Author Topic: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games  (Read 1885 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2010, 11:45:42 AM »
Beach... How's it feel to be a bleeding heart lib trying to protect society from itself?

 ::)

tu_holmes

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2010, 11:48:01 AM »
I knew that would be your answer.

Dos Equis

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2010, 11:50:27 AM »
I knew that would be your answer.

That's all a dumb question deserves.   :)

tu_holmes

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2010, 11:53:12 AM »
There's nothing dumb about it except your response... If you can show me how you're not trying to protect people from themselves and taking the power away from the parents to raise their children as they see fit, then I will aquiesce to your point and say nothing else about...

So far though, even your responses up to this point are still about taking the power to raise their kids away from the parents and putting on some other intrusive law.

That is a very liberal mind set... To deny it is just to lie.

Dos Equis

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2010, 12:01:35 PM »
There's nothing dumb about it except your response... If you can show me how you're not trying to protect people from themselves and taking the power away from the parents to raise their children as they see fit, then I will aquiesce to your point and say nothing else about...

So far though, even your responses up to this point are still about taking the power to raise their kids away from the parents and putting on some other intrusive law.

That is a very liberal mind set... To deny it is just to lie.

Let's get one thing straight:  I couldn't give a rat's behind whether you think it's liberal, conservative, etc., etc.  

Yes, you asked a stupid question.  You weren't asking for dialogue.  That's why you got the eye roll.  

This one is much better.   :)  I need to show you something?  Who the heck are you??

In any event, this isn't about "people."  It's about minors.  It doesn't interfere with parents' ability to raise their kids.  That's absurd.  If a parent wants to buy games, etc. for their kids they can do that.  This precludes kids from buying material.  As I said earlier, this isn't any different than numerous laws on the books that restrict the buying options of minors, including porn, etc.    

tu_holmes

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2010, 12:04:26 PM »
Crazy Libs.

MRDUMPLING

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2010, 12:41:43 PM »
What is a "government bowing necon"? 

I'm all for the private sector doing its job.  I also have no problem with a law like this that really isn't any different than the plethora of laws already on the books.  Would be completely different story in my view if it restricted what adults can and cannot purchase. 

You just usually tout the neocon line until it's about the kids. 

It's different because how harmful is a game to a kid?  Maybe a kid has their parents permission to go buy whatever they want?  Way too much government intrusion on California once again. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2010, 12:47:17 PM »
You just usually tout the neocon line until it's about the kids. 

It's different because how harmful is a game to a kid?  Maybe a kid has their parents permission to go buy whatever they want?  Way too much government intrusion on California once again. 

What?  You said I was going to do a "government bowing neocon when it comes to 'protecting the kids'."  What is a "government bowing necon"?  I'm asking because there have been several definitions used on the board.  I've never heard it used in this context. 

Yes it's different because it involves kids.  As I said, this doesn't prevent parents from buying whatever they want for their kids. 

BTW, I was at the movies the other day and some parents had kids who couldn't have been more than six or seven sitting in the front row watching Brooklyn's Finest.  I would never put a little kid in front of a movie like that, but that's the parent's business. 

I'd have a different opinion if this restricted adults.   

brooklynbruiser

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2010, 03:42:26 PM »
I love that Cali is chasing their industries OUT of the state with this junk. Cali has a deathwish. Did you see what I did there?
Almost always, yes.

Skip8282

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2010, 04:37:07 PM »
There's nothing dumb about it except your response...


Because he agrees on this issue, or perhaps even a couple of issues, makes him a bleeding heart lib?

Yeah, that makes sense...

MRDUMPLING

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2010, 07:23:25 AM »
What?  You said I was going to do a "government bowing neocon when it comes to 'protecting the kids'."  What is a "government bowing necon"?  I'm asking because there have been several definitions used on the board.  I've never heard it used in this context. 

Yes it's different because it involves kids.  As I said, this doesn't prevent parents from buying whatever they want for their kids. 

BTW, I was at the movies the other day and some parents had kids who couldn't have been more than six or seven sitting in the front row watching Brooklyn's Finest.  I would never put a little kid in front of a movie like that, but that's the parent's business. 

I'd have a different opinion if this restricted adults.   

Becaues you bow when you agree with something the government does and don't question it. 

To be honest you contradicted yourself in your own statement...It's okay when parents take their kids to a violent movie, but not okay if they allow them to play violent video games?  What if the child has the parents persmission is my point...this doesn't harm anyone and it isn't the government's role to raise people's kids is the point that everybody and myself is trying to make. 

BM OUT

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2010, 07:35:55 AM »
Government restrictions always work very well.Like the war on drugs,prohibition,kids cant smoke until they are 18,drinking age limits.Yes things definately get much better with the government setting rules.

Dos Equis

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2010, 12:13:16 PM »
Becaues you bow when you agree with something the government does and don't question it. 

To be honest you contradicted yourself in your own statement...It's okay when parents take their kids to a violent movie, but not okay if they allow them to play violent video games?  What if the child has the parents persmission is my point...this doesn't harm anyone and it isn't the government's role to raise people's kids is the point that everybody and myself is trying to make. 

O.K.  Got your definition of "government bowing neocon when it comes to 'protecting the kids'."  Different, but got it. 

I didn't contradict myself.  If parents want to expose their kids to certain things that I consider harmful, they have the right to do so.  Whether a business has the right to sell harmful things to kids is a different issue.  Yes the end result is the same if the parent chooses to purchase inappropriate things for their kids, but that's the parent's choice. 

I understand your point.  I simply disagree with your point.  I don't believe this kind of law amounts to raising people's kids.  It protects kids.  I really see no difference between this law and current law precluding the sale of porn to kids.  Or an age of consent for sex.  Or age restrictions regarding drugs and alcohol.     

MRDUMPLING

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2010, 02:41:16 PM »
O.K.  Got your definition of "government bowing neocon when it comes to 'protecting the kids'."  Different, but got it. 

I didn't contradict myself.  If parents want to expose their kids to certain things that I consider harmful, they have the right to do so.  Whether a business has the right to sell harmful things to kids is a different issue.  Yes the end result is the same if the parent chooses to purchase inappropriate things for their kids, but that's the parent's choice. 

I understand your point.  I simply disagree with your point.  I don't believe this kind of law amounts to raising people's kids.  It protects kids.  I really see no difference between this law and current law precluding the sale of porn to kids.  Or an age of consent for sex.  Or age restrictions regarding drugs and alcohol.     

I sincerely apologize for jumping down your throat.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2010, 02:55:27 PM »
I sincerely apologize for jumping down your throat.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. 

No worries.   :)

Dos Equis

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2011, 10:55:21 AM »
I'm with Breyer and Thomas on this one.

California ban on sale of 'violent' video games to children rejected
By Bill Mears, CNN Supreme Court Producer
June 27, 2011

Washington (CNN) -- The Supreme Court has struck down a California law that would have banned selling "violent" video games to children, a case balancing free speech rights with consumer protection.

The 7-2 ruling Monday is a victory for video game makers and sellers, who said the ban -- which had yet to go into effect -- would extend too far. They say the existing nationwide, industry-imposed, voluntary rating system is an adequate screen for parents to judge the appropriateness of computer game content.

The state says it has a legal obligation to protect children from graphic interactive images when the industry has failed to do so.

"As a means of assisting concerned parents it (the law) is seriously overinclusive because it abridges the First Amendment rights of young people whose parents (and aunts and uncles) think violent video games are a harmless pastime," wrote Justice Antonin Scalia for the majority.

In dissent, Justice Stephen Breyer framed the law's intent differently.
As a means of assisting concerned parents it (the law) is seriously overinclusive because it abridges the First Amendment rights of young people whose parents (and aunts and uncles) think violent video games are a harmless pastime.
--Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the majority

"The First Amendment does not disable government from helping parents make such a choice here -- a choice not to have their children buy extremely violent, interactive games," he wrote.

At issue is how far constitutional protections of free speech and expression, as well as due process, can be applied to youngsters. Critics of the content-based restrictions say the government would in effect be engaged in the censorship business, using "community standards" to evaluate artistic and commercial content.

A federal appeals court in San Francisco last year tossed out the law before it took effect, after then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed it in 2005. He had applauded the high court's decision to intervene. "We have a responsibility to our kids and our communities to protect against the effects of games that depict ultraviolent actions, just as we already do with movies," the governor said. The onetime actor made his name playing characters engaged in similarly violent acts in such movies as "Terminator."

The legislation was designed to strengthen the current industry-controlled rating system, and would have placed an outright ban on the sale or rental to those under 18 of games deemed excessively "violent." As defined by California, such interactive games are those in which the player is given the choice of "killing, maiming, dismembering or sexually assaulting an image of a human being" in offensive ways. It also defined such games as those that would "appeal to a deviant or morbid interest of children and are patently offensive to prevailing community standards."

Retailers would have faced up to $1,000 fine for violations. The law would also have required game makers and retailers to place an "18" label prominently on excessively violent games.

In an unusual coalition, Scalia's majority opinion had the support of Justices Anthony Kennedy, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and Sonia Sotomayor.

Scalia noted the court had never permitted government regulation of minors' "access to any forms of entertainment except on obscenity grounds."

He said the California law was one of many similar ones over the years, which he called "failed attempts." He cited movies, comic books, television, music lyrics, even Grimm's fairy tales and "Snow White," for their violent content.

But Justices Samuel Alito and Chief Justice John Roberts, while agreeing California went too far, nevertheless suggested a more narrowly tailored law might meet free-speech scrutiny.

"We should make every effort to understand the new technology" presented in these sophisticated video games, said Alito.
The First Amendment does not disable government from helping parents make such a choice here -- a choice not to have their children buy extremely violent, interactive games.
--Justice Stephen Breyer , in a dissent

Along with Breyer, Justice Clarence Thomas also dissented, saying the law's requirement of having parents purchase the games for their underage children was reasonable. "The freedom of speech as originally understood, does not include a right to speak to minors, without going through the minors' parents or guardians," he said.

The gaming industry sued in federal court and won an injunction halting enforcement of the law until the courts sorted out the constitutional questions. The game "Postal 2" was specifically cited by the state as potentially subject to the proposed statutory ban. The manufacturer, Running With Scissors, Inc., based in Tucson, Arizona, rates it as "M" for a mature audience only, with "blood and gore," "intense violence" and "sexual themes" as part of its content.

Other games listed by parent groups as being of concern are "Full Spectrum Warrior" and "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2," where players at one level can view terrorists slaughtering civilians at an airport.

The video game industry, as part of its appeal, sent several PlayStation video games to the justices to view, including "Medal of Honor" and "Resident Evil 4."

The game industry racks up $10.5 billion in yearly sales. The industry claims more than two-thirds of households have at least one member who plays video games.

The motion picture industry has its own self-monitoring ratings system, imposed decades ago after complaints that some films were too explicit for the general audience in what was seen and heard. The gaming industry says its ratings system roughly follows the same self-imposed guidelines, and ratings are clearly labeled on the packaging.

Similar complaints have been raised over the decades over children's exposure to pulp novels and comic books, in addition to pornography.

Efforts in at least eight other states to restrict gaming content have been rejected by various courts. Video game makers have the support of various free-speech, entertainment, and media organizations. Nine states also agree, noting California's law has good intentions but would compel law enforcement to become "culture critics" and "distract from the task of policing actual violence."

But 11 other states back California, saying they have enjoyed a traditional regulatory power over commerce aimed at protecting children, including such goods as alcohol and cigarettes.

The Supreme Court in recent years has thwarted repeated congressional attempts to protect children from internet pornography, saying legislation went too far in limiting adult access to lawful, but explicit, sexual content on the Web.

And the justices this spring threw out a federal law limiting the sale of graphic videos of animal cruelty.

The case is Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Assn. (08-1448).

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/27/scotus.video.games/index.html

Roger Bacon

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2011, 12:19:09 PM »
I'm with Breyer and Thomas on this one.

California ban on sale of 'violent' video games to children rejected
By Bill Mears, CNN Supreme Court Producer
June 27, 2011

Washington (CNN) -- The Supreme Court has struck down a California law that would have banned selling "violent" video games to children, a case balancing free speech rights with consumer protection.

The 7-2 ruling Monday is a victory for video game makers and sellers, who said the ban -- which had yet to go into effect -- would extend too far. They say the existing nationwide, industry-imposed, voluntary rating system is an adequate screen for parents to judge the appropriateness of computer game content.

The state says it has a legal obligation to protect children from graphic interactive images when the industry has failed to do so.

"As a means of assisting concerned parents it (the law) is seriously overinclusive because it abridges the First Amendment rights of young people whose parents (and aunts and uncles) think violent video games are a harmless pastime," wrote Justice Antonin Scalia for the majority.

In dissent, Justice Stephen Breyer framed the law's intent differently.
As a means of assisting concerned parents it (the law) is seriously overinclusive because it abridges the First Amendment rights of young people whose parents (and aunts and uncles) think violent video games are a harmless pastime.
--Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the majority

"The First Amendment does not disable government from helping parents make such a choice here -- a choice not to have their children buy extremely violent, interactive games," he wrote.

At issue is how far constitutional protections of free speech and expression, as well as due process, can be applied to youngsters. Critics of the content-based restrictions say the government would in effect be engaged in the censorship business, using "community standards" to evaluate artistic and commercial content.

A federal appeals court in San Francisco last year tossed out the law before it took effect, after then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed it in 2005. He had applauded the high court's decision to intervene. "We have a responsibility to our kids and our communities to protect against the effects of games that depict ultraviolent actions, just as we already do with movies," the governor said. The onetime actor made his name playing characters engaged in similarly violent acts in such movies as "Terminator."

The legislation was designed to strengthen the current industry-controlled rating system, and would have placed an outright ban on the sale or rental to those under 18 of games deemed excessively "violent." As defined by California, such interactive games are those in which the player is given the choice of "killing, maiming, dismembering or sexually assaulting an image of a human being" in offensive ways. It also defined such games as those that would "appeal to a deviant or morbid interest of children and are patently offensive to prevailing community standards."

Retailers would have faced up to $1,000 fine for violations. The law would also have required game makers and retailers to place an "18" label prominently on excessively violent games.

In an unusual coalition, Scalia's majority opinion had the support of Justices Anthony Kennedy, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and Sonia Sotomayor.

Scalia noted the court had never permitted government regulation of minors' "access to any forms of entertainment except on obscenity grounds."

He said the California law was one of many similar ones over the years, which he called "failed attempts." He cited movies, comic books, television, music lyrics, even Grimm's fairy tales and "Snow White," for their violent content.

But Justices Samuel Alito and Chief Justice John Roberts, while agreeing California went too far, nevertheless suggested a more narrowly tailored law might meet free-speech scrutiny.

"We should make every effort to understand the new technology" presented in these sophisticated video games, said Alito.
The First Amendment does not disable government from helping parents make such a choice here -- a choice not to have their children buy extremely violent, interactive games.
--Justice Stephen Breyer , in a dissent

Along with Breyer, Justice Clarence Thomas also dissented, saying the law's requirement of having parents purchase the games for their underage children was reasonable. "The freedom of speech as originally understood, does not include a right to speak to minors, without going through the minors' parents or guardians," he said.

The gaming industry sued in federal court and won an injunction halting enforcement of the law until the courts sorted out the constitutional questions. The game "Postal 2" was specifically cited by the state as potentially subject to the proposed statutory ban. The manufacturer, Running With Scissors, Inc., based in Tucson, Arizona, rates it as "M" for a mature audience only, with "blood and gore," "intense violence" and "sexual themes" as part of its content.

Other games listed by parent groups as being of concern are "Full Spectrum Warrior" and "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2," where players at one level can view terrorists slaughtering civilians at an airport.

The video game industry, as part of its appeal, sent several PlayStation video games to the justices to view, including "Medal of Honor" and "Resident Evil 4."

The game industry racks up $10.5 billion in yearly sales. The industry claims more than two-thirds of households have at least one member who plays video games.

The motion picture industry has its own self-monitoring ratings system, imposed decades ago after complaints that some films were too explicit for the general audience in what was seen and heard. The gaming industry says its ratings system roughly follows the same self-imposed guidelines, and ratings are clearly labeled on the packaging.

Similar complaints have been raised over the decades over children's exposure to pulp novels and comic books, in addition to pornography.

Efforts in at least eight other states to restrict gaming content have been rejected by various courts. Video game makers have the support of various free-speech, entertainment, and media organizations. Nine states also agree, noting California's law has good intentions but would compel law enforcement to become "culture critics" and "distract from the task of policing actual violence."

But 11 other states back California, saying they have enjoyed a traditional regulatory power over commerce aimed at protecting children, including such goods as alcohol and cigarettes.

The Supreme Court in recent years has thwarted repeated congressional attempts to protect children from internet pornography, saying legislation went too far in limiting adult access to lawful, but explicit, sexual content on the Web.

And the justices this spring threw out a federal law limiting the sale of graphic videos of animal cruelty.

The case is Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Assn. (08-1448).

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/27/scotus.video.games/index.html

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tu_holmes

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Re: Supreme Court to decide if California can regulate video games
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2011, 07:59:24 PM »
Thank goodness the VAST majority of justices realize how fascist this was.

Too bad others don't seem to get it.