How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?

[The Grim Lifter]

GH15 is full of shit telling you to "train naturally". You can't build shit naturally, he knows and agrees, but as usual contradicts himself like a fucking retard. Have you seen the TRUE natural limit he says people can reach? And you want to spend 3 years building that? hahahahahahahaha.

Just don't waste time. I guess put in 3-4 weeks, learn the ropes a bit, and then get busy with some quality HG gear, and a shit load of food. Stop fucking around. The clever ones start early while the rest just look like shit and complain.

And LOL @ PCT, fuck outta here. This is easily the biggest scam in bodybuilding. You think You can make steroid gains, get lean as fuck on steroids, and then come off and keep any real physique? You think that if you start off squatting 225 1rm, gain several lbs of muscle and up it to 315-365 for a bunch, you can come off and live happily ever after?

Look, your genetics are shit. And the earlier you just start getting serious about bbing the better. Acquire the necessary anabolics and get your shit together kid.

OP ignore this dumbshit.

You can make great gains clean for a few years. Why waste cycles getting to a point which you can do clean and then capitalise on with anabolics.

Secondly, you can keep the mass off gear. Maybe not the level gh15 hit, but you can keep a hell of a lot and the above post is written by someone who hasn't done it. Until you juice and clean out while training and eating correctly you have no idea.

[gh15]

Correction: You are always wrong. 145 at 12% 5'10 is clinically underweight. 30lbs lol... what you consider a natural physique is not worth 2 fucking years training for. You already know, all naturals look like shit. This is the result of natural bbing being a waste of time. You have said this forever, so gtfo, and stop back pedalling. This fucker SHOULD start gearing up in a couple months at most, and you KNOW it. Stop dancing around the issue....

not true,, you just goign to fuck him up he will fuck himself up at this weight not because hormoens are bad ofr you ..they are good! but because he is not ready ,, his bones are not ready for this,, he is fragile i keep telling you this ,, do whatever i put out my recomendation ,,he need more thickness on him and it can easily be achieved he can put those 20-25 lb in a year ,, he is also 19....nothign will happen if he start at 20-21 this is early enough

gh15 approved

[Hulkotron]

Whose gimmick is this Cutlet character?

[asbrus]

Exactly.

Y0U ARE A FUCKING IDI0T.

[growing1221]

you shudl pretty easily be 210-220lb naturaly at 12-14% ,,get there first

then on hormones you will really look impressive and fresakish

gh15 approved

im confused gh. i thought we wanted to be single digit bf before starting hormones? Im sitting at 210lbs 6'2'' at 12-14%bf, i was going to cut to single digit bf then start cycle, or should i just start now?

[JFree92]

not true,, you just goign to fuck him up he will fuck himself up at this weight not because hormoens are bad ofr you ..they are good! but because he is not ready ,, his bones are not ready for this,, he is fragile i keep telling you this ,, do whatever i put out my recomendation ,,he need more thickness on him and it can easily be achieved he can put those 20-25 lb in a year ,, he is also 19....nothign will happen if he start at 20-21 this is early enough

gh15 approved

This makes sense to me. I'm gonna put another year in and see what happens.

[gh15]

im confused gh. i thought we wanted to be single digit bf before starting hormones? Im sitting at 210lbs 6'2'' at 12-14%bf, i was going to cut to single digit bf then start cycle, or should i just start now?

his case is diff he is 6'4 185 lb ....comon fellas ,, this is someone who need more natural time,, to bring up everything to some kind of foundation before going on hotmones,, he may be 205-210 and 9-10% bodyfat when all said and doen naturaly ,, he is 6'4 this is very tall

then he can start hormones

gh15 approved

[wes]

No raw beginner should even use D-Bol.............they don`t even have a clue how to train.

This kid doesn`t look as if he could do 10 full squats with 95 pounds....no offense to him at all,but at his stage,or should I say "non-stage" he needs to eat like a horse,do basic big exercises,and train 4 X a week.

Anyone telling him to use immediately is just a perfect example of generation nothinngness personified.

Use a ton of shit if you want,but not when you have no training experience and are a buck 50 at 6'4".

[whitewidow]

not true,, you just goign to fuck him up he will fuck himself up at this weight not because hormoens are bad ofr you ..they are good! but because he is not ready ,, his bones are not ready for this,, he is fragile i keep telling you this ,, do whatever i put out my recomendation ,,he need more thickness on him and it can easily be achieved he can put those 20-25 lb in a year ,, he is also 19....nothign will happen if he start at 20-21 this is early enough

gh15 approved

this kid isnt ready for creatine! this thread is intended to be a joke leave it alone. someone is laughing at everybody answering this stupid thread nobody who looks like that would possibly think of using gear yet! they would seriously be retarded! they dont even look like they train with heavy weights are even light weights. maybe a soccer player. If it is for real train natural and eat about 7,000 calories daily along with 2 grams of protein per pound and start using some vitargo and tribex along with daily training. maybe even hire a trainer if you are serious about getting bigger. no shame in getting a trainer as long as they are a serious BB trainer.

[wes]

I'm not a complete noob in the gym. Over my year of training I believe like I have learned alot. I can squat 240lbs for a few reps at my max and can DB press 100lbs for 5. But the whole time I've been cutting as I say and is very hard for me to gain muscle/strength with a lack of calories

Cutting what 

[JFree92]

Fat, I used to weigh 240lbs

[whitewidow]

I'm not stupid and I know how to train.

there is a diffrence between lifting weights and training like a bodybuilder!It takes more than a year to learn how to train like a bodybuilder. personally I think this thread is a joke. I never said you were stupid but at your age it wouldnt hurt to hire a trainer. not one of those shitty bally fitness trainers or 24hr fitness trainers as 90% of them do not train like a bodybuilder and are just fit. those gyms do not like hiring big bodybuilder type looking guys they rather hire somebody who has a pretty boy beach body look. but there are some hardcore gyms and trainers you could hire to help you out. there is no shame in getting a trainer if they know how to train like a bodybuilder they are good to help you get through workouts. get someone serious and get very serious yourself start reading about fast and slow twitch muscles learn how your body reacts to diffrent training routines. Trust me you are years away from androgenic anabolic steroid use. before you use steroids you need to get your training and diet 110% at 19 yrs old you have years to still gain naturally. you also need to study nutrition as that is a very important part of bodybuilding. you need to be eating 6,000 calories a day! and make sure it is mainly good foods at least 2 grams of protein per pound. If you work it is very hard to eat like this hopefully you still live at home and can take advantage of eating off of your parents dime. because when you move out it gets very expensive to eat like this trust me I was a year older then you when I moved out and I realized I was spedning 15$-20$ a day just on myself thats around 600$ a month just on food so take advantage of living at home if you still do. I remeber those days when I was young 20 yrs old and it was hard paying rent and paying that much for food I had to eat more protein shakes for awhile till I was able to save up more money. I would say your at least 4 years away from using anabolic steroids you can still make alot of natural gains at your age. a 19yr old has a very high natural testosterone level as long as you stay away from drugs and smoking,drinking. you can still put alot of muscle on your frame naturally dont even thin about taking steroids for about 4 years trust me you want to wait till you are 110% completely done growing you might think you are but you are not. if you train harder and learn how to train like a bodybuilder, eat right(6-8) meals a day(around 6,000 calories a day) flex your muscles alot sounds stupid but it will help. constantly flex your muscles when you are just sitting at home and have nothing to do. I would say you could put on cose to 15-25 pounds on your physique naturally or maybe with a little help from some OTC supplements. Vitargo cgl is a good product, a good tribulus product and a multi vitamin do not mess with prohormones as AAS is probably safer and cheaper. I waited till I was 24 close to 25 before I did my first cycle and I am glad I did because even at 23 years old I stuck a great diet and ate alot of good foods and gained 8 pounds of muscle naturally then when I hit mid 24 I did a turinabol only cyccle and got 18 pounds after just the 3rd week. I only used it for 5-6 weeks but I put on 21 pound but once I got rid of the water and a tad of fat I yielded 12 pounds of pure lean muscle. then i got into Test and pretty much everything. my first year on gear I took alot of steroids. I was just so interested in what kind of effect i would get and to tell you the truth i was dissapointed with alot of steroids as they sounded way better than they actually were they still worked but I didnt get a whole lot stronger some lifts I got about a 20% increase but some I did not. more like 15% increase. so I learned very quickly steroids were not magic. no matter what I always got size but strength wise do not expect a miracle. maybe a 20% increase in some of your lifts.

[BOUNCER DAVE]

"I'm not stupid and I know how to train."


It does not show.

[Fitness4Life]

I'm not stupid and I know how to train.

I see your type everyday at the gym, do what everyone is telling you, train hard, get the diet right, do some intense groundwork for 1 year to 2.  You have to do this, want to take stuff?  Get your protein powder, make sure your protein mostly comes from food, and get a decent preworkout.

[wes]

I see your type everyday at the gym, do what everyone is telling you, train hard, get the diet right, do some intense groundwork for 1 year to 2.  You have to do this, want to take stuff?  Get your protein powder, make sure your protein mostly comes from food, and get a decent preworkout.

Great advice!!

Follow this or just fuck off.

End of gimmicks thread!!

[whitewidow]

OK I see more what you're getting at now. I already do alot of that stuff and have to spend most of my money on food (I'm a student now.) I've given up drinking and I have never smoked. I sacrifice alot of things in my student life to do this. I spend most of my nights learning about different training methods and nutrition and I'm aware of things such as slow twitch muscle fibres and how best to activate them with your training. I count all my calories and plan my diet every week before I buy the food. Although I look alot worse than any average gym rat I honestly believe I know alot more than all of them, but I just haven't had the time to start bulking yet and put it all into practice. The thing I don't do which you mentioned is eat 6k cal per day. I just don't see how I could get away with that. I eat 2500 atm and feel like I'm scared to eat any more due to putting on fat. The fat I hold on my back which is visible in my pic is really irritating to me.
[/quote

I got the calories by eating homemade protein shakes and eating at fastfood joints. no fries but what i do is go to carls jr. or burgerking a place where they flame broil the meat and get a flame broiled chicken sandwich completely plain and I toss the top part of the bun and kind of fold it and eat just the patty and the lower bun I also buy a burger and do the same thing I order it plain and only eat the burger patty and half the bun. make sure its a patty that is flame broiled and not deep fried. this is a good way to get protein and calories. and it is inexpensive. I also make my own shake I buy some cytosport protein powder usually chocolate and I add granola some flax seed, some peanut butter, a scoop of ice cream and some nancys plain yogurt. It actually taste great and are very easy to eat they taste good and this will get you more protein and calories in you and fairly clean protein,carbs and fats. only thing that is somewhat bad is the ice cream and the peanut butter but they are both great foods to gain weight on the plain yogurt and granola are very good for you. I usually eat one of these pre and post workout. I said 2 grams of protein a pound but 1.5 grams of protein is enough. if you do go on cycle later on in life eat 2 grams of protein per pounds. I know how it is being stuck at a certain weight and you just cannot seem to break through that weight but it will eventually happen just stay patient and keep training hard and eating right. Now when I talked about going to carls jr. or  burgerking that is only because they flame broil their meat and offer a all white meat chicken breast wich are actually very good just order them plain no sauces no toppings only HALF of the bun. just fold that bitch in half and eat it get two sandwiches one chicken breast and one hamburger. or you can just eat the pattys. I prefer at least eating the bottom bun. I also use about a packet of salt on each sandwich. salt makes me more vascular and that is why I do that plus it adds my craving for water. fast food joints are fine as long as you go to one that flame broils their burgers never get anything fried or deep fried. eventually you will gain weight. but you have to be patient and get used to eating alot wich does take time believe me I wanted to start using steroids way before I started at 24 but I did get 8 pounds naturally between the age of 21 and 24. when I was 19 to 21 I got about 10-15 pounds naturally. the worst is when you get 21 then you really think your done growing naturally but believe me just wait till mid 20's. you will have a great foundation at that age and will be done growing naturally.then hit the juice and you wont have joint problems and will gain better because you will be stronger and used to eating the needed foods.

[JFree92]

What did you do regarding the problem of fat whilst bulking for so long.

[Borracho]

there is a diffrence between lifting weights and training like a bodybuilder!It takes more than a year to learn how to train like a bodybuilder. personally I think this thread is a joke. I never said you were stupid but at your age it wouldnt hurt to hire a trainer. not one of those shitty bally fitness trainers or 24hr fitness trainers as 90% of them do not train like a bodybuilder and are just fit. those gyms do not like hiring big bodybuilder type looking guys they rather hire somebody who has a pretty boy beach body look. but there are some hardcore gyms and trainers you could hire to help you out. there is no shame in getting a trainer if they know how to train like a bodybuilder they are good to help you get through workouts. get someone serious and get very serious yourself start reading about fast and slow twitch muscles learn how your body reacts to diffrent training routines. Trust me you are years away from androgenic anabolic steroid use. before you use steroids you need to get your training and diet 110% at 19 yrs old you have years to still gain naturally. you also need to study nutrition as that is a very important part of bodybuilding. you need to be eating 6,000 calories a day! and make sure it is mainly good foods at least 2 grams of protein per pound. If you work it is very hard to eat like this hopefully you still live at home and can take advantage of eating off of your parents dime. because when you move out it gets very expensive to eat like this trust me I was a year older then you when I moved out and I realized I was spedning 15$-20$ a day just on myself thats around 600$ a month just on food so take advantage of living at home if you still do. I remeber those days when I was young 20 yrs old and it was hard paying rent and paying that much for food I had to eat more protein shakes for awhile till I was able to save up more money. I would say your at least 4 years away from using anabolic steroids you can still make alot of natural gains at your age. a 19yr old has a very high natural testosterone level as long as you stay away from drugs and smoking,drinking. you can still put alot of muscle on your frame naturally dont even thin about taking steroids for about 4 years trust me you want to wait till you are 110% completely done growing you might think you are but you are not. if you train harder and learn how to train like a bodybuilder, eat right(6-8) meals a day(around 6,000 calories a day) flex your muscles alot sounds stupid but it will help. constantly flex your muscles when you are just sitting at home and have nothing to do. I would say you could put on cose to 15-25 pounds on your physique naturally or maybe with a little help from some OTC supplements. Vitargo cgl is a good product, a good tribulus product and a multi vitamin do not mess with prohormones as AAS is probably safer and cheaper. I waited till I was 24 close to 25 before I did my first cycle and I am glad I did because even at 23 years old I stuck a great diet and ate alot of good foods and gained 8 pounds of muscle naturally then when I hit mid 24 I did a turinabol only cyccle and got 18 pounds after just the 3rd week. I only used it for 5-6 weeks but I put on 21 pound but once I got rid of the water and a tad of fat I yielded 12 pounds of pure lean muscle. then i got into Test and pretty much everything. my first year on gear I took alot of steroids. I was just so interested in what kind of effect i would get and to tell you the truth i was dissapointed with alot of steroids as they sounded way better than they actually were they still worked but I didnt get a whole lot stronger some lifts I got about a 20% increase but some I did not. more like 15% increase. so I learned very quickly steroids were not magic. no matter what I always got size but strength wise do not expect a miracle. maybe a 20% increase in some of your lifts.

This stuff hurts my eyes....can you please start writing in paragraphs. I'm sure I'm not the only one that just skips over your posts.

[JFree92]

OK I'll just let you guys know that I'm going to bulk up until the end of 2012 then post my progress on here if you'd be interested.

[wes]

OK I'll just let you guys know that I'm going to bulk up until the end of 2012 then post my progress on here if you'd be interested.

Only took you 8 pages.

[nosleep]

DUDE...THAT KID SHOULD JUST GET ON A STRENGTH PROGRAM LIKE BIG BEYOND BELIEF, EAT FOR HIS APPETITE...ONCE HE GETS THAT STRENGTH FOUNDATION, UNDERSTANDS WHAT FOODS HE EATS..MAYBE A YEAR, YEAR-HALF IDK..WHATEVER IT IS...THEN JUMP IN THE ALLL-YOU CAN EAT HORMONA BUFFET.

 

[JFree92]

Strength program eh..why not train mainly for hypertrophy instead of strength?

[jaejonna]

hahahah I can't believe you guy's think this 'tit' is being real. ..haha Generation nothigness always looking for a short cut.

[goomba420]

hahahah I can't believe you guy's think this 'tit' is being real. ..haha Generation nothigness always looking for a short cut.

why the fuck not? people use shortcuts all the time. sorry if this individual doesnt want to devote 2-3 years of his life doing nothing but eating chicken and rice every two hours