Stimulus Bill failed by 6 Million jobs and made situation far worse.

[Soul Crusher]

I'm being serious here... how many jobs were created by the stim, with link?  Thanks!

Zero.  Look at the UE rate. 

[240 is Back]

What was unemployment at last year? Where is it this year? Thanks!

Okay.  So the Stim bill promised no change in UE, and an addition of X million jobs?

I'll happily declare it a failure, if someone can break down the actual numbers, stated and actual goals.  Then, give me the rubric for success, with some precedent.

For example - "Obama promised X million jobs.  He created Y millino jobs.  He missed W million jobs, a Z% clip.  We allow zero slack in the timeline.  We allow zero slack for any other reason."

Then, I'd like this rubric for pass/fail to be applied to the Iraq war, and tell me if that was a success/failure.  Recall we missed many objectives there, and the ones we did achieve often took 6 more years than intended.  Still, if OVERALL it can be a success with timeline of 1000% greater than expected, casualties or whatever cost many times greater than expected - but still a success right?  So I'll be using that same elasticity/forgiveness in grading the Stim bill.

See why it's tough?  Some ppl would say "Obama promised 5 mil jobs... we only got 4.99 mil jobs.... FAIL!!!"  In the same breath, they'll say "It took way more lives and $ and time and we only nailed a % of Iraq goals, but that's a WIN!"

Very inconsistent.

[240 is Back]

Zero.  Look at the UE rate. 

so if I can demonstrate ONE SINGLE job that has been created by the stim bill, admitted by a republican governor, your entire point here becomes invalid.

[Fury]

Okay.  So the Stim bill promised no change in UE, and an addition of X million jobs?

I'll happily declare it a failure, if someone can break down the actual numbers, stated and actual goals.  Then, give me the rubric for success, with some precedent.

For example - "Obama promised X million jobs.  He created Y millino jobs.  He missed W million jobs, a Z% clip.  We allow zero slack in the timeline.  We allow zero slack for any other reason."

Then, I'd like this rubric for pass/fail to be achieved to the Iraq war, and tell me if that was a success/failure.  Recall we missed many objectives there, and the ones we did achieve often took 6 more years than intended.  Still, if OVERALL it can be a success with timeline of 1000% greater than expected, casualties or whatever cost many times greater than expected - but still a success right?  So I'll be using that same elasticity/forgiveness in grading the Stim bill.

See why it's tough?  Some ppl would say "Obama promised 5 mil jobs... we only got 4.99 mil jobs.... FAIL!!!"  In the same breath, they'll say "It took way more lives and $ and time and we only nailed a % of Iraq goals, but that's a WIN!"

Very inconsistent.

You've got a bit of Obama in you. You're doing quite a good job trying to worm your way out of your blind support for this stim bill. There's no reason to get that technical about it (and you're only doing that to try to deflect from the massive failure that it's been). It can be assessed with one simple question, what was UE 18 months ago and what is it now? If it's the same then it has been a failure as the bill was marketed as a job creator that would bring the UE level down, not something that would keep it the same or make it worse.

What does Iraq have to do with the stim bill? Are you capable of discussing anything Obama does from a standalone position or are you so fucked in the head that you can't make a post on this board without mentioning Bush or Palin and something they've done?

[SAMSON123]

First off the article is so rife with LIES and DECEITS that its intent to show failure...FAILS.

Of the 787 Billion stimulus dollars remember that 350 Billion of it disappeared immediately and no one has found it to this day.

Collectively TRILLIONS of dollars have been handed out to bankers and businesses  as supposed bailouts and stimulus money, only for the US citizens to have been robbed of this tremendous un-repayable sum.

With 400,000+ thousand people applying for UE every week in america how can there have only been a loss of only a couple million jobs? These loss jobs will NOT come back and many entire companies have closed down reducing the chance of a new person getting a job or a seasoned worker being rehired.

Add to this the fact that the unemployment rate in america is NOT 9.7, but well over 20 to 25 percent.

Without the correct figures and truth being told about what is really going on, no financial analyst can type even a single word let alone give a forecast of what is, was or should/could be so far as america's economy goes.

[240 is Back]

You've got a bit of Obama in you. You're doing quite a good job trying to worm your way out of your blind support for this stim bill. There's no reason to get that technical about it (and you're only doing that to try to deflect from the massive failure that it's been). It can be assessed with one simple question, what was UE 18 months ago and what is it now? If it's the same then it has been a failure as the bill was marketed as a job creator that would bring the UE level down, not something that would keep it the same or make it worse.

What does Iraq have to do with the stim bill? Are you capable of discussing anything Obama does from a standalone position or are you so fucked in the head that you can't make a post on this board without mentioning Bush or Palin and something they've done?

Berz,

You have given no numbers.  No X, Y, Z, and W as I requested.  No rubric.  No measurements, no cutoff points for pass/fail.

I don't see how one could deliver an analysis of a huge complicated financial package without the use of numbers. 

Can anyone else present those numbers?  I'm ready to call it a fail - if the numbers show it to be a fail.

[GigantorX]

And let us not forget what the original claim was for what the Stimulus Bill was supposed to do. It was changed midway through.



And things have deteriorated since the last data point in May.

Stop playing semantical games. The thing was a total failure.

[240 is Back]

So the UE goal was the only rubric for success?

Aside from the absurdity of choosing to use it... let's use it.

He predicted it would bottom out at 9% (by your chart).
It bottomed out at what, 10%?

So he was off his total goal.  Despite all the unforeseen world events, yes, he said it would be 9% and it would be 10%.

He was off by 1% of total employment.  Or 10% of total unemployment volume, if you want to look at it that way.


So um, can anyone list any war, govt action, or other national objective that achieved 90% of their total goals?  iraq was supposed to take 6 months.... we're in year 7 or 8 now?  That's 2000% over what we were promised... definitely a failure.   Right?

[GigantorX]

So the UE goal was the only rubric for success?

Aside from the absurdity of choosing to use it... let's use it.

He predicted it would bottom out at 9% (by your chart).
It bottomed out at what, 10%?

So he was off his total goal.  Despite all the unforeseen world events, yes, he said it would be 9% and it would be 10%.

He was off by 1% of total employment.  Or 10% of total unemployment volume, if you want to look at it that way.


So um, can anyone list any war, govt action, or other national objective that achieved 90% of their total goals?  iraq was supposed to take 6 months.... we're in year 7 or 8 now?  That's 2000% over what we were promised... definitely a failure.   Right?

Don't use U.E. if you don't want to. Almost 1 trillion dollars of capital burned up for no gain. The economy isn't improving. The consumer credit contractions, bad Employment reports, bankruptcies, massive drops in housing including new home starts, collapsing tax revenues, bankrupt states and municipalities, contracting labor pool, decrease in consumer spending, poor manufacturing readings and still record amounts of jobless claims prove that point out.

What exactly has this changed? That's the fucking point. All that capital burned up for nothing....and what exactly was gained? Some made up "can't fail" metrics? Moved goal posts?

Really? That's all the ammo you and the Admin have?

Just....

[240 is Back]

Don't use U.E. if you don't want to. Almost 1 trillion dollars of capital burned up for no gain. The economy isn't improving. The consumer credit contractions, bad Employment reports, bankruptcies, massive drops in housing including new home starts, collapsing tax revenues, bankrupt states and municipalities, contracting labor pool, decrease in consumer spending, poor manufacturing readings and still record amounts of jobless claims prove that point out.

What exactly has this changed? That's the fucking point. All that capital burned up for nothing....and what exactly was gained? Some made up "can't fail" metrics? Moved goal posts?

Really? That's all the ammo you and the Admin have?

Just....

Was long-term sustainability of the US economy one of the stated goals?  If so, then yes, that objective was failed miserably.  Yes, long-term, we're fvcked from it, no doubt there.

So now I don't know what rubric we're using.
Using unemployment rate - he predicted 9% and it hit 10%... he's off by a little bit.

Does anyone have link to exact stated goals of the objective - with numbers?  I don't think getbiggers would just call a massive financial spending bill a failure without using any numbers to justify this decision - especially when these getbiggers believed Iraq was a WIN despite missing nearly every stated objective for success - by years, trillions, and thousands of lost lives.

[Soul Crusher]

240 - the promises were clear, Stim Bill had to pass or else UE would rise above 8%.  Now, AFTER the stim bill was passed we are at 10%. 

That equals fail no matter how you spin it. 

Watch this, maybe it makes a little more sense for you.