At what stage is America currently?

[Bindare_Dundat]

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. from dependence back into bondage'

I'd say we are in between 6 and 7 bordering on 8 maybe.

[garebear]

We are in the anal stage.

[Soul Crusher]

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. from dependence back into bondage'

I'd say we are in between 6 and 7 bordering on 8 maybe.

We are at 7 without a doubt.

1.  Over 50% or near that figure are dependent on social welfare of one form or another.  Whether it be SS, medicaire , welfare, wic, Section 8, medicaid, disability, etc. tens of millions of people are dependent on the taxpayer for their lives.

2.  Most people you speak to don't know world history or events or even care to know what is going.  Just talk to your friends and ask them even the most basic questions about civics.  More people care about American Idol than American History or current events.

3.  Public & Private corruption is not only condoned, but rewarded in many cases.   The Clintons, Bushes, Kennedy's , Wall Streeters, Bankers, etc.  How many people have gone to jail for the corruption and financial disaster we are in???  Not many. 

[Bindare_Dundat]

We are at 7 without a doubt.

1.  Over 50% or near that figure are dependent on social welfare of one form or another.  Whether it be SS, medicaire , welfare, wic, Section 8, medicaid, disability, etc. tens of millions of people are dependent on the taxpayer for their lives.

2.  Most people you speak to don't know world history or events or even care to know what is going.  Just talk to your friends and ask them even the most basic questions about civics.  More people care about American Idol than American History or current events.

3.  Public & Private corruption is not only condoned, but rewarded in many cases.   The Clintons, Bushes, Kennedy's , Wall Streeters, Bankers, etc.  How many people have gone to jail for the corruption and financial disaster we are in???  Not many. 

I think you're right. This simple post/question has 42 views and only 2 responses, one being totally stupid. I think the outline is very accuarate of civilizations history but no one gives a shit about anything as long as they get something free out of the deal. Unfortunatly, nothing is free, someone is paying and that attitude will turn around to bite everyone in the ass very soon.

[Soul Crusher]

Most people dont have the capacity to think about these issues without getting a headache or switching to their fantasy football team or some other garbage.

I still think Number 7 is most applicable. 

Ill take one issue for example - illegal immigration. 

Many fools in this country, and even on this board, make all sorts of apologies and rationalizations as to why is is ok to have millions of foriegners flooding our country and being allowed to leech off the system without giving up their allegiance to their home country.

What these idiots don't realize is that we have a perfect example in history where this occurred. 

Rome.

The barbarians, goths, visigoths, etc all migrated en mass to the richer Rome and, even at that time, there were romans arguing as to why it was a good thing. 

The corrupt political class did nothing about this and made the same vapid arguments that the apologists do today.

Illegal immigration weakend Rome and left them without a culture, a soul, and any means of defending themselv es anymore. 

They rotted from within as we are today. 

We are our own worst enemy and have nothing to fear from Cihna, Russia, or the ME with the traitors we have in this country who are selling us out, selling us short, and getting nothing in return.

 
 
Read Gibbons' book about the Fall of rome and it is earily similar to what we are going through here. 

[Captain Equipoise]

7, no question.

[Dan-O]

333386 put it very well and I have to agree with him.  I just hate to say it out loud, as it were.  This is a depressing thread to think about but I fear it is true.

Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[The Luke]

Rome.

The barbarians, goths, visigoths, etc all migrated en mass to the richer Rome and, even at that time, there were romans arguing as to why it was a good thing. 

The corrupt political class did nothing about this and made the same vapid arguments that the apologists do today.

Illegal immigration weakend Rome and left them without a culture, a soul, and any means of defending themselv es anymore. 

They rotted from within as we are today. 

...absolutely classic.

Have you ever read any Roman history 333386? (If that is even your real name)


When the Visigoths; Ostrogoths; Goths; Vandals; and Huns "immigrated" into Rome they sacked the city, ploughed up the streets and surrounding fields sowing salt as they went and carried off most of the populace as slaves.

That's hardly "illegal immigration" as you put it, it was a series of invasions...
-410 AD ...Alaric the First (Visigothic king) sacks Rome and empties it's treasury
-455 AD ...Geiseric (Gys Eric) the Vandal king leads a united front of Hun tribes and clans to utterly destroy the already impoverished Eternal City in revenge for the defeat (and subsequent murder) of the great unifying Hun messiah Attila, two years earlier

...There never was any mass immigration of Huns/barbarians into Roman society. Rome was weakened by a confluence of interconnected factors:
-climate change
-corruption
-cultural strife (not from the Huns though)
-mercury/lead poisoning of the equites/senatorial classes and subsequent sterility (long explanation)
-a growing anti-slavery movement (the Huns didn't keep slaves in the same manner)
-power disputes between the elite and plebian factions
-the split of the empire into eastern and western power bases
-continuous outbreaks of malaria (brought back from Africa by campaigning legions)
-friction between enlightened Pagan thought and unenlightened literalist Christianity

During the sack of 455 AD Geiseric found the city in a sorry state, depopulated by vast outlying "Zones of Pestilence" (malaria), the wealthier inhabitants had fled and the city was pale shadow of its former glory.

That's where we get the word "vandalism"... the Vandals destroyed a city that was already in a shambles.


I think you are confusing the terms Rome (the city) and Roman Empire... from the Hun/barbarian perspective there was no "immigration". They expanded their lands as Rome lost control of its far flung border territories, then struck at the heart of their old enemy when the time was right. They weren't under Roman rule when they entered southern France (for example), neither were they paying taxes to Rome... they annexed the land from a decaying empire.

They didn't come looking for work or a welfare cheque.

They were a herding nomadic society, not a settled agrarian society like Rome's. They didn't immigrate with their herds... they seized control of lands no longer patrolled by legions.


A slow cultural subversion of Romanised society did indeed happen something akin to the Mexican subplanting of white America you seem to fear so much... but it was the spread of Hellenized Jews to urbanised areas, not barbarians.
 

Just out of interest, would you characterize America's invasion of Vietnam as "immigration"? 



The Luke

[headhuntersix]

Good cut and paste job LUke...nice blaming the Jews...good job. 

[Soul Crusher]

"Climate change"

I thought Americans starting in 2000 when GWB was elected driving their SUV's caused "climate change".

Your cut and paste job is not entirely accurate BTW - I will send you information later.   

[The Luke]

Good cut and paste job LUke...nice blaming the Jews...good job. 

...it's not a cut and paste. I'm educated. No blame was attributed either... you simply have poor reading comprehension.

"Climate change"

I thought Americans starting in 2000 when GWB was elected driving their SUV's caused "climate change".

...climate change is a regular occurrence. When Hannibal crossed the Alps during the Punic Wars there were no glaciers.

As the Italian glaciers have been retreating during the past fifty years lots of frozen trees buried beneath the glaciers have been exposed. Dendrochronological dating of these trees has shown none of them to be much older than 2,000 years.

Similarly, the Mayan and Anasazi civilizations were destroyed by climate change. The European dark Ages and subsequent Renaissance were also climate driven... the dawn of classical Egypt was driven by climate change, when the Pyramids were first built the surrounding area was savanna, not desert.

In the thirteenth century the entire Nile basin was a fertile expanse encompassing Sudan, Somalia and Ethiopia... in fact while Europe was being slowly usurped by the Templars, Ethiopia was THE most powerful Christian Kingdom in the world.

When the the Chinese mapped the world between 1421 and 1424 (source of the Piri Reis Map) a warm-snap had melted so much of the polar ice sheets that the Chinese fleet, lead by it's monstrous Treasure Ships, was able to circumvent the North Pole and map the northern costs of both the North American and Eurasian continents (not possible today) and then easily mapped the coast of Antarctica, nowadays obscured by mile thick sheets of ice.

During Shakespeare's time (16th to 18th centuries) a mini-ice-age had cooled Europe sufficiently that the Thames river would freeze to a depth of ten feet of ice EVERY YEAR. If that happened today, or even if the Thames iced over at all, climatologists would have a shit-fit. 


Climate change skeptics generally don't understand the situation... climate change is regular occurrence. It is the ferocity of the recent warming and its quick pace that has scientists worried.



The Luke

[Soul Crusher]

...it's not a cut and paste. I'm educated. No blame was attributed either... you simply have poor reading comprehension.

...climate change is a regular occurrence. When Hannibal crossed the Alps during the Punic Wars there were no glaciers.

As the Italian glaciers have been retreating during the past fifty years lots of frozen trees buried beneath the glaciers have been exposed. Dendrochronological dating of these trees has shown none of them to be much older than 2,000 years.

Similarly, the Mayan and Anasazi civilizations were destroyed by climate change. The European dark Ages and subsequent Renaissance were also climate driven... the dawn of classical Egypt was driven by climate change, when the Pyramids were first built the surrounding area was savanna, not desert.

In the thirteenth century the entire Nile basin was a fertile expanse encompassing Sudan, Somalia and Ethiopia... in fact while Europe was being slowly usurped by the Templars, Ethiopia was THE most powerful Christian Kingdom in the world.

When the the Chinese mapped the world between 1421 and 1424 (source of the Piri Reis Map) a warm-snap had melted so much of the polar ice sheets that the Chinese fleet, lead by it's monstrous Treasure Ships, was able to circumvent the North Pole and map the northern costs of both the North American and Eurasian continents (not possible today) and then easily mapped the coast of Antarctica, nowadays obscured by mile thick sheets of ice.

During Shakespeare's time (16th to 18th centuries) a mini-ice-age had cooled Europe sufficiently that the Thames river would freeze to a depth of ten feet of ice EVERY YEAR. If that happened today, or even if the Thames iced over at all, climatologists would have a shit-fit. 


Climate change skeptics generally don't understand the situation... climate change is regular occurrence. It is the ferocity of the recent warming and its quick pace that has scientists worried.



The Luke

Your post is exactly the reason I am 100000000000000% percent against al gore and his cult of alarmists and people who want to impose taxes on people to combat "climate change"

Like you said, the climate is always changing.  That is earth.  Is has NOTHING do do with us driving our cars.

[The Luke]

Like you said, the climate is always changing.  That is earth.  Is has NOTHING do do with us driving our cars.

...I agree with you. I'm not convinced CO2 has anything to do with the current warming.

However, deforestation and over-fishing of the oceans may well have something to do with it.


The Luke

[freespirit]

Brainwashing starts at early age...

[laurion]

The precipice of the end, democracy just doesn't last and we have almost lasted the longest.  The reason is simple and if one looks hard enough there can hardly be debate, at some point the citizens will vote for what's good for themselves and disregard what's good for their nation.  Oddly familiar lately.....