Author Topic: american law about shooting a burglar  (Read 2453 times)

Butterbean

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Re: american law about shooting a burglar
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2010, 03:40:46 PM »
they where mexican illegals,  not black , the protesters where black

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A Man's Home Is His Castle, and He Can Defend It

'Castle Doctrine' Gives Texans Unprecedented Authority to Take Action Against Intruders

424 comments
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG
Feb. 21, 2008




In Texas, more than ever before, burglars and thieves are on notice.

From a quiet street in an upscale neighborhood outside Houston to a junk-strewn yard on the other side of the tracks, some Texans are shooting first and asking questions later.
When is it OK to shoot first?

In the Lone Star state, where the six-gun tamed the frontier, shooting bad guys is a time-honored tradition. But a new state law, based on the old idea that "a man's home is his castle," gives Texans unprecedented legal authority to use deadly force.

Watch a report on the law Saturday, Feb. 23, on "World News." Check your local listings for air time.

In December, Damon Barone confronted a burglar breaking into his Houston home in the middle of the night. His wife, baby daughter and 6-year-old son were asleep when Barone heard a commotion and grabbed his Glock handgun.

"I heard a crashing through my window … [in] my bedroom, and I got my gun," said Barone.

"When I came around the corner, I saw the silhouette in my window, I pointed my weapon, I fired three times," he said.

Asked if he was shooting to kill, Barone said, "Yes."

The burglar Barone shot dead had a lengthy criminal record, and Barone had a permit for his gun. Even before the new law, he certainly could have been justified in using deadly force. But the "Castle Law" gives Barone added protection from criminal prosecution and even civil lawsuits.

Barone is "positive" that he did the right thing.

"And if I had to do it over again, I would," he added. "I mean, that's the safety of my family over us being hurt. It's a no-brainer for me."

'I'm Gonna Shoot!'

Even in Texas, some prosecutors are wary of the new law. It expands Texans' rights to use deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplaces. And no longer do they have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before they shoot.

"There's too many imponderables in this law, whereas the previous law was working just fine," said Warren Diepraam, the Harris County Assistant District Attorney. "Frankly, life is precious."

Consider the case of Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in an affluent subdivision in Pasadena, Texas. Last November, he called 911 to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."

Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn — sounding angrier by the moment — cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said.
"Stay in the house," the dispatcher said.
"They're getting away," Horn replied.
"That's all right," said the dispatcher. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?"
"***damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.

Self-Defense?

Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop … and then shooting them both.

"Move — you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

"Both suspects were shot in the back," said Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

Horn fatally shot the burglars, two illegal immigrants from Colombia named Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus. Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancιe, wants to see Joe Horn prosecuted.

"This man took the law into his own hands," she said. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside. It was his choice to go outside and his choice to take two lives."

A Houston grand jury will now hear the case. Horn turned down an ABC News request for an interview, but his attorney Tom Lambright insists Horn was entirely justified.

"He was afraid for his life," said Lambright. "He was afraid for his safety, and then they charged him. I don't think Joe had time to make a conscious decision. I think he only had time to react to what was going on. Short answer is, he was defending his life. "

Lambright acknowledges that the 911 dispatcher urged Horn to stay inside, but said, "Joe was doing what he thought was necessary. As a man, he thought it was his duty to protect his house, his neighborhood, his community."

The Horn case has aroused plenty of passion. At a demonstration outside his home, police in riot gear stood by as activists demanded prosecution while counter-demonstrators defended him, including a group of bikers led by Randy Laird.

"In this grand jury decision, we look for a complete acquittal, no charge of any kind, and that's what we believe will be right," Laird said. "That's what's going to make either the Castle Doctrine stand or fall."

The Castle Next Door

The critical legal question may hinge on whether Horn acted in a reasonable way to defend his neighbor's property.

"You cannot take another person's life in defense of their property unless you're somehow given permission by the other person to protect their property," said Diepraam.

On that 911 call, the dispatcher asked Horn directly about the owners of the house that was being burglarized, and whether he knew them.
Castle Law
(abc news)

"I really don't know these neighbors," Horn said. "I know the neighbors on the other side really well … I can assure you if it had been their house, I'd already have done something." Still, Lambright says that his client "absolutely" had his neighbors' permission.

"There's no question about it," he said. "They'd tell you today that they are very happy that he was there and that he was watching out. Every neighbor in the state of Texas watches out for one another."

"In most situations, calling 911 is the best remedy, not calling out for your 9-millimeter," said Diepraam.

Damon Barone, who killed a burglar in his own home, isn't sure whether Joe Horn was justified, but he does believe the Castle Doctrine has already delivered a crystal clear message to criminals.

Barone said that in Texas, the occupational hazard of burglarizing someone's home is "death."

"If you're lucky, you'll get arrested and sent to jail," he said.

So in Texas, the old tradition of shooting bad guys carries on. The big question now is whether a man's castle also includes … his neighbor's home.




http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=4272882&page=1
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pugalist666

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Re: american law about shooting a burglar
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2010, 03:46:21 PM »
Was this it (scroll to the bold font)?


A Man's Home Is His Castle, and He Can Defend It

'Castle Doctrine' Gives Texans Unprecedented Authority to Take Action Against Intruders

424 comments
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG
Feb. 21, 2008




In Texas, more than ever before, burglars and thieves are on notice.

From a quiet street in an upscale neighborhood outside Houston to a junk-strewn yard on the other side of the tracks, some Texans are shooting first and asking questions later.
When is it OK to shoot first?

In the Lone Star state, where the six-gun tamed the frontier, shooting bad guys is a time-honored tradition. But a new state law, based on the old idea that "a man's home is his castle," gives Texans unprecedented legal authority to use deadly force.

Watch a report on the law Saturday, Feb. 23, on "World News." Check your local listings for air time.

In December, Damon Barone confronted a burglar breaking into his Houston home in the middle of the night. His wife, baby daughter and 6-year-old son were asleep when Barone heard a commotion and grabbed his Glock handgun.

"I heard a crashing through my window … [in] my bedroom, and I got my gun," said Barone.

"When I came around the corner, I saw the silhouette in my window, I pointed my weapon, I fired three times," he said.

Asked if he was shooting to kill, Barone said, "Yes."

The burglar Barone shot dead had a lengthy criminal record, and Barone had a permit for his gun. Even before the new law, he certainly could have been justified in using deadly force. But the "Castle Law" gives Barone added protection from criminal prosecution and even civil lawsuits.

Barone is "positive" that he did the right thing.

"And if I had to do it over again, I would," he added. "I mean, that's the safety of my family over us being hurt. It's a no-brainer for me."

'I'm Gonna Shoot!'

Even in Texas, some prosecutors are wary of the new law. It expands Texans' rights to use deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplaces. And no longer do they have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before they shoot.

"There's too many imponderables in this law, whereas the previous law was working just fine," said Warren Diepraam, the Harris County Assistant District Attorney. "Frankly, life is precious."

Consider the case of Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in an affluent subdivision in Pasadena, Texas. Last November, he called 911 to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."

Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn — sounding angrier by the moment — cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said.
"Stay in the house," the dispatcher said.
"They're getting away," Horn replied.
"That's all right," said the dispatcher. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?"
"***damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.

Self-Defense?

Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop … and then shooting them both.

"Move — you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

"Both suspects were shot in the back," said Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

Horn fatally shot the burglars, two illegal immigrants from Colombia named Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus. Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancιe, wants to see Joe Horn prosecuted.

"This man took the law into his own hands," she said. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside. It was his choice to go outside and his choice to take two lives."

A Houston grand jury will now hear the case. Horn turned down an ABC News request for an interview, but his attorney Tom Lambright insists Horn was entirely justified.

"He was afraid for his life," said Lambright. "He was afraid for his safety, and then they charged him. I don't think Joe had time to make a conscious decision. I think he only had time to react to what was going on. Short answer is, he was defending his life. "

Lambright acknowledges that the 911 dispatcher urged Horn to stay inside, but said, "Joe was doing what he thought was necessary. As a man, he thought it was his duty to protect his house, his neighborhood, his community."

The Horn case has aroused plenty of passion. At a demonstration outside his home, police in riot gear stood by as activists demanded prosecution while counter-demonstrators defended him, including a group of bikers led by Randy Laird.

"In this grand jury decision, we look for a complete acquittal, no charge of any kind, and that's what we believe will be right," Laird said. "That's what's going to make either the Castle Doctrine stand or fall."

The Castle Next Door

The critical legal question may hinge on whether Horn acted in a reasonable way to defend his neighbor's property.

"You cannot take another person's life in defense of their property unless you're somehow given permission by the other person to protect their property," said Diepraam.

On that 911 call, the dispatcher asked Horn directly about the owners of the house that was being burglarized, and whether he knew them.
Castle Law
(abc news)

"I really don't know these neighbors," Horn said. "I know the neighbors on the other side really well … I can assure you if it had been their house, I'd already have done something." Still, Lambright says that his client "absolutely" had his neighbors' permission.

"There's no question about it," he said. "They'd tell you today that they are very happy that he was there and that he was watching out. Every neighbor in the state of Texas watches out for one another."

"In most situations, calling 911 is the best remedy, not calling out for your 9-millimeter," said Diepraam.

Damon Barone, who killed a burglar in his own home, isn't sure whether Joe Horn was justified, but he does believe the Castle Doctrine has already delivered a crystal clear message to criminals.

Barone said that in Texas, the occupational hazard of burglarizing someone's home is "death."

"If you're lucky, you'll get arrested and sent to jail," he said.

So in Texas, the old tradition of shooting bad guys carries on. The big question now is whether a man's castle also includes … his neighbor's home.




http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=4272882&page=1
thats it

Butterbean

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Re: american law about shooting a burglar
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2010, 03:46:50 PM »


Joe Horn cleared by grand jury in Pasadena shootings
Panel issues no-bill after two weeks of testimony
By BRIAN ROGERS, RUTH RENDON and DALE LEZON Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle
June 30, 2008, 11:47PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/5864151.html


A Harris County grand jury on Monday ended the rancorous seven-month debate over Pasadena resident Joe Horn's decision to gun down two illegal immigrant burglars in his front yard, concluding the act was a justifiable use of deadly force and not murder.

The grand jury heard two weeks of testimony from witnesses, including Horn. They likely also heard his breathless 911 call, during which the increasingly frustrated retiree ignored a dispatcher's pleas to stay inside and out of harm's way. The Nov. 14 call ended with the sound of Horn racking a shell into his 12-gauge shotgun's chamber followed by three gunshots that killed Colombians Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 38.

Each man was shot in the back. They had taken about $2,000 in the burglary.

Horn's defense hinged on his assertion that he fired out of fear for his life, making the shooting justifiable under Texas law. The law also permits the use of deadly force to protect property under some circumstances.

District Attorney Ken Magidson said he couldn't comment on the grand jury's secret proceedings.

"In Texas, a person has a right to use deadly force in certain circumstances to protect property ... and that's basically what the grand jurors had to deal with," Magidson said.

After the announcement, Horn's attorney said his 62-year-old client was no vigilante.

"Joe was not some sort of wild cowboy," Tom Lambright said. "He was trying to help police. He was put in a situation where he didn't have any choice."

Lambright said Horn was "relieved" the investigation was over and he was cleared. "When I talked to him on the telephone I could hear it in his voice — not giddy, just relieved."

Others decried the decision as a miscarriage of justice.

Frank Ortiz, a member of the local League of United Latin American Citizens chapter, said he hopes federal authorities investigate the case further.

"That's amazing that they would no-bill him with so much evidence against him," Ortiz said. "It's amazing to me that anyone with a Hispanic surname cannot get justice. This was no more than a vigilante."

In his 911 call, Horn cited a newly enacted Texas law, the "castle doctrine," which authorizes the use of deadly force during a home invasion.

But Sen. Jeff Wentworth, who wrote the law, said it did not apply to Horn's case.

"It was not an issue in this case other than him saying incorrectly that he understood it to mean he could protect his neighbor's property," said Wentworth, R-San Antonio.

He said the castle doctrine simply didn't apply because, although the burglars were running across Horn's lawn, Horn's home wasn't under siege — his neighbor's home was.

"It comes from the saying 'A man's home is his castle,' " Wentworth said. "But this wasn't his castle."

Lambright said even though many people, including Horn's neighbors, have called him a hero, Horn doesn't believe he is.

The attorney said Torres, who was on parole for a drug conviction, and Diego Ortiz were near the front door when Horn stepped outside.

"They were attacking," Lambright said. "It scared him to death."

Police guard neighborhood
At Horn's home, boards formed a makeshift barricade on the front walk, supporting a red "No Trespassing" sign.

Police patrolled in force — by car, motorcycle and bicycle — and stood guard at the subdivision's entrances. They said they were there to keep the peace in case protesters showed up.

No protesters had arrived by late Monday.

Some of Horn's neighbors on Timberline Drive greeted news that he won't face criminal charges with enthusiasm; others hung "no comment" signs on their front doors.

"I just praise God that he was not indicted, that our country is still behind our good, honest people," said Velma Cabello, 61. "He is a hero in my book."

She lives in Humble, but was house-sitting Monday a few doors down from Horn's home.

"I would love for him to be my neighbor, for someone to watch over me like that," Cabello said.

"I'm glad he's not going to jail, but it's a bad thing, killing a couple people," said John White, 51, who lives half a block away from Horn. "It's sad for everyone, him and the victims."

Horn was alone inside the home he shares with his daughter's family around 2 p.m. on Nov. 14 when he was heard glass shattering next door, spotted Ortiz and Torres crawling through a window and called 911 to report the break-in.

The operator repeatedly urged him to stay in his house, but Horn said he did not believe it would be right to let the burglars get away.

"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn told the operator. "You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."

The operator replied: "Don't go outside."

Then the tape recorded Horn warning: "Move and you're dead!" Two quick shots can be heard on the tape, followed by a pause and then a third shot.

Detective was on scene
Pasadena police have said a detective in plainclothes had parked in front of Horn's house in response to the 911 call, and saw the two men before they crossed into Horn's front yard.

Police believe that neither Horn nor the burglars knew an officer was present.

When Horn confronted the men in his yard, he raised his shotgun to his shoulder, police have said. However, the men ignored his order to freeze.

Authorities have said one man ran toward Horn but had angled away toward the street when he was shot in the back just before reaching the curb.

Ortiz and Torres died a short distance from Horn's house.

A news release from the city of Pasadena read, in part, "We hope that the decision of the grand jury, while difficult for some to accept, will be respected as the product of a careful weighing of all the facts by an impartial panel of citizens."

Chronicle reporter Jennifer Latson contributed.
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Re: american law about shooting a burglar
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2010, 03:50:15 PM »
i betcha for that moment when he cocked the gun...

the 2 idiots had a chance to drop the jewelry and put their hands in the air.

instead, they were probably stupid shits who grinned and made fast moves.  it's dark and he has no idea if they're pulling a gun or not,

ToxicAvenger

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Re: american law about shooting a burglar
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2010, 03:57:39 PM »
in pakistan u can shoot people.....


the end
carpe` vaginum!

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Re: american law about shooting a burglar
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2010, 04:00:30 PM »
thanks stella.

i have loved ones staying in florida and there has been a spate of local breakins in the neighbourhood.

so i have been worried for their safety.

3 guys knocked on a back window of a neighbours house last week- 1 was an adult and 2 late teens. the homeowners were out of the house but a kid was inside.

he saw them and ran to a neighbours house to call the cops.

fucking peasants should find a real job.  >:(
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pugalist666

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Re: american law about shooting a burglar
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2010, 04:01:36 PM »
in pakistan u can shoot people.....


the end
in pakistan every one smells like dumpster....


the end

FREAKgeek

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Re: american law about shooting a burglar
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2010, 04:06:05 PM »
they where mexican illegals,  not black , the protesters where black

I'm not gonna turn this into a racist thing, but they looked black and the protestors referred to them as brothers, not the point.


http://moretexastruth.blogspot.com/2007/11/photos-and-bios-of-criminals-killed-in.html

Butterbean

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Re: american law about shooting a burglar
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2010, 04:07:13 PM »
thanks stella.

i have loved ones staying in florida and there has been a spate of local breakins in the neighbourhood.

so i have been worried for their safety.

3 guys knocked on a back window of a neighbours house last week- 1 was an adult and 2 late teens. the homeowners were out of the house but a kid was inside.

he saw them and ran to a neighbours house to call the cops.

fucking peasants should find a real job.  >:(

Very scary for the kid!

Hope everyone stays safe!


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ToxicAvenger

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Re: american law about shooting a burglar
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2010, 04:18:22 PM »
in pakistan every one smells like dumpster....


the end

thats cause we bathe in curry
carpe` vaginum!

pugalist666

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Re: american law about shooting a burglar
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2010, 04:33:42 PM »
thats cause we bathe in curry
well played