Victor's transformation

[Relentless]

Bottom line, his gym was failing financially.  He knew this yet continued taking new memberships.
I find this kind of behaviour abominable.  Victor is a scam merchant.  He has never changed his spots.

Did you buy a membership from his gym and get your money taken?  If not, I don't understand why you seem so deeply affected by something you heard though the grapevine.  You find this sort of behavior abominable?  Well, it goes on every day in every walk of life.  That doesn't make it excusable, but wouldn't you call all of these "bailouts" that are taking place around the world pretty abominable as well?  Our own govt is fleecing the taxpayers to bail out those who have lost money though poor decisions and practices.  Victor is a scam merchant?  Never changed his sports?  Once again, I'm doubting you have never met the guy.  You are but an angry person sitting behind a message board STEWING in your own negativity.  Victor has influenced MANY people in a positive way over the years, probably many more than you ever have or will.

To this day Victor has not paid back one cent of this money he illegal obtained. 
What a blight on the industry.
This drug dealing, embezzler, free loader should be booted from this sport.

Did not pay back one cent?  How do you know for sure and why does it bother you so much?  Victor had business partners in his gym, didn't he?  Do you know their role in the whole ordeal?  Who knows what actually happened?  Was Victor personally selling memberships the last day before the gym closed?  YOU DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, DO YOU? 

Victor is not a blight on the industry more than anyone else.  Bodybuilding is an underground sport on the fringe of society...aren't you aware of that?  You love going on tirades regarding people you do not know well in an industry you hate. 

What's your problem Hank?  There are many other sports/hobbies you could take up or follow besides bodybuilding.  If you hate it so much, why spend so much of your time talking about it and running it into the ground on getbig?  It seems to me that you are spinning your wheels!

[HarleyBreite]

Harley, I've seen the pics from that show and the gyno was not "hypothetical."  Craig did look very good at that show though; the overall probably could have gone either way without much complaint.  When the show is that close, something like a small case of gyno can make the difference.

Dear Relentless,
   I will always write "hypothetical" because I am not writing about myself and I am not intending it to be construed as an admission or statement from the person of whom I writing.  You guys understand.
Harley

[Relentless]

Dear Relentless,
   I will always write "hypothetical" because I am not writing about myself and I am not intending it to be construed as an admission or statement from the person of whom I writing.  You guys understand.
Harley

I understand; that's just the lawyer-speak!  Craig looked very good at that show; is he considering competing in the 202 class?  If he could find a way to get down to that weight, I think he could beat just about anyone.

[HarleyBreite]

I understand; that's just the lawyer-speak!  Craig looked very good at that show; is he considering competing in the 202 class?  If he could find a way to get down to that weight, I think he could beat just about anyone.

Dear Relentless.
  Thanks for understanding but it's not just the "lawyer-speak."  I am Craig's friend so as a matter of respect, there are things I would not divulge just as we would not speak of certain private matters regarding any of our friends on a host of many private issues.  I was once asked about Vinny Galanti's (a former training partner) drug program and responded that I would not comment like that unless authorized to do so.  Craig and I are very close and I didn't come on Getbig to keep secrets about Craig it's just that it has to be worded properly.
  As far as any 202 Class, I would think most guys here would agree it would be a mistake for Craig to try to lose so much weight.  He is now weighing 234 pounds at 5 foot 7 and without supplements for 8 weeks.  I don't believe he would look very good sucked down so far.  I would like others' opinions on this as well, of course.
  Additionally, Craig does feel that bodybuilding is about being as big as you can be while remaining symmetrical.  He would like to compete at 225-235 one day if possible as opposed to his 216 pounds now.  He won't sacrifice his symmetry so no one go crazy just yet.  One other thing is that Craig has placed, at least at one point, higher than all the 202 pounders and desires to compete against the truly best in the world eventhough he knows he won't ever win the Olympia.  There is a certain amount of pride competitive athletes exhibit even in defeat as long as they respect their competition.
Harley

[HarleyBreite]

hows it going bro?i remember seeing craig in 94 or 5 and it was the year that had him competing against matt duvall,i think they were in different weight classes though,but man oh man when craig came out on stage the crowd and myself included knew we were looking at a future pro and in a good one at that.i was trainin at daimond gym at the time and remember arntz and the crew saying great things about craig,and believe me its hard to get praise at of those guys cause they are all pretty damn good bodybuilders imo.at the nats in 2000 i was there to support stokley palmer in the heavyweight class if i remeber right,craig looked awesome myself and the crowd knew it was pretty much between craig and victor,both looked great.i trained at renzo gracie academy in new york city for afew years and got to a blue belt,them guys are the best in bjj imo,ive rolled with georges st pierre when he was gettin ready to fight bj penn in the ufc,ive also rolled with matt serra,giant silva,kurt pelligrino and renzo.they all toyed with me and it was a humbling experiance to say the least,actually i got giant silvas back one night but he was so big(7ft 3inch 430lbs) i couldnt wrap my arms around his neck to fully rear naked choke him,lol.i moved out of state recently and have to find a new bjj school to train in,i enjoy training mma also so im being careful on what school im gonna join,i want to make sure they are credible,cause your only as good as who you train with.having solid students to train with is a must imo,cause most of the time the teacher aint always rollin with the sudents,renzo was an exception,he loved to be on the mat with his guys.thanks for all the cool stories harley,i never get tired of hearing about the inside scoop in bodybuilding

Dear Gracie bjj,
  Thanks for the response.  I am sure you cherish your time spent at Diamond Gym with all those competitors rolling in and out.  The atmosphere made everyone train hard. 
  As far as your BJJ experience, that's awesome!!!  You are very honest and humble to acknowledge what a privilege it is to roll with such talented fighters.  Coming out on the short end with that type of talent is no loss at all.  We benefit so much more from our time rolling with those far better than ourselves than feeding our egos by rolling with guys who we know we can control.
  You are 100% on when you talk about being as good as the guys with whom you train.  I also own a karate/kickboxing school in addition to training BJJ and it's amazing to go around to tournaments and other schools and see the paucity of quality instructors, especially in talent, experience and temperment. 
  As far as my BJJ training, I like to train primarily in private lessons but I do attend group classes once a week to ensure a more complete learning experience.  I have trained privately with Royler, David Adiv and Mike Mrkulic (the last two are my instructors).  The people I have met in BJJ have been nothing but fantastic and nice.  I competed last week and there wasn't one instance of nastiness or bad sportsmanship.  It was a great time.
Harley

[Relentless]

Dear Relentless.
  Thanks for understanding but it's not just the "lawyer-speak."  I am Craig's friend so as a matter of respect, there are things I would not divulge just as we would not speak of certain private matters regarding any of our friends on a host of many private issues.  I was once asked about Vinny Galanti's (a former training partner) drug program and responded that I would not comment like that unless authorized to do so.  Craig and I are very close and I didn't come on Getbig to keep secrets about Craig it's just that it has to be worded properly.
  As far as any 202 Class, I would think most guys here would agree it would be a mistake for Craig to try to lose so much weight.  He is now weighing 234 pounds at 5 foot 7 and without supplements for 8 weeks.  I don't believe he would look very good sucked down so far.  I would like others' opinions on this as well, of course.
  Additionally, Craig does feel that bodybuilding is about being as big as you can be while remaining symmetrical.  He would like to compete at 225-235 one day if possible as opposed to his 216 pounds now.  He won't sacrifice his symmetry so no one go crazy just yet.  One other thing is that Craig has placed, at least at one point, higher than all the 202 pounders and desires to compete against the truly best in the world eventhough he knows he won't ever win the Olympia.  There is a certain amount of pride competitive athletes exhibit even in defeat as long as they respect their competition.
Harley

Good stuff, Harley.  Craig is more interested in progressing his physique in his own mind's eye than he is sucking down to 202 to do well at contests.  Let's just face it, contest placings don't always reflect the quality of one's physique.  IMO, this sport is about progression, and it would be a step backwards to suck down that far...just to place well at a few contests. 

Good luck to you and to Craig.

[Pet shop boys]

How big were Vic's arms in this first pic and how big are they now?  Dude must have added 3 inches!

According to vic himself "If you upped the dose,you become more of what you allready are"


True.


WOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

[HarleyBreite]

Good stuff, Harley.  Craig is more interested in progressing his physique in his own mind's eye than he is sucking down to 202 to do well at contests.  Let's just face it, contest placings don't always reflect the quality of one's physique.  IMO, this sport is about progression, and it would be a step backwards to suck down that far...just to place well at a few contests. 

Good luck to you and to Craig.

Dear Relentless,
  Thanks for your opinion.  It's great to get feedback from other bbs.
Harley

[Relentless]

Did you buy a membership from his gym and get your money taken?  If not, I don't understand why you seem so deeply affected by something you heard though the grapevine.  You find this sort of behavior abominable?  Well, it goes on every day in every walk of life.  That doesn't make it excusable, but wouldn't you call all of these "bailouts" that are taking place around the world pretty abominable as well?  Our own govt is fleecing the taxpayers to bail out those who have lost money though poor decisions and practices.  Victor is a scam merchant?  Never changed his sports?  Once again, I'm doubting you have never met the guy.  You are but an angry person sitting behind a message board STEWING in your own negativity.  Victor has influenced MANY people in a positive way over the years, probably many more than you ever have or will.

Did not pay back one cent?  How do you know for sure and why does it bother you so much?  Victor had business partners in his gym, didn't he?  Do you know their role in the whole ordeal?  Who knows what actually happened?  Was Victor personally selling memberships the last day before the gym closed?  YOU DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, DO YOU? 

Victor is not a blight on the industry more than anyone else.  Bodybuilding is an underground sport on the fringe of society...aren't you aware of that?  You love going on tirades regarding people you do not know well in an industry you hate. 

What's your problem Hank?  There are many other sports/hobbies you could take up or follow besides bodybuilding.  If you hate it so much, why spend so much of your time talking about it and running it into the ground on getbig?  It seems to me that you are spinning your wheels!

Where are you Hanky poo?

[Rampage]

Bottom line, his gym was failing financially.  He knew this yet continued taking new memberships.

I find this kind of behaviour abominable.  Victor is a scam merchant.  He has never changed his spots.

To this day Victor has not paid back one cent of this money he illegal obtained.  

What a blight on the industry.

This drug dealing, embezzler, free loader should be booted from this sport.

If you are failing financially a way to overcome it is by binging in more money  ..........kindergarten

[Relentless]

If you are failing financially a way to overcome it is by binging in more money  ..........kindergarten

Hank is an anonymous poster who incessantly bashes people in the limelight or who are successful...hmmm.  I think I'd rather be in Victor's shoes. 

Hank = disillusioned crackpot who spends A LOT time talking about something he supposedly hates.

[gracie bjj]

Dear Gracie bjj,
  Thanks for the response.  I am sure you cherish your time spent at Diamond Gym with all those competitors rolling in and out.  The atmosphere made everyone train hard. 
  As far as your BJJ experience, that's awesome!!!  You are very honest and humble to acknowledge what a privilege it is to roll with such talented fighters.  Coming out on the short end with that type of talent is no loss at all.  We benefit so much more from our time rolling with those far better than ourselves than feeding our egos by rolling with guys who we know we can control.
  You are 100% on when you talk about being as good as the guys with whom you train.  I also own a karate/kickboxing school in addition to training BJJ and it's amazing to go around to tournaments and other schools and see the paucity of quality instructors, especially in talent, experience and temperment. 
  As far as my BJJ training, I like to train primarily in private lessons but I do attend group classes once a week to ensure a more complete learning experience.  I have trained privately with Royler, David Adiv and Mike Mrkulic (the last two are my instructors).  The people I have met in BJJ have been nothing but fantastic and nice.  I competed last week and there wasn't one instance of nastiness or bad sportsmanship.  It was a great time.
Harley

david adivs awesome,hes a royler black belt as well as a pan am champ and has many brazilian jj awards,mrkulic,s also very good,is anthony argyros still training with them?north jersey prolly has the most and best bjj schools around imo.i remember back in the early 90,s all these bjj schools opening from royces success in the ufc,the gracie family(rorion)were marketing genius,s.ground training is very important in self defense and im glad you aint like alot of other striking art teachers and try to decieve your students into thinking otherwise,dont get me wrong,striking is just as important as ground fighting these days in top mma competition(ufc/wec)the days of just trying pure bjj in the ufc are far gone,guys know how to sprawl and brawl cause they know whats comin.back in the earlier ufc,s most guys didnt have a clue about submissions,there were exceptions like ken and the other pancrase guys that trained in japan and of course the judo guys which is pretty much the same as bjj except they emphasize on more throws rather then the ground,but they do know the submissions imo.i trained judo for 2 years and got a green belt out of cranford judo/karate,my teacher was yanni,japanese guy who is awesome.i love bodybuilding and bjj/mms equally,both have done wonders for me and id be lost without them,jesus and my wife and son are the most important things in my life and thats what keeps me going in this crazy world,thanks for reading harley,your a class act bro

[HarleyBreite]

david adivs awesome,hes a royler black belt as well as a pan am champ and has many brazilian jj awards,mrkulic,s also very good,is anthony argyros still training with them?north jersey prolly has the most and best bjj schools around imo.i remember back in the early 90,s all these bjj schools opening from royces success in the ufc,the gracie family(rorion)were marketing genius,s.ground training is very important in self defense and im glad you aint like alot of other striking art teachers and try to decieve your students into thinking otherwise,dont get me wrong,striking is just as important as ground fighting these days in top mma competition(ufc/wec)the days of just trying pure bjj in the ufc are far gone,guys know how to sprawl and brawl cause they know whats comin.back in the earlier ufc,s most guys didnt have a clue about submissions,there were exceptions like ken and the other pancrase guys that trained in japan and of course the judo guys which is pretty much the same as bjj except they emphasize on more throws rather then the ground,but they do know the submissions imo.i trained judo for 2 years and got a green belt out of cranford judo/karate,my teacher was yanni,japanese guy who is awesome.i love bodybuilding and bjj/mms equally,both have done wonders for me and id be lost without them,jesus and my wife and son are the most important things in my life and thats what keeps me going in this crazy world,thanks for reading harley,your a class act bro

Dear Graciebjj,
   Mike Mrkulic is not only my Chief Instructor and Coach, but he is one of my best friends.  He did receive his Black Belt from Royler Gracie and took 3rd Place in both the World Championships and the Pan Ams.
   David Adiv, Royler's training partner is also one of my closest friends with whom I will be sharing Thanksgiving.
   Despite having trained Shotokan and Kickboxing for 19 years and owning my own Dojo, I saw the light the very first time I saw Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ).  From that moment on, I began to train with those I thought to be the best for me as both a student and fighter.  One of the best treasures in coming to BJJ is the quality of people I have met.  They have all been great, even the guys at tournaments like last Sunday.
   It it obvious that you are very well rounded yet more importantly, well grounded.  It is my pleasure to meet you.
Harley

[Relentless]

This is called progression.