Speed of light no longer the ultimate speed barrier?

[Xerxes]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern
By Jason Palmer
Science and technology reporter, BBC News

The neutrinos are fired deep under the Italian Alps at Gran Sasso

Puzzling results from Cern, home of the LHC, have confounded physicists - because it appears subatomic particles have exceeded the speed of light.

Neutrinos sent through the ground from Cern toward the Gran Sasso laboratory 732km away seemed to show up a tiny fraction of a second early.

The result - which threatens to upend a century of physics - will be put online for scrutiny by other scientists.

In the meantime, the group says it is being very cautious about its claims.

"We tried to find all possible explanations for this," said report author Antonio Ereditato of the Opera collaboration.

"We wanted to find a mistake - trivial mistakes, more complicated mistakes, or nasty effects - and we didn't," he told BBC News.

"When you don't find anything, then you say 'Well, now I'm forced to go out and ask the community to scrutinise this.'"

Caught speeding?
The speed of light is the Universe's ultimate speed limit, and much of modern physics - as laid out in part by Albert Einstein in his special theory of relativity - depends on the idea that nothing can exceed it.

Thousands of experiments have been undertaken to measure it ever more precisely, and no result has ever spotted a particle breaking the limit.

But Dr Ereditato and his colleagues have been carrying out an experiment for the last three years that seems to suggest neutrinos have done just that.

Neutrinos come in a number of types, and have recently been seen to switch spontaneously from one type to another.

The team prepares a beam of just one type, muon neutrinos, sending them from Cern to an underground laboratory at Gran Sasso in Italy to see how many show up as a different type, tau neutrinos.

In the course of doing the experiments, the researchers noticed that the particles showed up a few billionths of a second sooner than light would over the same distance.

The team measured the travel times of neutrino bunches some 15,000 times, and have reached a level of statistical significance that in scientific circles would count as a formal discovery.

But the group understands that what are known as "systematic errors" could easily make an erroneous result look like a breaking of the ultimate speed limit, and that has motivated them to publish their measurements.

"My dream would be that another, independent experiment finds the same thing - then I would be relieved," Dr Ereditato said.

But for now, he explained, "we are not claiming things, we want just to be helped by the community in understanding our crazy result - because it is crazy".

"And of course the consequences can be very serious."

What does this mean, any geniuses want to explain (Suckmymuscle, tbombz,all other getbig Mensa members)

[tbombz]

it means  people who think science can come up with a definitive answer to questions about the true nature of the universe are stupid

[Xerxes]

it means  people who think science can come up with a definitive answer to questions about the true nature of the universe are stupid

I also enjoyed your wisdom about God. Maybe Che can post the qoute up again soon, timeless wisdom.

[tbombz]

I also enjoyed your wisdom about God. Maybe Che can post the qoute up again soon, timeless wisdom.

im not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you have come to a realization that has allowed you to appreciate my thoughts on the subject. in either case i would admit at times i spoke with too much confidence on matters i could only guess at; though i sill stand by my ideas i do now view agnosticism as the more intelligent position when compared with theism.

[Xerxes]

im not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you have come to a realization that has allowed you to appreciate my thoughts on the subject. in either case i would admit at times i spoke with too much confidence on matters i could only guess at; though i sill stand by my ideas i do now view agnosticism as the more intelligent position when compared with theism.

It was sarcastic, the way you said god was bored and lonely and then created himself or some shit like that, was pretty epic

anyway good to see you've come to your senses (bolded)

[bradistani]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484


What does this mean, any geniuses want to explain (Suckmymuscle, tbombz,all other getbig Mensa members)

the speed of light is almost as slow as this thread being made 

[che]

I also enjoyed your wisdom about God. Maybe Che can post the qoute up again soon, timeless wisdom.

 

''Maybe God didnt always exist. I actually think that he created himself. which implies that there was a period of non-existence, and then god created himself... got lonely, and created existence.''

                                                                                            TBOMBZ

[tbombz]

It was sarcastic, the way you said god was bored and lonely and then created himself or some shit like that, was pretty epic

anyway good to see you've come to your senses (bolded)

were not meant to know.. or else we would. thats how i see it. but we can use logic to come to certain conclusions.



yea i think god created himself and then created this world so that he could enjoy the company of others, but only after they have grown to understand their inferiority and thus come to appreciate his infinite wisdom. which is why this world is full of inequality, evil, suffering, etc.  it sounds egotistical but its for our good, not his.

[Xerxes]

''Maybe God didnt always exist. I actually think that he created himself. which implies that there was a period of non-existence, and then god created himself... got lonely, and created existence.''

                                                                                            TBOMBZ

lol 

were not meant to know.. or else we would. thats how i see it. but we can use logic to come to certain conclusions.



yea i think god created himself and then created this world so that he could enjoy the company of others, but only after they have grown to understand their inferiority and thus come to appreciate his infinite wisdom. which is why this world is full of inequality, evil, suffering, etc.  it sounds egotistical but its for our good, not his.

Lets not make this another theist-atheist bashing fest, there is another thread on the speed of light, let this one die (I didn't see the other one)

[doriancutlerman]

You asked for resident MENSA members' input, though I figured you might be a bit sarcastic

I passed MENSA's tests but I thought they were a bunch of self-important gits, so I never accepted a membership.  Intelligence is extremely important to me, but when it becomes discriminatory (e.g., "Ohh, you're *only* 135.  Sor-rrrry -- close but no cigar!"), I have a problem with that "organization."  One of my best friends is supposedly possessed of a 120 IQ, but if you knew the fucker, you'd at least guess he was 145-150.  And in effect, his thoughts warrant a very high IQ.  Methinks the tests aren't entirely accurate.

Besides, that bullshit aside ...

Honestly, as a pragmatist, I don't give a shit.  Anything involving practical FTL drives will be long after I die, and that's assuming warp/hyperspace/whatever Stargate had will ever be possible.  

Don't get me wrong:  I'd truly LOVE it if we had an FTL drive that could explore nearby star systems before I'm pushing up daises, but I don't see it happening.  As I understand it, the best way to "cheat" c is to wield sufficiently powerful lasers or particle beams that one can manipulate the fabric of space-time.  

Oh, that's simple, right?  Powerful lasers converging on a tight point of space.  Then we can wormhole our asses straight to the Delta Quadrant :lol: :\

Well, a pal of mine, an astrophysicist who penned a couple of the coffee table Star Wars cross-section books, speculates that powerful enough lasers converging on a small unit of space might warp the underlying fabric (my words.  I'm an editor, not a scientist).  

Then again, these lasers or whatever are so impossibly fucking powerful as to defy belief.  According to my friend Mike Wong, when the Death Star blew up Alderaan, it expended about 1E38J.  In reality, even THAT blast wouldn't be sufficient to do what some astrophysicists have speculated about.

That puts things into perspective.  The Death Star was built by a civilization that's galactic in scale.  Millions of member systems and potentially 100 times that in actual worlds.  

That is probably too much for any of us to properly comprehend, so consider the resources of our own solar system.  If you look at all of the worlds, asteroids and minor planets, the resource base is truly staggering.  There's so much water, iron, helium and hydrogen that, even without touching Sol, if we could harness all of that shit ...

Again, it's mind-boggling.  

[Xerxes]

You asked for resident MENSA members' input, though I figured you might be a bit sarcastic

I passed MENSA's tests but I thought they were a bunch of self-important gits, so I never accepted a membership.  Intelligence is extremely important to me, but when it becomes discriminatory (e.g., "Ohh, you're *only* 135.  Sor-rrrry -- close but no cigar!"), I have a problem with that "organization."  One of my best friends is supposedly possessed of a 120 IQ, but if you knew the fucker, you'd at least guess he was 145-150.  And in effect, his thoughts warrant a very high IQ.  Methinks the tests aren't entirely accurate.

Besides, that bullshit aside ...

Honestly, as a pragmatist, I don't give a shit.  Anything involving practical FTL drives will be long after I die, and that's assuming warp/hyperspace/whatever Stargate had will ever be possible.  

Don't get me wrong:  I'd truly LOVE it if we had an FTL drive that could explore nearby star systems before I'm pushing up daises, but I don't see it happening.  As I understand it, the best way to "cheat" c is to wield sufficiently powerful lasers or particle beams that one can manipulate the fabric of space-time.  

Oh, that's simple, right?  Powerful lasers converging on a tight point of space.  Then we can wormhole our asses straight to the Delta Quadrant :lol: :\

Well, a pal of mine, an astrophysicist who penned a couple of the coffee table Star Wars cross-section books, speculates that powerful enough lasers converging on a small unit of space might warp the underlying fabric (my words.  I'm an editor, not a scientist).  

Then again, these lasers or whatever are so impossibly fucking powerful as to defy belief.  According to my friend Mike Wong, when the Death Star blew up Alderaan, it expended about 1E38J.  In reality, even THAT blast wouldn't be sufficient to do what some astrophysicists have speculated about.

That puts things into perspective.  The Death Star was built by a civilization that's galactic in scale.  Millions of member systems and potentially 100 times that in actual worlds.  

That is probably too much for any of us to properly comprehend, so consider the resources of our own solar system.  If you look at all of the worlds, asteroids and minor planets, the resource base is truly staggering.  There's so much water, iron, helium and hydrogen that, even without touching Sol, if we could harness all of that shit ...

Again, it's mind-boggling.  

So basically, you don't care cause it won't matter in this lifetime and then you went on about how you wish real life was like star-wars.. Epic geek  

JK man, thanks for your answer

[sync pulse]

Well, the measurement has yet to be replicated at another lab;

What it means (if confirmed) that Relativity will become a "subset" in a larger phenomena,...similar to the way Newtonian Mechanics are a subset of relativity.


So advanced degrees are not as useless as some wags here have maintained...

[Roger Bacon]

''Maybe God didnt always exist. I actually think that he created himself. which implies that there was a period of non-existence, and then god created himself... got lonely, and created existence.''

                                                                                            TBOMBZ

I need to make this my sig line!!

Fucking brilliant!!! 

[HTexan]

sweet. vacation on planet HD 85512b is right around the corner.

[Mr Nobody]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484


What does this mean, any geniuses want to explain (Suckmymuscle, tbombz,all other getbig Mensa members)

Could be , I think it has been overcome by the speed it takes Basile to post in a thread that Goodrum started.

[Hugo Chavez]

so the difference is just 60 nanoseconds faster?  couldn't just a slight change in equipment temp account for a distance change that small?