Pres. Signs H-Care Insurance Mandate-212 Years Ago!

[Skip8282]

No shit skip!  That's what we have been saying all along.  Obamacare mandates expensive and unaffordable insurance to young and middle class people who can't aFford the premiums or cost of this shit sandwich. 
 
They couyld have created a catsprohic plan, low premium, that covers stuff like that that would be highly affordable and accesible to most everyone. 

Instead, they created a rube goldberg monstrosity that will drive premiums through the roof and make things drastically worse.

Uh, don't think I've ever supported Obamacare, but there's certainly portions of it I like.  Elimination of duplicate programs/policies, getting rid of the pre-exisisting exclusions, clamping down on fraud in Medicaid/Medicare.

[Soul Crusher]

Obamacare is the largest unfunded mandate on the states itself as it shift millions to medicaid. Its a complete disaster and the bad far outweighs the good from a cost perspective. 

[tonymctones]

I think Lurker would be able to tell more about the programs, but I think EMTALA is an unfunded mandate - maybe used as a tax write-off, IDK.

But, if you're a "total bum", there is PHSA 330.  Probably won't cover a root canal, but will cover basic medical services and preventitive dental. 

Still, there's a lot of people who fall through the cracks - don't qualify for government and can't get it through employers, etc.  It would be nice to see a plan (not the monstrosity of Obamacare), that would help these people.  Just from a humanitarian aspect, the idea of the wealthiest country in the world not taking care of its own is kinda disturbing, IMO.

I agree...

also help drive down costs by creating more competition and helping to limit the exposure to law suits etc...

im not against ppl having affordable health care im against making ppl do something if they dont want to

[Straw Man]

well if seeing as the hospitals cant turn ppl away...what happens when those ppl dont pay???
are you going to explain how the govt is going to save money with the health care reform???

no, youre not...WHO FUCKING KNEW LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

try going to a hospital without health insurance for anything except a medical emergency and see how fast you're turned away

if people just "passed along the bill to the government" as you have said then we'd have socialized medicine in this country and there would be no need for any reform.

We'd all just have comprehensive health care from birth to death on the government dime

Is that how you think the system has been working all this time?

[tonymctones]

try going to a hospital without health insurance for anything except a medical emergency and see how fast you're turned away

if people just "passed along the bill to the government" as you have said then we'd have socialized medicine in this country and there would be no need for any reform.

We'd all just have comprehensive health care from birth to death on the government dime

Is that how you think the system has been working all this time?

LOL and how many ppl of those going to say ben taub here in houston do you think have health insurance?

how do you think the ppl that dont have health care get help in emergencies?

who do you think pays for that?

LOL you dont get to go to any docter at any time but guess what the hospitals cant turn you away in emergencies...

who pays for that straw?

are you going to tell us how this bill is going to save the govt money?

[Straw Man]

LOL and how many ppl of those going to say ben taub here in houston do you think have health insurance?

how do you think the ppl that dont have health care get help in emergencies?

who do you think pays for that?

LOL you dont get to go to any docter at any time but guess what the hospitals cant turn you away in emergencies...

who pays for that straw?

are you going to tell us how this bill is going to save the govt money?

so you think someone can walk into a hospital without insurance and demand cancer treatment or demand a surgery, or some other treatment and the hospital just provides it?........then after the fact the hospital just sends the bill to the government?

[tonymctones]

so you think someone can walk into a hospital without insurance and demand cancer treatment or demand a surgery, or some other treatment and the hospital just provides it?........then after the fact the hospital just sends the bill to the government?

a person who is in a hurt and needs immediate medical attention can...

you do know that dont you?

you do also know there are tax payer funded programs for ppl in your little scenario dont you?

[Straw Man]

a person who is in a hurt and needs immediate medical attention can...
you do know that dont you?

you do also know there are tax payer funded programs for ppl in your little scenario dont you?

I've already distinguished emergency medical care from ongoing care for chronic injury and illness

why can't you ever pay attention

now tell us how this mechanism of handing over the bill to the government works

Let's say I have cancer and need ongoing treatment or surgery, chemo, radiation, etc...

Do you think I can just show up at the hospital and demand treatment and the hospital will comply and then just send my bill of to the goverment for payment.  

How does that work?

[tonymctones]

I've already distinguished emergency medical care from ongoing care for chronic injury and illness

why can't you ever pay attention

now tell us how this mechanism of handing over the bill to the government works

Let's say I have cancer and need ongoing treatment or surgery, chemo, radiation, etc...

Do you think I can just show up at the hospital and demand treatment and the hospital will comply and then just send my bill of to the goverment for payment.  

How does that work?

well seeing as i originally was talking about emergencies, its you who cant pay attention brain child...

you can use govt funded programs that help ppl like that...

local example here in the houston area would be called a gold card...

dont be so stupid as to say that tax payer programs for ppl that dont have health insurance dont exist...

[Straw Man]

well seeing as i originally was talking about emergencies, its you who cant pay attention brain child...

you can use govt funded programs that help ppl like that...

local example here in the houston area would be called a gold card...

dont be so stupid as to say that tax payer programs for ppl that dont have health insurance dont exist...

no you didn't

when you introduced your moronic idea that if people can't pay it get's passed on the tax payer you never mentioned emergency care.

Go back and read my response and you'll see that as I was trying to unpack your absurd statement that I was the one who brought up emergency care

thats the way the system works now dumb ass...if ppl cant pay it gets passed on to the tax payer...THATS THE REASON FOR THE MANDATE YOU IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!if you force ppl to pay for their medical expenses if they CHOOSE to not carry health insurance...THEIR IS NO NEED FOR A MANDATE!!!!!!!!!!

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS???

When you've been bitching about "choice" I've been saying I'm fine giving you a one time choice to opt in our out.   If you opt out then you're on your own.  You can buy private insurance or pay all medical expenses out of pocket but you never get a chance to get back into the system.    This way you can't harm the system by trying to get back in once you're sick
[/quote
LMFAO, goodness gracious bro youre really retarded...

the system thats being set up is still private...youre still buying private insurance whether youre in the system or not...do you not understand that?

LOL goodness gracious

dude thats the reason behind health care reform...

its b/c of the cost of health care on the govt....

right now the bills of ppl that dont pay get passed on to the govt...thats why the govt wants to mandate everyone have insurance...so that they wont have to pay for those bills...

if you simply pass legislation that requires ppl to pay for their health care if they CHOOSE to not carry insurance...there is no need for a mandate...

how can that be the reason when it doesn't even make any sense

completely untrue

people without insurance dont' pass the bill to the governement

what they do instead is that they get no health care at all and they stay chronically sick or injured and eventually die earlier than they would have if they had health insurance

some people evenntually go to the emergency room so maybe that's what you're talking about but you don't get treatment for ongoing chronic conditions at the emergency room and you certainly don't get preventative care, exams, etc...   A


the mandate is a tiny part of the legiislation and it's necessary or the mechanism of insurance will cease to function because millions of people will choose to not pay for health insurance and once they become sick or injured, and unable to get private insurance then they will come with hat in hand to the public program.   It would be the same as not having auto insurance and then getting in a wreck and demanding access to a governemnt plan.  

Isn't the requireement of the mandate the lack of "choice" you've been bitching and moaning about?  

[tonymctones]

no you didn't

when you introduced your moronic idea that if people can't pay it get's passed on the tax payer you never mentioned emergency care.

Go back and read my response and you'll see that as I was trying to unpack your absurd statement that I was the one who brought up emergency care

LOL i never mentioned routine check ups or continuing medical procedures either brain child

[Straw Man]

LOL i never mentioned routine check ups or continuing medical procedures either brain child

I know

you never mentioned anything specific at all

you just made this blanket and demonstrably false statement:

right now the bills of ppl that dont pay get passed on to the govt...thats why the govt wants to mandate everyone have insurance...so that they wont have to pay for those bills....

I still have no clue what you're talking about in the next sentence

people without health insurance have no other choice except to pay their own expenses

wtf are you even talking about in this sentence?

the mandate is so they can't game the system by avoiding insurance until they are sick

after 5 pages you still seem utterly clueless about this

if you simply pass legislation that requires ppl to pay for their health care if they CHOOSE to not carry insurance...there is no need for a mandate...

[tonymctones]

I know

you never mentioned anything specific at all

you just made this blanket and demonstrably false statement:

I still have no clue what you're talking about in the next sentence

people without health insurance have no other choice except to pay their own expenses

wtf are you even talking about in this sentence?

the mandate is so they can't game the system by avoiding insurance until they are sick

after 5 pages you still seem utterly clueless about this

LOL they cant do that now...

you still havent said how this bill will help the deficit as obama has said it will...

[Soul Crusher]

Regardless of their justification straw - its still grossly overreaxhing constituionally.

[Straw Man]

LOL they cant do that now...

can't do what now?

I assume you mean they (people without insurance) can't have access to health care unless they pay for it out of their own pocket and they can't "pass the bill" on to the government

is that what you mean because if so, it would be contrary to what you've said in this entire thread

you still havent said how this bill will help the deficit as obama has said it will...

there are plenty of projections by the CBO on how it would reduce the deficit and also that repeal would increase the deficit

I'd post them but would you even bother to read them or even better would you even understand them?

i'm doubtful that you would understand them given the fact that you think people can just get whatever health care they want and pass the bill on to the government or that we need to pass a law requiring people without insurance to just pay their bills