maximize strength gains first

[jorgen]

For those of you thinking that AAS and Designer steroids are going to take you to the next level, let me give you a piece of advice.  You need to maximize your strength base first.  Unless you can squat/deadlift/bench  400/500/300 pounds respectively, you have not gotten to an advanced level of training and should really focus on getting these lifts up before even considering chemical enhancement. 

Even if you are a 'bodybuilder,' and train for hypertrophy, you will some day come to the realization that you need to lift big weights to get big..  It's no coincidence that the biggest guys are usually the strongest guys..

[tbombz]

no thats wrong sorry

[4thAD]

On this I have to agree with dizzle. Young guys that want to play pro sports can not wait to maximize lifts to start using gear. I don't necessarily support the use of hormones in really young guys, except in certain circumstances, but the above statement from the OP is not completely the truth.

[shrek]

dude that is straight up horse shit that you have to lift those numbers to be a pro or a competitor. iam close to lifting those numbers naturaly.... it has never been what you can lift to be a bodybuilder,,, the weight is a tool to use to maximize the pump and deffinition of muscle

[shrek]

i have to say it again in diff words DUDE YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT...... i will out lift you in any ex. you want naturally... how can you come up with that bs.... 300 lb bench? that was shit 17 year old kids did in football

[local hero]

yep,, totaly agree,,,,,,,, 300 bench, 400 squat, 500 dead, ( or somwhere close ),,,,, should all be acheived naturaly before juicing,, its what i would call a good natural base and if you are close to them numbers u will have a good physique already,,, u wont find any competitior on stage who looks any good  lifting any less, and thats a fact no matter how u dress it up..

now this will be hard to take in for some people, especialy the ones who have dreams of grandure who havent woken up to there genetic limitations..

id add that doing it this way will stop you shrinking down to nothing when u eventualy give up the hormones, i havent done a propper cycle in ages and im still carrying between 225 to 235 at 6' fairly lean with visable abbs etc

[local hero]

would make a good thread if some of the regulars here posted a few pics before juicing with some examples of the weight they were shifting,,, i'll have a hunt around some of my old pics and scan a few

[calfzilla]

Not really true at all.  One of the strongest guys at my old gym weighed maybe 160.  Not big at all.  I do agree that to become bigger some increased strength should be expected.   

[4thAD]

yep,, totaly agree,,,,,,,, 300 bench, 400 squat, 500 dead, ( or somwhere close ),,,,, should all be acheived naturaly before juicing,, its what i would call a good natural base and if you are close to them numbers u will have a good physique already,,, u wont find any competitior on stage who looks any good  lifting any less, and thats a fact no matter how u dress it up..

now this will be hard to take in for some people, especialy the ones who have dreams of grandure who havent woken up to there genetic limitations..

id add that doing it this way will stop you shrinking down to nothing when u eventualy give up the hormones, i havent done a propper cycle in ages and im still carrying between 225 to 235 at 6' fairly lean with visable abbs etc

Most big kids in high school can do this completely natural. These lifts don't determine any kind of physique. Some big guys that have never touched a weight in their lives could probably achieve these lifts.

[thelamefalsehood]

I think the guy is just saying try and max out your natural genetic threshhold for strength before taking AAS. Arbitrary numbers don't work well, because some guys may bench 300 naturally by age 16, others not until they are 30, to many variables.

[shrek]

now thats the way to put it but he didnt, he put a number limit to start when guys that only way 160 and can only bench 250 then they should not AAS

[jorgen]

Most big kids in high school can do this completely natural. These lifts don't determine any kind of physique. Some big guys that have never touched a weight in their lives could probably achieve these lifts.

I agree.  These lifts are completely doable and what I believe people should aim for first before considering AAS.  Are there people that lift light weights and are pretty big?  Of course.  These are exceptions.  I think that you will find, however, if you really pay attention, that the bigger guys are lifting the bigger weights.  It's really that simple.  A lot of you (not all) copying the latest workouts of IFBB pros from Flex magazine doing 20 sets for chest, hitting from all different angles would be better off on a program that maximizes strength gains in the big lifts over time.   Hell, even in Arnold's encyclopedia he mentions several times that a lot of the best bodybuilders were powerlifters first. 

This is not a thread against AAS.  I have just noticed that a lot of people come to a plateau in their lifting and think the answer is chemicals.  They can tell you all about doses of Test prop and the latest PCT but they cannot even squat twice their bodyweight with good form.  They are too busy isolating their arms with tricep kickbacks. And many poorly educated bodybuilders turn to AAS without even coming close to maximizing their natural gains.. Why don't you try maximizing your big lifts first?

[local hero]

i think a lot of u missed my point... if your not anywhere near those lifts u realy dont have any buisness playing around with gear, as many have pointed out , they are very doable... i hit them after a few yrs training as a teen, and for the average person squating 4 plates and benching 3 for reps with good form,Iwill produce a very good base... 
,
im not talking about skinny or fat freaks who are naturaly strong, im on about the normal 90% of us....

[Luv2Hurt]

i think a lot of u missed my point... if your not anywhere near those lifts u realy dont have any buisness playing around with gear, as many have pointed out , they are very doable... i hit them after a few yrs training as a teen, and for the average person squating 4 plates and benching 3 for reps with good form,Iwill produce a very good base... 
,
im not talking about skinny or fat freaks who are naturaly strong, im on about the normal 90% of us....

Im with Hero here.  Lots of fools in my gym say they can do those #'s but if you saw the short ROM and cheating in any way they can to get a lousy rep, its a joke.  Dudes with stick legs leg pressing 10 plates a side....something does not add up.  Proper training and consistancy in training means more than people give it credit for. 

Its easy to spot the people who have really put in the time on the base. 

Also very few high school kids can lift those #'s for any sort of reps. at least where i live, there must be many beasts out there that I dont see.