Author Topic: FED TO THE RESCUE  (Read 3562 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2011, 08:01:36 PM »

aesthetics

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2011, 08:03:17 PM »
sorry if my spelling sucks - iPad is a bitch.    The Fed is monetizing debt.   It exists to by up bonds and assets and debts the govt accumulates that are not met by tax revenue.  

it's a horrible relationship that screws savers.   Do you realize that since the Fed was created in 1913 that the value of the dollar has decreased by about 95 percent ?   Why is that?  

the value of the dollar is relative though, i'm sure since you've read economics books, specifically austrian economics, it's dealt a lot with inflation and they probably mentioned the difference between nominal and real value of currency a billion times throughout the book. inflation itself is inherently necessary, 3% compounded growth is necessary to keep the economy from going stagnant, which is fine for the interim (as compound growth is unsustainable and will lead to an inevitable crisis in the future as resource scarcity increases) since prices and wages can, should and could keep pace accordingly. the problem arises for the working class when wages do not keep up with inflation, which has been the trend for the past 30 years, however this trend will increase much more drastically in the coming years as the wealth gap increases due to more and more wealth being extracted from the now middle class, soon to be ex-middle class.

also, the us govt debt is denominated in us dollars, and a lot of the public debt is owed to govt programs and to the treasury. it is impossible for america to default on it's debt because it can print unlimited amounts of us dollars to meet debt obligations denominated in us dollars. secondly, throughout history no country has ever paid back it's debt in full, when adjusting for inflation and using real value, because countries purposely inflate their currency as a means of depreciating debt obligations, for themselves and also the wealthy, the latter we're attempting right now which lead to our current commodity price bubble. the number value of our debt is not the important aspect to focus on, it is what our debt and deficit is currently being spent on that is of utmost importance and significance. we have failing infrastructure, horrible education and penal system as well as other obligations a country has to it's citizens being unmet to instead use the collective tax dollars to further enrich the wealthy via bank bailouts, needless wars, a pointless military industrial complex, and corporate subsidies. you are missing the forest for the trees here, the real welfare queens are raytheon, GE, and other multinational corporations that not only pay 0 dollars in taxes off their 200 billion+ yearly revenue but actually receive tax refunds back from the government due to the inherently corrupt nature of our country.

to clarify on something: when i refer to the wealthy, i don't mean millionaires or whatever as they are largely irrelevant. i am speaking of the billionaires who implicitly control the country, and use their power over the country to further enrich them selves off of public tax payer money.

Soul Crusher

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2011, 08:05:59 PM »
That post was unreadable.

aesthetics

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2011, 08:10:13 PM »
i guess i need to post a comic of obama with a bone through his nose for you to understand, eh

Soul Crusher

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2011, 08:11:35 PM »
i guess i need to post a comic of obama with a bone through his nose for you to understand, eh

No.   the Fed Reserve exists solely to advance the interests of the govt.    Do you not see that?   

aesthetics

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2011, 08:18:33 PM »
what are the interests of the govt if not the interests of the people whom put into power the politicians and the lawmakers that comprise our government?

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2011, 08:23:38 PM »
what are the interests of the govt if not the interests of the people whom put into power the politicians and the lawmakers that comprise our government?

Well, if you look at it that way fine, lets give away free money to everyone, crush the savers, and reward the debtors.   

aesthetics

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2011, 08:43:32 PM »
Well, if you look at it that way fine, lets give away free money to everyone, crush the savers, and reward the debtors.   

that's not what i said, but i guess you can reach that conclusion if you are operating under the assumption that america has a legitimate democracy and it's the voters who elect the politicians and not the oligarchs who fund the campaigns.

TheGrinch

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2011, 10:15:16 PM »
want answers..?

just google how the fed was established.


lesson over

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2011, 10:27:26 PM »
When did Mike Norman start posting on getbit?

Soul Crusher

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2011, 06:08:30 AM »

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2011, 06:27:44 AM »
tter nonsense.  I have read at least a dozen books on this topic alone.  he Fed was created and exists solely to advance the goals of the govt and banister elite. 

it has to be IMPOSSIBLE for you to support any candidate not named Ron paul.

Hell, Cain WORKED for the fed lmao

Soul Crusher

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2011, 06:29:29 AM »
it has to be IMPOSSIBLE for you to support any candidate not named Ron paul.

Hell, Cain WORKED for the fed lmao

i am in a few fights on FR over my support for RP.  That place is getting real stupid lately. 

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2011, 06:34:27 AM »
i am in a few fights on FR over my support for RP.  That place is getting real stupid lately. 

wait, they don't support ron paul?

I thought they were very anti-ROmney over there.

I would consider ron paul to be the OPPOSITE of Romney.

Very weird.  They found a weird channel of cain/perry/newt support?  I don't understand that.

Soul Crusher

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2011, 06:36:31 AM »
wait, they don't support ron paul?

I thought they were very anti-ROmney over there.

I would consider ron paul to be the OPPOSITE of Romney.

Very weird.  They found a weird channel of cain/perry/newt support?  I don't understand that.

After Sarah dropped out - they have been going from messiah to messiah. 

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2011, 06:49:03 AM »
i'm just in complete shock that any group of republicans that HATE romeny so much that they ban any support of him...

would just support newt, cain, and perry (they've all held the smae liberal positions, from HPV to amnesty to Dream to TARP)....

Yet they hate on Ron Paul?    I don't get it.   He's 100% what they should be looking for.  He's damn near perfect.

Soul Crusher

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2011, 06:49:55 AM »
i'm just in complete shock that any group of republicans that HATE romeny so much that they ban any support of him...

would just support newt, cain, and perry (they've all held the smae liberal positions, from HPV to amnesty to Dream to TARP)....

Yet they hate on Ron Paul?    I don't get it.   He's 100% what they should be looking for.  He's damn near perfect.

They think he wants us disarmed militarily.  . 

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2011, 06:54:59 AM »
They think he wants us disarmed militarily.  . 

oh, cause he wants to pull 50,000 men out of south korea, etc?

I think that'll make for a stronger america - because the resentment many countries feel - hating us because we have bases there exploiting their nations - will end.

I never understood that mentality "We need to be 20 times bigger than the rest of the world military combined - 10 times just isn't enough".

That global dick measuring contest put us $15 trillion in debt.  Don't they get that?  I know people who have $10 grand in credit card bills, but own 40 handguns.  I guess it's that same mentality.  WHy not just enjoy 8 handguns, and pay off your bills?

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2011, 07:30:58 AM »



Soul Crusher

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2011, 07:47:43 AM »
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aesthetics

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2011, 09:37:14 AM »
it has to be IMPOSSIBLE for you to support any candidate not named Ron paul.

Hell, Cain WORKED for the fed lmao

to be fair ron paul is the only presidential candidate who would be a force of good in this world, which is why he'll never get elected. next best and unlikely scenario would be the dismantlement of the us electoral system and a direct democracy replacing it but might as well wish for world peace and creation of an unlimited energy source at that point 

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Re: FED TO THE RESCUE
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2011, 01:09:57 PM »
The Federal Reserve, Now Bailing Out Politicians
December 1, 2011

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2011/12/01/the-federal-reserve-now-bailing-out-politicians



The bank bailouts in 2008 and 2009 were controversial because wealthy bankers seemed like the last people who needed help. Now, the Federal Reserve and other central banks are rescuing one group held in even lower regard than bankers: politicians.

[See 11 dates investors need to watch.]

Financial markets cheered recently when the Fed and five other central banks took action to ease a credit crunch in Europe's financial sector. Stocks soared, as investors expressed relief that somebody, finally, seemed able to do something decisive to improve the situation in Europe.

Yet the central bank maneuvers, meant to ease the ability of foreign banks to trade their currencies for dollars, do nothing to address the fundamental debt problem bedeviling Europe. Euro-zone nations such as Greece, Italy and Spain remain overwhelmed with debt, with no agreement in sight on how they can fix their finances and make their economies more competitive. Central banks temporarily easing the strain may even make the required fixes less likely, since it gives politicians wiggle room to stall on reforms needed to rein in profligate spending.

The bank bailouts in 2008 and 2009 stabilized the U.S. financial system, but they also added to the "moral hazard" that contributed to the problem in the first place. By making it clear that the government wouldn't let big banks fail, the bailouts signaled that bankers can get away with risky moves, since the feds will always provide a safety net. The Federal Reserve and its compatriots in Europe and Japan are now basically creating political moral hazard, by letting elected officials know that if they can't get the job done, the central banks will step in to prevent a full-blown disaster. It's an invitation to further recklessness that politicians don't need.

Europe's debt problems, like those in the United States, are complicated but not beyond fixing. It's generally known what overdrawn countries need to do. The International Monetary Fund has laid out a detailed set of spending cuts, tax hikes and other reforms Greece must enforce in order to continue receiving bailout money. Italy and Spain haven't asked for a bailout yet—and there's nowhere near enough money available if they do—but they must still appease investors who buy their bonds, by liberalizing work rules, unclogging the pipeline for new businesses and growing faster. If they don't, the interest rates they must pay to borrow will keep rising, until debt-servicing costs overwhelm the whole economy.

[See why Europe's debt crisis is taking so long.]

The problem is that enacting those kinds of reforms disrupts inbred institutions and requires voters to make sacrifices, for the apparent benefit of financial overlords in other counties. So politicians dither as long as possible, and try until the last second to pass the cost of reforms to bondholders, or anybody else.

"Policy makers believe that if there is some magic elixir, governments will have the breathing room to clean themselves up," says currency expert Axel Merk, president of Merk Investments in Palo Alto, California. "However, policy makers have proven that the moment the pressure abates, the willingness to push through tough reforms evaporates."

The European Central Bank, in fact, has resisted the kind of aggressive intervention practiced in the United States by the Federal Reserve, out of concern that it will let Europe's political leaders off the hook and pre-empt the need to fix corrupt or broken economies. It still hasn't embarked on a huge, Fed-style bond-buying program, but investors now clearly think the ECB—prodded, perhaps, by the Fed—is getting off the sidelines, ready to prime Europe's economy. That's good in the short-term for stock markets, but if politicians get a reprieve, all the fundamental problems will continue to hamstring the European economy.

[See how the Congress is unwittingly raising your taxes.]

America's debt problem is easier to solve, since it only takes one legislative body to pass a plan (rather than the 17 in the euro zone), and one executive to sign it into law. But Congress has obviously decided it doesn't need to solve anything, evidenced most recently by the debt "supercommittee" that disbanded after accomplishing nothing at all. Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke has pleaded with Congress to come up with a plan to pay down the debt, before it becomes an intensifying problem characterized by rising interest rates, tightening credit and a sudden crunch that is sure to be felt by taxpayers. But since those pains aren't yet present, Congress has ignored Bernanke.

It was Congress in 2008 that authorized the spending of roughly $700 billion to bail out the banks, then passed another big stimulus bill in 2009 to help lessen the impact of what turned out to be a near-depression. Though those measures were controversial, Congress was doing its job. But since then, Congress has backed away from stimulus or job-creation measures, even though the economy is in precarious shape and the jobless rate remains sky-high. Nor has it come up with a debt-reduction plan that would reassure investors or guarantee that the nation's credit rating won't fall any further. The Fed has become the lone economic stimulator, as well as the backstop for the whole economy, through "quantitative easing" and other programs meant to boost the value of stocks, force interest rates down, and keep credit flowing.

[See what would happen if we all acted like Congress.]

The Fed is running out of tricks, however. And besides, it's not the Fed's job to oversee the government's spending, taxing and borrowing. That's up to Congress and the president.

The Fed and its equivalent in other countries can delay some of the pain—for awhile—but eventually, politicians will need to do the job they were elected to do. Giving them an excuse to do nothing, until there's no other choice, could make the job that much harder when they finally get around to it.

Twitter: @rickjnewman