cool stuff
Dan: Well Colgan really calls it all the time, doesn't he? (laughs) Because he's always wrong - when Twinlabs changes their mind. Vanadyl sulfate is toxic but now that Twin is selling it, it's not toxic any more! But anyway, enough about Colgan. You know the thing is … I've never seen any real IGF-1. All the stuff I've seen pictures of and read about is the lab cell culture which is doctored not to bind on the carrier proteins. So it would probably be wonderful. You sent me a couple of reports and I read some others and if you look at the amounts they were using, it was quite high actually. Because of a four hour half-life they were using it twice a day, at a calculated dosage of 18mg a day. That's a very high amount. And these bodybuilders are taking 50 micrograms. And I find it hard to believe that 50 micrograms might do anything considering … God knows what they might have stacked on top of that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think IGF will be terrific once it gets cheap enough to use. And you really want it to bind on the carrier proteins. You want it to last for the 4 hours. The cell culture stuff has a half life of 20 minutes, you don't want that. It's as short as growth hormone … you have to use the high amounts. Eventually someone will offer it either out of Russia or Australia. Of course you know, there were some side effects such as jaw pain and weird funky stuff. And it does work well with GH synergistically. They're just the opposite of each other. IGF-1 would lower your blood sugar and GH does the opposite. Together it stabilizes it. So the worst thing you could do is to use IGF-1 and insulin at the same time, you would conk out. I think it has a lot of potential. The only problem with all that stuff … if you remember back to the geriatrics using GH, when they stopped using GH, within a few weeks all the benefits ceased. At least when you stop steroids, it takes a year or more for all those gains to completely disappear. And I'm afraid for the high expense of IGF-1, that when you go off it, I wonder how long it will last.
HM: Yeah, a couple people told us they used it, and they said how awesome it worked and they weren't using anything else.
Dan: Over the phone…?
HM: Yeah.
Dan: Oh, yeah you know how that goes - "I'm 190 and ripped" and you see them in real life and it's a fat piece of shit. (We are all laughing hard.) It's like on the Internet, everybody is big and strong and ripped - on the computer and you meet them in real life and they are little dorks!
HM: (Laughing) Hypothetically, if you were going to use IGF-1, would you use it with…?
Dan: Oh yeah, steroids, GH, you would want to use it all for a synergistic effect. But definitely with growth hormone, all the studies say it's not only additive … put it this way … if you could get a ½ pound gain from IGF-1, and a ½ pound gain from growth hormone - if you put them together you wouldn't get just one pound, you would get much more, they are synergistic with the two added together … so yeah, go for it.
HM: Anything on the amounts of growth hormone?
Dan: Frankly, I think, nobody has used enough growth hormone because of the cost. The only guy I know of, the rumors were that (top WBF guy) was using like 12 IU's of GH a day. Every day. I don't know if that's true but that is pretty close to what someone should be using, for best results I would think. In the PDR, it's pretty cut and dry in what you should be using. The Genetech is not as efficient as the Lilly. It's microgram per kilogram - you can figure it out. It seems that a lot of bodybuilders are going low in dosage. In the early 80's it was worse, the recommended dosage was 2 IU's a week at $90 bucks a pop - like 2 IU's would even do anything. And people were wondering why it didn't work…
HM: Yeah, you might as well pound down some arginine. (joke)
Dan: I know the stunted growth children were taking it 3 times a week, but I don't know why only 3 times a week. Why not every day? It seems logical to me that it should be everyday. It's just like IGF-1 is supposed to be twice a day. And GH is even shorter acting so who knows.
HM: Maybe 4 times a day might do some good??!!
Dan: Yeah.
