Author Topic: Cap & Trade and Health Care bills are making the economy worse - Economists  (Read 2248 times)

Soul Crusher

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.Many Reluctant to Hire Because of New Taxes, Rules
 www.yahoo.com

        Buzz up! 98 Print..On Tuesday January 12, 2010, 4:12 pm EST

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A potential wave of new regulation and higher taxes may be scaring many businesses from hiring, prolonging any rebound in employment, say business groups and economists.

The prospect of increased federal and state regulation and taxes has been particularly disruptive to the hiring plans of small- and medium-sized businesses, which have historically generated about two-thirds of the nation's jobs.

"I don't really see the private sector hiring much in the next few months," says Brian Bethune, an economist at Global Insight. "For the small-business sector there is just too much uncertainty about what happens beyond 2010."

Not only is the Obama administration seeking to push through major overhauls of energy and health care policy, it is also expected to impose dozens of new workplace rules and raise income taxes.

As Washington and Wall Street grow increasingly restless about the unusually slow pace of job creation and the risk of a so-called jobless recovery, key business groups have begun to bang the drum more loudly.

In reporting that its small business optimism index fell for the second straight month in December, the National Federation of Independent Business Tuesday said members' No. 2 reason for not expanding payrolls was the prospect of government policy initiatives.

Twelve percent said it was not a good time to expand because of the political environment. Over the next three months, 15 percent said they plan to reduce employment, while eight percent plan to create new jobs.

"We're hearing it more and more from our membership," says Bill Rys, the NFIB's tax counsel. "At the federal level, there's uncertainty about tax rates, health care costs, energy costs. You also have what's going on at the state and local levels, with new fees and taxes. They're reluctant to jump back in."

Rys says the effect has been more pronounced in the past few months, perhaps mirroring the legislative progress of the massive health care reform bill, the highly-publicized Copenhagen climate change conference and new EPA rules on carbon emissions, as well as the approach of 2010, when the near decade-long Bush administration tax cuts are expected to expire.

The NFIB has some 350,000 members with an average size of eight to ten employees.

Much like the severity of the recession, the degree of potential government change is a historic first for many business owners.

"When they went into business this isn't something they considered," says Rys.

The American Chamber of Commerce's latest economist forecast cited similar impediments.

"To create jobs we must ease the uncertainty over tax increases as well as health, environmental, labor, legal and fiscal policies," the group's president and CEO Thomas J. Donohue said in a speech Tuesday.

Chamber members are predominantly small companies with ten or less employees.

In a recent interview with CNBC.com, the group's chief economist, Martin Regalia, described a paralyzing uncertainty over policy issues, saying that many members "had adopted an attitude of survival" and "few talked about net new hiring."

If so, that will not go unnoticed. Small businesses were hemorrhaging jobs in the first quarter of 2009 when the recession was cutting deep into the economy.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, companies with 1-4 employees lost 140,000 jobs in that period; firms with 10-19 employees shed 220,000 jobs. (That's the most recent period covered by the data.)

Some of those jobs as well as new ones would normally be created in the coming year.

Coming out of the previous two recessions, companies in the two groups were responsible for net job gains relatively soon after the downturn had ended and picked up momentum as the recovery was established.

In the third quarter of 1993, the 1-4-employee group created about 120,000 jobs, while the 14-20-person group added 60,000. That may not seem like a lot, but the workforce was much smaller then.

Near the peak of the last economic recovery, the two groups were combining for more than 140,000 jobs a quarter.



Though data for the past three quarters isn't available, people who follow small- and medium- sized business say anecdotal evidence from owners is compelling

"A lot of small, medium sized businesses are waiting to see what health care is going to mean, in terms of cost," says John Challenger, of the outplacement firm Challenger, Grey and Christmas, "I think they're also waiting and seeing on the estate tax. The other one I hear the most about is the union issue-the worry that there could be much higher labor costs, that might curtail hiring."

Amid the massive uncertainty, there are levels of certainty.

It's unclear, for instance, what health care will cost small businesses, which tend not to provide it to employees. There's talk of some kind of exemption, but it's not clear yet.

The cost for those providing insurance will go up-at least in the short term; fees for health insurers, medical devices and branded drugs, for instance, start to kick in 2011 and work their way into the broader cost chain.

On another front, the Obama administration has said it intends to introduce some 90 new workplace rules this year.

Two thousand and ten may also bring the approval of cap-and-trade legislation, which given the complex scientific and economic models involved, will create another long list of question marks.

Changes in tax law are almost a certainty, even if the specifics are still unclear. The estate tax, which-as part of the Bush tax cut plan-is zero in 2011, is expected to be raised in future years and that change may even be made retroactive.

Income taxes for the two highest tax brackets are expected to rise; the Obama administration at various times has said taxes will be increased on people earning 200,000 or $250,000.



"When people talk about who's making above $200,000, it tends to pull in a lot of small business people," says Mark Calabria of the Cato Institute, a former senior staffer on the Senate Banking Committee.

Budget-strapped states have already raised taxes or intend to do so.

Unlike the complex tax structure of global corporations, there are few or any loopholes.

"If you are talking about the entrepreneurial class, they run a small business, have a handful of employees and they just report that as regular income," adds Bethune.

Less income, more expenses-it's hardly a prescription for expansion, says experts.

Small- and medium-sized business owners are still recovering from the real estate collapse and the credit crunch; it is not uncommon for them to use real estate as collateral or credit lines to make payroll.

On top of that, like big business, they're still waiting for a return in demand

"It may mean you take less investment chances," says Challenger. In that context, jobs are looking might chancy."


•Slideshow: Biggest Job-Losing Industries of Next Decade

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I havebeenscreaing thisfo months and the s called "progressives" still dont get it.  The only way our nation succeeds is if Obama fails.

kcballer

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Here's the thing.  Your screaming is adding to the uncertainty.  No one knows what exactly a cap and trade bill will look like but in some effort to gain political points people like you yell and scream about something that hasn't even been thoroughly debated, therefore adding the to uncertainty because NO ONE has the facts.  If people like you waited until you understood what exactly was debated and going to be passed you might have a better idea on how and if it would impact business.  Rather than scare mongering yourselves and adding fuel to the uncertainty fire. 
Abandon every hope...

BM OUT

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We dont need to debate cap and trade.We KNOW FOR A FACT that the stupid ass stimulous bill is HURTIMNG the economy not helping it.Obama LOVES it when the economy tanks.

Soul Crusher

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Here's the thing.  Your screaming is adding to the uncertainty.  No one knows what exactly a cap and trade bill will look like but in some effort to gain political points people like you yell and scream about something that hasn't even been thoroughly debated, therefore adding the to uncertainty because NO ONE has the facts.  If people like you waited until you understood what exactly was debated and going to be passed you might have a better idea on how and if it would impact business.  Rather than scare mongering yourselves and adding fuel to the uncertainty fire. 

KC - if you, like me, were in business, and were facing higher health, energy, income, and other taxes due to crazy govt schemes, the last thing you would do is hire anyone. 

kcballer

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KC - if you, like me, were in business, and were facing higher health, energy, income, and other taxes due to crazy govt schemes, the last thing you would do is hire anyone. 

What you are failing to account for is that if in fact Obama cut taxes to historic lows, most companies would pocket that money and still take a 'wait and see' approach.  They aren't about to jump right back into the fire especially those businesses that rely on consumers who are going to continue spending less for perhaps years to come.

BTW you don't even know the actual cost of any of this yet and how you can offset any cost.  You're just scare mongering 333 pure and simple.  Speculating on something that hasn't even passed or come close to it.  Why oh why would you do this? Oh i know.  Political points and trying to 'scare' people into voting GOP.
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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What you are failing to account for is that if in fact Obama cut taxes to historic lows, most companies would pocket that money and still take a 'wait and see' approach.  They aren't about to jump right back into the fire especially those businesses that rely on consumers who are going to continue spending less for perhaps years to come.

BTW you don't even know the actual cost of any of this yet and how you can offset any cost.  You're just scare mongering 333 pure and simple.  Speculating on something that hasn't even passed or come close to it.  Why oh why would you do this? Oh i know.  Political points and trying to 'scare' people into voting GOP.

No, I am going by his own statements, experience with this nonsense in Europe, the CBO, CATO, Heritage, and other sources.  Remember this gem KC? 

This is why I hate this communist marxist POFS asswipe. 


kcballer

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No, I am going by his own statements, experience with this nonsense in Europe, the CBO, CATO, Heritage, and other sources.  Remember this gem KC? 

This is why I hate this communist marxist POFS asswipe. 



So you're going on nothing but a sound byte? Congrats 333 you're still clutching.  It would be irresponsible for a president to not say there is a possibility of a utility increase from this legislation.  It's softening the blow if it does in fact come.  If you like everyone else would wait until we know exactly what this bill will look like post debate and partisanship, then we can make comments on cost, taxes, jobs etc.  Until then you still have nothing 333 except a sound byte.  Whoop de doo impeach him now  ::)
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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So you're going on nothing but a sound byte? Congrats 333 you're still clutching.  It would be irresponsible for a president to not say there is a possibility of a utility increase from this legislation.  It's softening the blow if it does in fact come.  If you like everyone else would wait until we know exactly what this bill will look like post debate and partisanship, then we can make comments on cost, taxes, jobs etc.  Until then you still have nothing 333 except a sound byte.  Whoop de doo impeach him now  ::)

He didnt say possibility fool.  He said it will "necessaailry skyrocket".  People who have seen this clip are appauled at this garbage. 

kcballer

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He didnt say possibility fool.  He said it will "necessaailry skyrocket".  People who have seen this clip are appauled at this garbage. 

To what? Do you know what it will cost exactly for you or anyone else?  No you don't do you.  You have a youtube sound byte that you cling to like a baby to it's mother, hoping it will stoke your (mostly) unjustified anger. 
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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To what? Do you know what it will cost exactly for you or anyone else?  No you don't do you.  You have a youtube sound byte that you cling to like a baby to it's mother, hoping it will stoke your (mostly) unjustified anger. 

Yes I do!  Obama's own report said it would cost at least 1750.00 per family per year.  Other estimates are much higher.   

kcballer

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Yes I do!  Obama's own report said it would cost at least 1750.00 per family per year.  Other estimates are much higher.   

And has this been passed yet 333? Has it been debated in the house and congress? Is it now law because Obama put out the frame work?  See you don't know the real cost yet you know the theoretical cost but that's it.  congrats you basically know nothing. 
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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And has this been passed yet 333? Has it been debated in the house and congress? Is it now law because Obama put out the frame work?  See you don't know the real cost yet you know the theoretical cost but that's it.  congrats you basically know nothing. 


Here is another clip of this jackass.  I swear KC he really is going to drive us into a depression like no one has ever seen. 


kcballer

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Here is another clip of this jackass.  I swear KC he really is going to drive us into a depression like no one has ever seen. 



I swear you have nothing but sound bytes and theories because it hasn't even been debated in the house or congress yet. 
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Just the possibility of this nonsense going forward is making business adjust accordingly.  I have been 100% correct about this and the statistics prove it. 

kcballer

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Just the possibility of this nonsense going forward is making business adjust accordingly.  I have been 100% correct about this and the statistics prove it. 

You have been 100% correct about what? About the potential policy that may be one day law (which i highly doubt will be as you see it now post debate in the house and congress)? Or about cap and trade as a whole?  Because if it is the latter you are sorely mistaken in your haste to back slap yourself.  Cap and trade has been used before in the US by G H W Bush with success, is advocated by many world wide economists as a viable way to stop greenhouse emissions without bankrupting companies (including U of Chicago econ professors) and is the best solution to reducing greenhouse gas emissions that we have at the moment as seen by BOTH parties running for the presidency on a cap and trade energy platform. 
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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You have been 100% correct about what? About the potential policy that may be one day law (which i highly doubt will be as you see it now post debate in the house and congress)? Or about cap and trade as a whole?  Because if it is the latter you are sorely mistaken in your haste to back slap yourself.  Cap and trade has been used before in the US by G H W Bush with success, is advocated by many world wide economists as a viable way to stop greenhouse emissions without bankrupting companies (including U of Chicago econ professors) and is the best solution to reducing greenhouse gas emissions that we have at the moment as seen by BOTH parties running for the presidency on a cap and trade energy platform. 

I said that Obama's plan would cause not help UE. 


Soul Crusher

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Dingell admits it was a failure in Europe and is a massive tax hike.  Is he lying too?