www.fairtax.org awesome no brainer

[magikusar]

FairTax seems like a simple choice
Wednesday, February 15, 2012
By: David Boone

Post Bulletin

We all have to make tough choices in life. Choosing between the current income tax and the FairTax is not that tough. How would you like to get your entire paycheck, for an immediate 10 percent raise, maybe more?

How would you like to never have to file another income tax form for the rest of your life? How would you like to see a number for the cost of running the federal government on every cash register receipt?

How would you like to see trillions of dollars returned to the U.S. from Switzerland, Cayman Islands, Hong Kong, etc. to jump start the economy and restore "Made in America?"

How would you like to see all the new jobs that would come from expanding the GDP by 10 percent? How would you like to take control from DC and eliminate tax favors for the special few who can afford to play the lobby game?

How would you like an automatic check every month to reimburse you for taxes to be paid on food, housing and medical costs — $564 for a family of four? The FairTax is not a tough choice; in fact it's a "no brainer."

- David Boone, Houston, MN

[Straw Man]

definitely seem to appeal to people with no brains

[magikusar]

definitely seem to appeal to people with no brains

TO non intelelctuals: a no brainer means you don't engage your brain its so obvious a decision.

[Straw Man]

TO non intelelctuals: a no brainer means you don't engage your brain its so obvious a decision.

LOL - you must be here to make 333 look less crazy and more intelligent by comparison

they named it the fair tax so morons such as yourself would think it's "fair"

[magikusar]

LOL - you must be here to make 333 look less crazy and more intelligent by comparison

they named it the fair tax so morons such as yourself would think it's "fair"

Look you insulting anti intellectual goon, don't go calling me a moron, or do it to my face and accept the penalty.  What is crazy are people voting for communist policies and ignoring 16T debt and megainflation while upping penalties for running a business?   The very fact that you attack me personally in rude way instead of arguing an issue shows you have no ammo.

[Fury]

LOL - you must be here to make 333 look less crazy and more intelligent by comparison

they named it the fair tax so morons such as yourself would think it's "fair"

Yes, whatever would we do without people like you to dole out other people's money in order to stay in power. Heaven forbid every American be treated equally. 

[howardroark]

LOL - you must be here to make 333 look less crazy and more intelligent by comparison

they named it the fair tax so morons such as yourself would think it's "fair"

I agree with you that there's nothing fair about the so-called "Fair" Tax, but one would think that a progressive consumption tax such as the FairTax would be right up your alley.

[Straw Man]

I agree with you that there's nothing fair about the so-called "Fair" Tax, but one would think that a progressive consumption tax such as the FairTax would be right up your alley.

why would you think I would be in support of such a thing

I think a consumption tax would be regressive rather than progressive

I am in favor of a progressive/graduated income tax, reform of AMT, closing loopholes (especially corporate loopholes) etc..

[howardroark]

why would you think I would be in support of such a thing

I think a consumption tax would be regressive rather than progressive

I am in favor of a progressive/graduated income tax, reform of AMT, closing loopholes (especially corporate loopholes) etc..

It's a flat consumption tax with a "prebate" offset that makes it progressive. The more you consume the more you pay.

[Straw Man]

It's a flat consumption tax with a "prebate" offset that makes it progressive. The more you consume the more you pay.

?

[magikusar]

?

its quite smple

you pay on spending not on income

rich guys have to pay for all nice stuff they buy

modest guys pay less

no more payroll or income tax

no loophole for lobbyists

no tax on used goods

if you make under certain amount you get amount equal to tax you would pay from gov for the first X amount of income, so you are not penalized

AWESOME

oh by the way no IRS and no tax returns

700billino spent on tax lawyer n tax preparers GONE back into economy to help poor

[avxo]

?

What's unclear? It's a "flat" tax in the sense that all goods sold are taxed at the same percentage of their pretax price, but progressive in the sense that you pay more when you spend more. A "prebate" is a check, sent by the Government, to all taxpayers, as a refund for spending up to the poverty level.

no more payroll or income tax

Not necessarily true. What stops Congress from keeping payroll or income taxes? Is the FairTax magic and will prevent this from happening?

no tax on used goods

Remember you said that was a good thing when you end up shopping at second hard thrift stores because the prices of new goods are through the roof.

if you make under certain amount you get amount equal to tax you would pay from gov for the first X amount of income, so you are not penalized

Wrong. Under FairTax, each month, every taxpayer would get a check from the Federal goverment - a "prebate" for their spending for the following month up to the povery level.

AWESOME

Don't let the "Fair" in "FairTax" confuse you. If you really want fair taxation there's a number of much better proposals.

[Straw Man]

its quite smple

you pay on spending not on income

rich guys have to pay for all nice stuff they buy

modest guys pay less

no more payroll or income tax

no loophole for lobbyists

no tax on used goods

if you make under certain amount you get amount equal to tax you would pay from gov for the first X amount of income, so you are not penalized

AWESOME

oh by the way no IRS and no tax returns

700billino spent on tax lawyer n tax preparers GONE back into economy to help poor

I know what a consumption tax is

I dont' know what a "prebate" offset that makes it progressive." means

I'm not in favor of swapping an income tax for consumption tax and it will never happen anyway

[Straw Man]

What's unclear? It's a "flat" tax in the sense that all goods sold are taxed at the same percentage of their pretax price, but progressive in the sense that you pay more when you spend more. A "prebate" is a check, sent by the Government, to all taxpayers, as a refund for spending up to the poverty level.

since this doesn't exist are there are least some examples/models of what the tax revenue would look like

would middle class peoeple pay less than they are paying now ?

would a barter economy pop up to get around the taxes?

[howardroark]

Straw Man:

Under the FairTax, everyone gets a check from the government the beginning of each month in order to offset the taxes they'll pay for the bare necessities like food, housing, gasoline, etc. Under the 2011 proposal, the prebate would be $209 per month for an individual adult.
 
This turns out to be a very progressive system and many leftists have signed on to it. In fact, the FairTax bill in Congress has bipartisan support. Kotlikoff, a left-wing economist who is now challenging Obama in the primaries, has authored studies showing that those on the lower-end of the income ladder would benefit the most from the FairTax. The middle class would benefit moderately, while the wealthy would benefit the least.

It's important to remember that, while low-income and even middle class individuals tend to pay quite low income tax rates, they also pay quite significant payroll taxes both directly and indirectly. And because of the $100k or so cut-off for payroll taxes, the burden of the payroll tax is mainly on middle class Americans. So by completely replacing all currently-existing taxes, the FairTax would significantly cut taxes on the poor and middle class and actually shift the burden a little more onto the wealthy.

Which is quite an amazing accomplishment once you realize that the United States already has the most progressive tax system in the world according to the OECD.

[Straw Man]

Straw Man:

Under the FairTax, everyone gets a check from the government the beginning of each month in order to offset the taxes they'll pay for the bare necessities like food, housing, gasoline, etc. Under the 2011 proposal, the prebate would be $209 per month for an individual adult.
 
This turns out to be a very progressive system and many leftists have signed on to it. In fact, the FairTax bill in Congress has bipartisan support. Kotlikoff, a left-wing economist who is now challenging Obama in the primaries, has authored studies showing that those on the lower-end of the income ladder would benefit the most from the FairTax. The middle class would benefit moderately, while the wealthy would benefit the least.

It's important to remember that, while low-income and even middle class individuals tend to pay quite low income tax rates, they also pay quite significant payroll taxes both directly and indirectly. And because of the $100k or so cut-off for payroll taxes, the burden of the payroll tax is mainly on middle class Americans. So by completely replacing all currently-existing taxes, the FairTax would significantly cut taxes on the poor and middle class and actually shift the burden a little more onto the wealthy.

Which is quite an amazing accomplishment once you realize that the United States already has the most progressive tax system in the world according to the OECD.

so the government is going to know exactly how much people spend on ncecessitites (food, gas, housing, etc..) on a monthly  basis and are going to be able to know how to change the rebate on a monthly basis as the cost of things like food and gas change (without taking into account any changes in consumption due to higher prices?)

how are they going to track all of that and at what cost

do everyones taxes go down i.e. less total tax revenue?

how does social security get funded (or is there an assupmption it would be phased or or just flat out eliminated)

is this model in place anywhere in the world in any kind of economy similar to ours

last question - why is this "fair" as I presume it implies the current way we collect taxes is unfair?

[avxo]

so the government is going to know exactly how much people spend on ncecessitites (food, gas, housing, etc..) on a monthly  basis and are going to be able to know how to change the rebate on a monthly basis as the cost of things like food and gas change (without taking into account any changes in consumption due to higher prices?)

how are they going to track all of that and at what cost

The check if for the amount of spending on "necessities" at the poverty level. In other words it's an estimate.

do everyones taxes go down i.e. less total tax revenue?

It's supposed to be revenue-neutral, but result in less taxes by flattening and broadening the tax base. Not everyone buys that.

last question - why is this "fair" as I presume it implies the current way we collect taxes is unfair?

Good question. It's not really fair in any particular way.

[howardroark]

First of all, you have elementary questions. So just fucking google it next time.

Secondly, avxo answered the other stuff well so I'll focus on this:

how does social security get funded (or is there an assupmption it would be phased or or just flat out eliminated)

Out of general tax revenue.

is this model in place anywhere in the world in any kind of economy similar to ours

Are there models explaining how the FairTax will work? Yes.

Are there any other governments in the world that currently solely rely on a consumption tax? No.

last question - why is this "fair" as I presume it implies the current way we collect taxes is unfair?

As I indicated earlier, I don't think it's fair, since it amounts to wealth redistribution. That said, it does cut out on the ridiculous thousands and thousands of pages and dozens of different taxes that currently make up our tax code.

[Straw Man]

First of all, you have elementary questions. So just fucking google it next time.
Secondly, avxo answered the other stuff well so I'll focus on this:

Out of general tax revenue.

Are there models explaining how the FairTax will work? Yes.

Are there any other governments in the world that currently solely rely on a consumption tax? No.

As I indicated earlier, I don't think it's fair, since it amounts to wealth redistribution. That said, it does cut out on the ridiculous thousands and thousands of pages and dozens of different taxes that currently make up our tax code.

I don't use GB.com as a source information

When I ask you a question it's because I want to know what you think or believe to be true