Crusher

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2008, 11:01:20 AM »
Agreed.

Unions have gotten too powerful and ruined not just companies, but the desire of people to take pride in their work.

Most people I know who belong to Unions have a terrible mentality when it comes to work and progress.  They could care less if the company they work for goes broke because they always think that there is another business the Union can place them into.

They have an us vs. them mentality and only care about getting more employees on the payroll and doing less within a 8 hour time frame yet be highly paid for it.  Their work product is secondary to everything else.

Those days are long over and companies cant afford this backward way of thinking, especially in auto mfg.

If GM and/or Ford want to survive that need to take a few lessons from Apple, BMW, and other companies that produce good products.

People dont want cheap products!!!!!!!!!  Otherwise, Hyuandi and Kia would be tops! 

They want good, reliable, premium products that have great quality and value.       

Dan-O

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Re: Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2008, 02:48:39 PM »
Check out the latest development--I won't repost the whole article but here's a link and a few interesting paragraphs from it.

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20081118/49224bd0_3ca6_1552620081118-287627489

Quote
Big Three automakers beg for $25 billion lifeline

........................ ......

Sympathy for he industry was sparse.

Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., told the leaders of GM, Chrysler and Ford that the industry was "seeking treatment for wounds that were largely self-inflicted."

Still, he said, "Hundreds of thousands would lose their jobs" if the companies were allowed to collapse.

Sen. Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., complained that the larger financial crisis "is not the only reason why the domestic auto industry is in trouble."

He cited "inefficient production" and "costly labor agreements" that put the U.S. automakers at a disadvantage with foreign companies.