PCT - Please Advise

[animal1991]

I know this board is very anti-PCT but I need some good quality info in regards to recovering the best post cycle.
I've been reading on the web but there is a lot of conflicting info.
Some say use HCG-Clomid-Nolva, others say use HCG-Aromasin, and some say if you ran Tren/Deca use Dostinex/Prami post cycle.
I had low testosterone before starting the cycle so I really want to recover the best I can.
I am currently on Tren Ace, Masteron Prop and Test Prop and the cycle is going to end in about 5/6 weeks.
Please advise me on the best thing to do and to take because it is very important for me to recover properly.
Any guys with proper knowledge of PCT?
Please don't just say PCT is useless because I know there must be some benefit and I don't plan on staying ON permanently.
Thanks

[Arnold jr]

3 days after your final injections....

HCG every day for 10 days....1,000iu every day

Immediately following HCG start Clomid or Nolva

If Clomid:

wk 1: 150mg/ed
wk 2: 150mg/ed
wk 3: 100mg/ed
wk 4: 100mg/ed
wk 5: 50mg/ed

If Nolva:

wk 1: 40mg/ed
wk 2: 40mg/ed
wk 3: 20mg/ed
wk 4: 20mg/ed
wk 5: 10mg/ed

[makaveli25]

Personally I would go with clomid.

day 1-5 100mg
day 5-40 50mg

week 1-4 daa powder

week 1-4 igf-lr3

[animal1991]

3 days after your final injections....

HCG every day for 10 days....1,000iu every day

Immediately following HCG start Clomid or Nolva

If Clomid:

wk 1: 150mg/ed
wk 2: 150mg/ed
wk 3: 100mg/ed
wk 4: 100mg/ed
wk 5: 50mg/ed

If Nolva:

wk 1: 40mg/ed
wk 2: 40mg/ed
wk 3: 20mg/ed
wk 4: 20mg/ed
wk 5: 10mg/ed

Will this be for the best recovery possible? Some say Aromasin is better than Clomid for PCT? Is this true?

Got this from another site:
1.) 1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri)
in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED
for the first 3 weeks. After,
discontinue HCG and continue with 20
mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3
weeks.
2.) 1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri)
in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED
and 50 mgs Clomid ED for the first 3
weeks. After, discontinue HCG and
continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED and
50 mgs Clomid ED for an additional 3
weeks.
3.) 1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri)
in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED
for the first 3 weeks. After,
discontinue HCG and continue 20 mgs
Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks.
4.) 1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri)
in combination with 100 mgs Clomid ED
and 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3
weeks. After, discontinue HCG and
continue with 50 mgs Clomid ED and 20
mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3
weeks.
http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/14720-hcg-pct-recovery-protocols.html
Opinion?

What about including Proviron in PCT? Some say it is suppressive, others say it isn't? It would be great for a libido boost?
Also what about limp dick post cycle? Should I order some Viagra and Cialis?
Thanks!

[animal1991]

Personally I would go with clomid.

day 1-5 100mg
day 5-40 50mg

week 1-4 daa powder

week 1-4 igf-lr3

What's a good international site to order daa powder from? I'm from South Africa and we don't get the powder here, only in supplement form which is way too expensive!

[Arnold jr]

Will this be for the best recovery possible? Some say Aromasin is better than Clomid for PCT? Is this true?

Got this from another site:
1.) 1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri)
in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED
for the first 3 weeks. After,
discontinue HCG and continue with 20
mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3
weeks.
2.) 1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri)
in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED
and 50 mgs Clomid ED for the first 3
weeks. After, discontinue HCG and
continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED and
50 mgs Clomid ED for an additional 3
weeks.
3.) 1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri)
in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED
for the first 3 weeks. After,
discontinue HCG and continue 20 mgs
Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks.
4.) 1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri)
in combination with 100 mgs Clomid ED
and 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3
weeks. After, discontinue HCG and
continue with 50 mgs Clomid ED and 20
mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3
weeks.
http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/14720-hcg-pct-recovery-protocols.html
Opinion?

What about including Proviron in PCT? Some say it is suppressive, others say it isn't? It would be great for a libido boost?
Also what about limp dick post cycle? Should I order some Viagra and Cialis?
Thanks!

I don't like the idea of AI's during PCT due to the estrogen suppressing...SERM's won't do that.

HCG...so many guys screw themselves up with HCG, and it's why for awhile I am firmly against its on-cycle use...in-fact, I find it idiotic, and I say that as someone who used to do it. Anyway, when it comes to PCT HCG use, the dosing itself is not as important as the duration used...I think you'll rarely find a guy who needs more than 1,000iu per day, but 1,500iu isn't going to be the end of the world. That said, multiple wks of HCG use, this is where you start playing with fire...the body seems to adapt and become dependent on HCG quite unlike any hormone, and if that happens you're screwed. Over the past yr, I've spoken with three different doctors through work about this, all three are hormone specialist, and all three have stated they have more former steroid user patients who screwed themselves using HCG more so than steroids....it's not even close.

Proviron....no, it's not going to promote natural production, and that's your only concern.

If your HCG, Nolvad or Clomid is good you shouldn't have any libido issues. If you do, something is wrong with the plan or what you're using. Even so, even if it's not needed....especially if it's not actually needed, Cialis can be a whole lot of fun!

[Morsprincipium]

HCG is trash IMO.  Destroys leydig cells when used at high doses for prolonged periods of time.  Regardless of the PCT protocol, you'll lose a good chunk of mass.  You're on one of the harshest steroids available, then coming off and trying to get your natural hormone levels stabilized, you will shrink.

Nolva or clomid, that's really all you need

[DK II]

Best "PCT" = 250mg Test e7d.

[animal1991]

What happens if I don't do PCT at all?
Remember I had lowish natty test to begin with...
I know PCT is kinda taboo, but I want to regain higher natty test levels than I normally have.

[DK II]

What happens if I don't do PCT at all?
Remember I had lowish natty test to begin with...
I know PCT is kinda taboo, but I want to regain higher natty test levels than I normally have.

Nothing.

People back in the days never did PCT. You will eventually lose your gains faster than doing PCT, but you'll lose them sooner or later anyways, but when you don't do pct, you will not have taken any cancer medicine for women.

You can say what you want, but I will stay away from the stuff as best as I can.

If you want higher test levels, stay on 250mg e7d, that's a good HRT dose and will rather do good things for your health than bad. If you're over 35, there's not even a question if you should do it.

[animal1991]

What about fertility on 250mg test a week?

[DK II]

What about fertility on 250mg test a week?

Depends highly on the individual. Quite a few guys I know have gotten their gf/wives/lover pregnant on high amounts of gear.

I don't care though, I am through with my family planning.

[Pericles]

If it was me I would do it this way.

lets say I did a 12 week cycle of test cyp or something
7 days after the last shot of test
500iu hcg daily for 14 days along with aromasin
following last hcg shot do 2 weeks of clomid before bed at 50mg.
You should recover just fine.

[T-rex]

What happens if I don't do PCT at all?
Remember I had lowish natty test to begin with...
I know PCT is kinda taboo, but I want to regain higher natty test levels than I normally have.

Before my current cycle I ran test c(500mg/wk) by itself for 6 months, then tapered down, then took about 5 months off completely. Lost every gain. Literally started this cycle at ground zero. Only PCT was clomid 50mg per day. That lasted barely a week. Clomid turns me into an emotional chick(no tranny). So I basically came off with no PCT. I kept the clomid only incase gyno appeared. Man let me tell you something, it takes awhile to get back to homeostasis. But eventually you will be yourself again. Alot of the vets on here recommend PCT. And they have 100x the experience I have. Hey if it helps you rebound faster hell yeah. Maybe if I went with nolva(this time I am) and stuck with it I may have saved myself some time and mental pain. Imagine what your body is going through when you stop all gear esp if your balls are trying to kickstart on and estrogen is running amuck.

[animal1991]

Is the HCG only necessary to regain ball size so to say or does it help for other stuff aswell?
Nolva vs Clomid?
If I were to run just Nolva or Clomid, how would that be run?

[animal1991]

What would a nolva only pct look like? Dosage and duration?

[SystemMezo]

Anyone here used Toremifene? It seems to be popular now.

[efanhowz]

Pharm grade toremifene does not exist, just scamming research sites.

I would not go overboard with pct
500iu hcg every 2 or 3 days for 2-3 weeks
50mg clomid 2-3 weeks
40mg nolva and/or 12.5mg aromasin per day for 4 weeks, taper off

And plenty of time OFF is the best PCT

[animal1991]

Under my understanding its kinda best to recover naturally. I say this because when your on pct you use other hormones with their on side effects to bring up your own hormones instead of letting your body just reach homeostasis by itself again.
Does it make sense?

[DK II]

this is what I do:

I only use short esters and orals, and I limit my cycles to 8 weeks. Usually 1~1.5g of hormones per week.

during cycle I run hcg 200~250iu eod...but you can get away with 3x per week. 700~1000iu per week is a good dosage for keeping your balls big and producing testosterone without too much estrogen conversion.

And it's very safe, you only can damage your leydig cells if you take stupid amounts of hcg like 5000iu at once, for several shots. There's no need to take super large doses of hcg, your testicles can only take so much stimulation, the rest will only convert to estrogen, and we don't want that. HCG aromatizes a LOT in higher dosages (>500iu at once)

you can discontinue hcg the last week of cycle

3 days after my last shot of prop, I start the serms.

day 1: 150mg clomid (50mg 3x)
day 2~30: 50mg clomid

and it helps if you add I3C 400mg ed, this helps with estrogen imbalances, it's the same compound found in brocoli. Google it.

you can add tamoxifen (10~20mg ed), but I recover very well without it. My test levels are always above 700ng/dl 1 month after pct ends...

8 weeks ON 8 weeks OFF

this works well for me 

Way too much chemicals for nothing really....

I bet my ass you're way better off just staying on a constant dose of steroids than making yourself go through this hormone rollercoaster.

[madg]

i dont do pct

if i want drop steroid completely,,i go on gh

gh or 250mg/week cruise for me

[Arnold jr]

Under my understanding its kinda best to recover naturally. I say this because when your on pct you use other hormones with their on side effects to bring up your own hormones instead of letting your body just reach homeostasis by itself again.
Does it make sense?

Doesn't matter who you are, if you cycle, and come off it will take every bit of a year for your natural levels to recover back to where they were before your cycle. As such, during that time you're going to have a period of time, an extended period of time in-which your levels are far below optimal.

Now if you're going to go back on cycle before too long, a PCT plan is probably not the best idea...that definitely creates a roller-coaster effect that's unneeded. However, if you're going to be off for an extended period of time you need to do something. No, a PCT plan is not going to cure you or bring your levels back to normal, but it will give you enough testosterone to function properly while your levels continue to naturally climb once the PCT period is over.

If you're going to be off for awhile, there's no reason to put your body under the stress of a low testosterone condition. It is one of the most unhealthy conditions you can put your body into....I've talked about this numerous time in numerous threads in the past.

As for HGH...that has nothing to do with anything....that's not going to play a role either way in-regards to the topic of this thread. 

[Overload]

When i came off a 3.5 year run with AAS, all i did was shoot some HCG the last 6 weeks and i took clomid for 4 weeks after my last shot of test i believe.

It took 8 months for my test values to be within normal range and they haven't changed much since then.

Not quite sure what GH has to do with recovery from a AAS cycle or PCT.

[Arnold jr]

When i came off a 3.5 year run with AAS, all i did was shoot some HCG the last 6 weeks and i took clomid for 4 weeks after my last shot of test i believe.

It took 8 months for my test values to be within normal range and they haven't changed much since then.

Not quite sure what GH has to do with recovery from a AAS cycle or PCT.

8 months sounds about right, and it would have been even longer without the hcg/clomid combo.

The biggest thing thought, although your levels were still low during that 8 month time period you still had enough testosterone in your system to keep you from truly crashing....that's the biggest and most important factor of all.