Author Topic: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike  (Read 537 times)

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Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« on: March 05, 2009, 03:19:49 PM »
Ripple effects from Obama's class warfare. 

Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike

Thursday, March 5, 2009 2:49 PM

Chicago philanthropist Richard Kiphart contributed generously to Barack Obama's campaign and is glad he backed a winner.

But he's among many donors and recipients in the philanthropic world worrying that Obama's new tax proposals could deter future giving at a time when many nonprofits already are in crisis mode.

"I just think they're wrong on this," said Kiphart, a corporate finance executive at global investment firm William Blair & Company. "All these organizations are crying: 'Why are they doing this to us?'"

Many wealthy Americans weren't shocked when Obama's budget proposal called for raising their income taxes. But there was surprise — and some alarm — over a separate proposal to limit the deductions that couples earning more than $250,000 can claim for charitable gifts.

Under the plan, a donor in the highest tax bracket would save $280 on a $1,000 charitable deduction, instead of $396.

Obama's budget director, Peter Orszag, says the change wouldn't occur until 2011, when the administration hopes a recovery will be under way, and there's a chance the proposal will die in Congress. But many in the nonprofit world are uneasy.

"This is a time of tremendous anxiety in the nonprofit sector," said Kathleen McCarthy, director of the Center for the Study of Philanthropy at City University of New York.

"A lot of these organizations are going to die in the next six or nine months," she said. "Saying you want to play around with the tax code only makes things worse psychologically."

Nonprofit officials and philanthropy experts interviewed by The Associated Press agreed that tax consequences are a secondary factor for many donors.

"I would guess that most of the people who support the museum do so because they have a passion for our mission and not because of the tax breaks," said Tim Hallman, director of marketing and communications at San Francisco's Asian Art Museum.

But even if only a minority of donors were deterred by the tax change, it could affect billions of dollars in donations.

Using 2006 tax data, the most recent available, Indiana University's Center on Philanthropy estimated last month that giving by affluent households would have been 4.8 percent less if Obama's proposed higher taxes and deduction limits had been in effect — a drop of $3.87 billion.

Patrick Rooney, the center's interim executive director, said stock market gyrations have an even bigger impact on giving.

"Most people don't become donors or non-donors because of changes in the tax code," he said. "On the other hand, if you're living on your wealth and you've seen your stack of chips fall 50 percent in value, you're going to re-evaluate everything. You're not going to lose your house so you can keep making donations."

A Bank of America study released Wednesday found that 52 percent of wealthy Americans wouldn't change their contributions even if they received no charitable deductions at all. According to the study, 37 percent said their gifts would decrease somewhat; 10 percent said their gifts would decrease dramatically.

The study, based on responses from 700 wealthy households to a detailed questionaire, asked about gifts made in 2007, before the recession, and did not ask how households would respond to the sort of reduced tax benefit that Obama proposes.

Claire Costello of Bank of America Philanthropic Management said a sense of crisis was prompting donors and nonprofits to think harder about such factors as efficiency and accountability.

"It's making everybody on both sides of the giving equation be more thoughtful," she said. "It's a Darwinian moment for the nonprofit sector."

At Wesleyan University in Connecticut, the vice president for university relations, Barbara-Jan Wilson, said gifts so far this fiscal year were running ahead of last year. But she worries that next year will be worse as recession-scarred donors balk at making pledges.

Wilson doubts that deductions are a prime factor in motivating Wesleyan donors, yet also suggests that Obama's proposed changes "might send the wrong message."

"We want a tax code and tax laws that encourage philanthropy," she said.

Among the biggest recent donations to higher education was a $35 million gift to Indiana University's law school by alumnus Michael Maurer. The gift, for scholarships, had been long in the planning but was announced in December amid grim economic news.

Maurer, in a telephone interview, said the recession prompted "second thoughts, but not serious second thoughts" about his gift.

"I made a commitment," he said. "In the business world you keep your commitments."

Kimerly Rorschach, director of the Nasher Museum of Art on the Duke University campus in Durham, N.C., predicted Obama's tax proposals would have minimal effect.

"People give to organizations that they love and believe in and want to support," she said. "And they've been doing that since long before tax deductions existed."

Victor Behar, 73, of Durham, who, along with his wife, Lenore, gives to the Nasher and other nonprofits, said the proposed changes would be unlikely to deter them. He said the overall state of the economy is a bigger problem.

"Our income is fairly fixed," he said. "It is dependent on what the stock market does, what the 401k does. If it continues to dwindle, we would be limited in what we would continue to give to. But that tax law change won't affect the way we give."

Kiphart, speaking at his Chicago office, said he was sure the tax proposal, if enacted, would curtail donations.

"People do factor deductions in, they just do," he said. "They're going to do the math."

Kiphart — who said he gives several million dollars a year to many causes, from African aid programs to Chicago's Lyric Opera — wouldn't rule out giving less himself.

"I'm not going to stop giving, but it is a question of margins," he said. "Could it affect my giving by 10 percent? I'm not sure."

Even a modest drop-off could devastate many nonprofits that now barely break even, Kiphart said, citing Lyric Opera as an example.

Kiphart is president of the board of the opera, which gets 34 percent of its operating budget from donations.

"If we're off by 10 percent, we can make it for one year," he said. "But if it's more than one year, we will start to cut operas."

He said it wasn't just wealthy aficionados who'd be hurt — it would also be students, who get discounted tickets thanks to donations.

"You could say, hey, these people are rich, they don't deserve the deduction," he said. "But do you want to encourage them to give or not encourage them to give? Is it good that they're giving more of their income — or is it bad?"
 
http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/obama_tax_hike/2009/03/05/188879.html

George Whorewell

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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 03:21:07 PM »
Change we can believe in!

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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2009, 03:48:42 PM »
so wait... companies who make their living on socialist handouts are now whining that they're receiving LESS free money from people?

Geez, it's like a beggar filing a complain because he can't panhandle as much as he used to.

Charities are the most liberal things you could imagine- companies that beg for donations, use a lot of the $ for their own salaries and "admin costs", then give the money to some lazy person on welfare who can't get their shit together.

Are you guys seriously defending charities' rights and pining for their hard times? LMAO

Dos Equis

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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 03:59:00 PM »
so wait... companies who make their living on socialist handouts are now whining that they're receiving LESS free money from people?

Geez, it's like a beggar filing a complain because he can't panhandle as much as he used to.

Charities are the most liberal things you could imagine- companies that beg for donations, use a lot of the $ for their own salaries and "admin costs", then give the money to some lazy person on welfare who can't get their shit together.

Are you guys seriously defending charities' rights and pining for their hard times? LMAO

Oh brother.   ::)  Charities get most of their funds from private donations, not the government.  People voluntarily giving to charities, which in turn help needy people, is actually one of the best components of capitalism.   

Some of the stuff I read on here is just baffling.   :-\

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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2009, 04:05:20 PM »
Oh brother.   ::)  Charities get most of their funds from private donations, not the government.  People voluntarily giving to charities, which in turn help needy people, is actually one of the best components of capitalism.  

Some of the stuff I read on here is just baffling.   :-\

My point is that you have a company - a charity - which has some highly paid execs on it, who skim 20% of donations for their own duties.

They take this money, take their cut, and then just write checks out to causes they view as worthy.

It seems like a cake job - giving yourself a $50 or $100k salary just to cash checks and write new ones to sad sacks out there, down on their luck.

now, things are tight, and people aren't donating as much, and they're whining about ppl not giving as much.  perhaps they'll have to get real jobs that don't involving begging, taking a cut, then giving $ back to beggars.



honestly, i'm being a bit extreme for arguments' sake, as I often do... but it's hard to feel bad for a company whose only business is taking money, writing checks to poor people, and writing themselves a fairly big check for their trouble.  If they worked for free, that'd be one thing.  But when VPs of companies are making $130k a year, and crying about not getting enough donations, really it's funny, ya know?

Butterbean

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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 04:09:09 PM »


Charities are the most liberal things you could imagine- companies that beg for donations, use a lot of the $ for their own salaries and "admin costs", then give the money to some lazy person on welfare who can't get their shit together.



But there are good charities that focus on helping people that are making an effort to change their situations and require them to do so which is not merely giving money to lazy people. 

Also, American Cancer Assoc, Humane Society, Habitat for Humanity, providing scholarships to students etc etc. 

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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2009, 04:13:10 PM »
My point is that you have a company - a charity - which has some highly paid execs on it, who skim 20% of donations for their own duties.

They take this money, take their cut, and then just write checks out to causes they view as worthy.

It seems like a cake job - giving yourself a $50 or $100k salary just to cash checks and write new ones to sad sacks out there, down on their luck.

now, things are tight, and people aren't donating as much, and they're whining about ppl not giving as much.  perhaps they'll have to get real jobs that don't involving begging, taking a cut, then giving $ back to beggars.



honestly, i'm being a bit extreme for arguments' sake, as I often do... but it's hard to feel bad for a company whose only business is taking money, writing checks to poor people, and writing themselves a fairly big check for their trouble.  If they worked for free, that'd be one thing.  But when VPs of companies are making $130k a year, and crying about not getting enough donations, really it's funny, ya know?

I see the point you are making and I agree with you to a point.  There are charities that give a relatively small percentage of donor money to the actual cause.  Those charities should be avoided imo. 

As far as a Director of a charity making upwards of 100,000k, sometimes those people are worth the money.  I was on a board where the Director made over 80,000k and he was worth every penny.
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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2009, 04:34:29 PM »
My point is that you have a company - a charity - which has some highly paid execs on it, who skim 20% of donations for their own duties.

They take this money, take their cut, and then just write checks out to causes they view as worthy.

It seems like a cake job - giving yourself a $50 or $100k salary just to cash checks and write new ones to sad sacks out there, down on their luck.

now, things are tight, and people aren't donating as much, and they're whining about ppl not giving as much.  perhaps they'll have to get real jobs that don't involving begging, taking a cut, then giving $ back to beggars.



honestly, i'm being a bit extreme for arguments' sake, as I often do... but it's hard to feel bad for a company whose only business is taking money, writing checks to poor people, and writing themselves a fairly big check for their trouble.  If they worked for free, that'd be one thing.  But when VPs of companies are making $130k a year, and crying about not getting enough donations, really it's funny, ya know?

That's not extreme.  It's just wrong.  I'm not even sure where to begin.  That's not how nonprofits work.  The organized, larger entities, have boards and officers.  The board determines salaries.  Officers don't just take their "cut."  There are bylaws that govern what they can and can't do.  There are usually secretaries and treasurers.  There are audits.  It's not nearly as loose as you describe.  

And maybe you need to go back and actually read the story.  The problem is taxpayers will have their charitable deductions reduced by Obama, which will result in taxpayers making fewer donations.  When nonprofits survive on donations, of course they are going to "cry" when the government, through class warfare, may shut them down.  

And who suffers?  All the people who receive help from these nonprofits.  

  

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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2009, 04:39:28 PM »


And who suffers?  All the people who receive help from these nonprofits.  

  

And then in some cases gov't will have to provide more for them
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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2009, 04:41:28 PM »
i agree charities are wonderful things.  I'm not syaing that.
i'm saying if donations get smaller, they can't blame the govt.  They just have to scale back operations.

If they can't afford to pay a board, then they need a smaller board.
Or, if they can't afford to give out $50,000,000 a year, then just give out 25,000,000 per year.

making it out to be "Obama hates charities" is what I'm seeing here.   yes, donations are fewer.  It's due to tax policy, state of economy, lessening retirement, etc.

If the ppl run their charity for free, donating their time, then yes, they have right to complain.  if it's their livelihood, and they are crying because they get to take a pay cut, then yes, tough... i am sickenined to know that 20% (or whatever" of every dollar I donate will go to "admin" costs... which means the VP, his brother-in law, their friends' kids, and anyone else they can give a paid position to.

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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2009, 04:42:38 PM »
And then in some cases gov't will have to provide more for them

Good point. 

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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2009, 04:42:41 PM »
the friggin thing hasn't even gone into effect yet.

Charities are being impacted because their formerly rich benefactors are feeling the pinch of this fucked up economy

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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2009, 04:51:41 PM »


If they can't afford to pay a board, then they need a smaller board.


I've been on 2 diff. boards and neither was a paid position.  I'm not sure what % are though.
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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2009, 04:58:28 PM »
I've been on 2 diff. boards and neither was a paid position.  I'm not sure what % are though.

I've been on a number and never been paid.  I think that's true of most nonprofits. 

George Whorewell

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Re: Philanthropists, Charities Reeling Under Obama Tax Hike
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2009, 05:00:35 PM »
Rich people got us into this mess and now they have the audacity to complain about getting tax breaks on the money they donate!?!? Everyone should be equally poor so there are no charaties. Anyone who makes 150k+ yearly and doesn't donate to charity should be forced to do so, by paying all the of countries income tax- oops-- I mean they should be forced to give money to the government, so the government can give it to the rest of us!