Author Topic: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane  (Read 2286 times)

Dos Equis

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Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« on: July 25, 2012, 07:47:57 PM »
Interesting discussion.

Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
Wednesday, 25 Jul 2012
By Dr. G. Heath King

"Tonight you’re all going to be a part of a social experiment… At midnight I blow you all up" — Heath Ledger as the Joker in the film "The Dark Knight"

That ominous line, used in the climactic scene in the second film of the Batman trilogy, “The Dark Knight,” is now particularly painful to hear after the tragic mass killings in Aurora, Colorado, during a midnight screening of the sequel, “The Dark Knight Rises.”

Just as the film began, a young man who apparently fancied himself as The Joker, replete with red hair and body armor, opened fire from the front of a crowded theater with an assault rifle. James Holmes also used gas to create a diversion, just as the Joker does in “The Dark Knight.”

It is symbolic that the worst mass shooting in American history took place in a cinema, for rarely before have the boundaries of fact and fiction, reality and virtual reality, become as blurred and perilous as in our time. Likely thinking it was a promotional stunt – Holmes allegedly shouted “I am the Joker” -- the doomed patrons probably had even less time to react before the carnage commenced.

Yet it is precisely in this nebulous melding of reality and virtual reality that what has been referred to as an incomprehensible tragedy becomes intelligible as the Joker's mask is lifted. Holmes' consciously cultivated identification with the Joker clearly indicates he is not "psychotic" or "insane" as many commentators have deemed him.

Why? Psychosis is a clinically specific condition exhibiting impaired thought processes and a loss of contact with external reality. Holmes, by contrast, is much like the Joker of the films and comic books. By all accounts he has an astute intellect and is keenly in touch with reality – his exceptional academic performance in neuroscience and shrewd long-term planning of the massacre is proof of that. Even his surrender to police was clearly planned and scripted – the wording in his profile on a sex website asks, "Will you visit me in prison?"

Moreover, Holmes is fully conscious of the nature of his acts and their implications, which by legal definition eliminates the insanity defense. Following the traditional gold standard M’Naughten Rule from 19th Century England, the accused must not have been able to know “the difference between right and wrong.” Yet Holmes clearly knew this distinction and operated by rational, free choice.

One of his main characteristics is that he is highly manipulative. We may expect Holmes to continually reinvent himself in attempting to mastermind the system as he did at his first court appearance by feigning a dazed disassociation from reality. This is already evident in his disingenuous facial expressions and the contrived stare of 20 to 30 seconds. That is not in accord with proven durations of eye movements and emotions that measure between 5 and 10 seconds maximum, as body language expert Renate Mousseux has noted.

It is in this continual attempt to manipulate and feign that we see another characteristic of the Joker from the films and the graphic novels. Of particular relevance for the coming period is the incarceration of the Joker in Arkham Asylum, the fictional mental hospital that holds many of the villains in the lore of Batman. The Joker simulates insanity so as to evade the death penalty. In the same vein, we may also expect that some mental health practitioners will advocate leniency based on deleterious circumstances in Holmes' childhood. After all, the Joker gained sympathy in this manner from the psychiatrist Harleen Quinzel, who treated him at the asylum and succumbed to his manipulation. (Quinzel eventually becomes the villainess Harley Quinn after she herself goes “insane.”)

Were those diagnosing Holmes to fail to penetrate his camouflaged modus operandi, as has happened so often in comparable court proceedings, they too will have succumbed to a ruse articulated in the ancient Chinese text entitled Thirty-Six Stratagems: “Hide behind the mask of a fool, a drunk, or a madman to create confusion about your intentions and motivations. Lure your opponent into understanding your ability until, overconfident, he drops his guard. Then you may attack.” (Stratagem 27)

Mastery at manipulation is more commonly found among psychopaths than psychotics, as is a grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, absence of guilt or remorse, deflection of responsibility, and a complete lack of empathy.

It is the total absence of empathy, of any emotional affinity to another human being, that enables psychopaths like Holmes to massacre innocent men, women, and children. The criminal psychopath experiments with humans as if they were insects or the hummingbirds whose flight muscles Holmes studied as an intern at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla.

In such settings the psychopath can exercise total control and create malaise and bedlam at will. The estranged outlier Holmes shares this motive, too, with the Joker, who reveals his ultimate mission in "The Dark Knight": "Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos."

In the fragile psyche of the criminal psychopath, order and chaos are not polar opposites, but two sides of the same coin. Holmes’ meticulous focus on laboratory experiments in a sense contained and controlled the chaos whirling within. Once abandoned, as in the last months before the massacre, chaos could not only erupt but be malevolently embraced. Hence his announcement as he unleashed the carnage, “I am the Joker."

G. Heath King, Ph.D, is a psychoanalyst and former professor of interdisciplinary studies at Yale University. He is author of "Existence, Thought, Style: Perspectives of a Primary Relation, Portrayed Through the Work of Søren Kierkegaard." He explored the philosophical foundations of psychology at the University of Freiburg, Germany, where he completed his doctorate.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/holmes-colorado-shooting-insanity/2012/07/25/id/446570

Soul Crusher

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 08:16:15 PM »
He planned this months in advance.     Feed. Him to the alligators. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2012, 08:35:34 PM »
I don't want this guy to get off on insantiy or whatever but...

From the article: "Psychosis is a clinically specific condition exhibiting impaired thought processes and a loss of contact with external reality"

Uh... can someone explain how someone who reaches a point where they think they are "the joker" and start shooting up a theater does not qualify as an impaired thought process and LOSS of contact with reality?

HUH?

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 08:36:14 PM »
He planned this months in advance.     Feed. Him to the alligators. 

yep.  shit was quite premeditated.  he just wanted to kill people.  burned out at his current career and just wanted to end it.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 08:37:10 PM »
I don't want this guy to get off on insantiy or whatever but...

From the article: "Psychosis is a clinically specific condition exhibiting impaired thought processes and a loss of contact with external reality"

Uh... can someone explain how someone who reaches a point where they think they are "the joker" and start shooting up a theater does not qualify as an impaired thought process and LOSS of contact with reality?

HUH?


he rigged his apartment 2 months prior to blow up TJE block.     He deserves to be FEd to lions.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 08:38:22 PM »
Natural reaction is to call people like this, psycho, nuts, lunitic or fucking insane.  The doctors might have a huge list of what qualifies that, but that doesn't mean he's not a fucking nutcase.  That's all I'm willing to call people who do shit like this.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 08:38:59 PM »

he rigged his apartment 2 months prior to blow up TJE block.     He deserves to be FEd to lions.
yea i agree, but that doesn't at all answer my question.

MB_722

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 09:15:53 PM »

tonymctones

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 09:26:42 PM »
Natural reaction is to call people like this, psycho, nuts, lunitic or fucking insane.  The doctors might have a huge list of what qualifies that, but that doesn't mean he's not a fucking nutcase.  That's all I'm willing to call people who do shit like this.
I agree, I will also point out that simply b/c someone is acting out a character does not mean they believe they are the character.

Im sure you dress up on Halloween and call yourself whatever your dressed up as, that doesnt mean you believe you are what you dressed up as.

Premeditation doesnt mean he was sane anymore then calling yourself a different name and dressing up makes you insane.

These are all incidents as of now not proof one way or the other. What I hope the defense doesnt do is say he was on mood altering drugs.

This might allow him to claim insanity without actually being insane.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 09:54:26 PM »
I agree, I will also point out that simply b/c someone is acting out a character does not mean they believe they are the character.

Im sure you dress up on Halloween and call yourself whatever your dressed up as, that doesnt mean you believe you are what you dressed up as.

Premeditation doesnt mean he was sane anymore then calling yourself a different name and dressing up makes you insane.

These are all incidents as of now not proof one way or the other. What I hope the defense doesnt do is say he was on mood altering drugs.

This might allow him to claim insanity without actually being insane.
You mean there's a difference between someone that dresses up like a werewolf on halloween and someone else that does the same thing but actually goes out and slaughters a victim?  shocking lol...  Doctors might not call the second example insane but I will.

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2012, 12:26:26 PM »
A person doesn't lose contact with external reality because they commit a henious crime.  Sane people do evil things sometimes.  No difference between this guy and a pedophile IMO.   

tonymctones

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2012, 04:22:57 PM »
A person doesn't lose contact with external reality because they commit a henious crime.  Sane people do evil things sometimes.  No difference between this guy and a pedophile IMO.   
exactly, being insane means that do not have a grasp of reality.

just b/c he dressed up and called himself the joker doesnt mean he was crazy anymore then the fact the killings were premeditated means he was sane.

Dos Equis

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2012, 04:24:01 PM »
exactly, being insane means that do not have a grasp of reality.

just b/c he dressed up and called himself the joker doesnt mean he was crazy anymore then the fact the killings were premeditated means he was sane.

Agree.

Shockwave

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2012, 04:35:21 PM »
I think everyone is arguing semantics.

For someone like me, calling him a nutcase means he either had no concept of reality, or he had no qualms about slaughtering innocent, which, to me, means he isn't rational.

This level of irrationality = nutcase to me. Maybe not loony toons crazy, but definitely unhinged.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2012, 04:36:29 PM »
I think everyone is arguing semantics.

For someone like me, calling him a nutcase means he either had no concept of reality, or he had no qualms about slaughtering innocent, which, to me, means he isn't rational.

This level of irrationality = nutcase to me. Maybe not loony toons crazy, but definitely unhinged.
It's only important that you see this the way BB does lol..  If you're not on the same page your opinion is only worth an eye roll ;D

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2012, 05:29:06 PM »
What legitimate psychoanalyst renders a diagnosis without having ever met the patient
Hasn't this same guy done the same thing with many other people.   He seems more of an attention whore than a legitimate professional

tonymctones

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2012, 06:29:50 PM »
I think everyone is arguing semantics.

For someone like me, calling him a nutcase means he either had no concept of reality, or he had no qualms about slaughtering innocent, which, to me, means he isn't rational.

This level of irrationality = nutcase to me. Maybe not loony toons crazy, but definitely unhinged.
it may seem like semantics but its not.

A person who just doesnt give a shit is a sociopath, they dont subscribe to cultural norms or societal views which allows them to not give shit and commit heinous acts b/c they dont see them in the same light the general public does.

A person who has lost grip on reality: who they are, delusions or other types of reality based facts is a psychopath.

Drug dealers, rapists, ppl who murder for money etc would be sociopaths

schizophrenics, multiple person disorder etc. would be psychopaths.

The reason its not symantics is b/c with sociopaths they understand that its against the law and have no problems with the facts of reality but just dont give a shit with psychotic ppl they may or may not understand its against the law but they lost grip on reality so much that it doesnt matter.

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2012, 06:33:45 PM »
it may seem like semantics but its not.

A person who just doesnt give a shit is a sociopath, they dont subscribe to cultural norms or societal views which allows them to not give shit and commit heinous acts b/c they dont see them in the same light the general public does.

A person who has lost grip on reality: who they are, delusions or other types of reality based facts is a psychopath.

Drug dealers, rapists, ppl who murder for money etc would be sociopaths

schizophrenics, multiple person disorder etc. would be psychopaths.

The reason its not symantics is b/c with sociopaths they understand that its against the law and have no problems with the facts of reality but just dont give a shit with psychotic ppl they may or may not understand its against the law but they lost grip on reality so much that it doesnt matter.

I would consider every single one of those variations of crazy or unhinged my friend.

Btw, I'd still go so far as to say he's a psychopath rather than a sociopath, he just sat down and waited to get caught, that represents that he either didnt know what was coming, or didnt care.
Sociopaths generally dont commit blatant crimes and then chill to get caught.



tonymctones

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2012, 06:49:19 PM »
I would consider every single one of those variations of crazy or unhinged my friend.

Btw, I'd still go so far as to say he's a psychopath rather than a sociopath, he just sat down and waited to get caught, that represents that he either didnt know what was coming, or didnt care.
Sociopaths generally dont commit blatant crimes and then chill to get caught.
how many serial killers send shit into the cops to taunt them? most ppl wouldnt do that either but most arent psychotic just sociopathic.

I know it may seem like a distinction without a difference but there is a huge difference in the motives just b/c the outcomes may be similar doesnt mean there arent different motives.

I agree if i had to pick one Id go psycho but nothing ive seen right now says he was definitely a psycho.

Some ppl just want to make a point, whatever it is this dude should be put down. I kinda feel bad if he really is psychotic but that is what needs to be done.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2012, 06:49:20 PM »
LOL, imagine people saying you're wrong for calling someone a nutcase after they shoot up a movie theater...  Oh wait ::)

tonymctones

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2012, 07:05:34 PM »
LOL, imagine people saying you're wrong for calling someone a nutcase after they shoot up a movie theater...  Oh wait ::)
LOL way to let emotion get the best of you huggy.

Im saying he may not be psychotic in the legal sense, he is still a shit bag who deserves to be put down.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Noted Psychoanalyst: Colorado Shooter Acting, Not Insane
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 07:10:40 PM »
LOL way to let emotion get the best of you huggy.

Im saying he may not be psychotic in the legal sense, he is still a shit bag who deserves to be put down.
emotions?  lol... I'm not the one running around the forum trying to make a case that he's not nuts just because a few people called him a nutjob lol... Plus my comment wasn't directed right at you.  If it was, I would have quoted you.  The issue started on this board when HH said that he wasn't nuts because he had a plan after I and maybe someone else called him nuts.  I sure wasn't trying to make a case that he is legally insane.  But then the argument on if he is or isn't insane started ::)

My personal belief is that you have to be out of your mind nuts to do something like this, or altered mentally with meds.  But the last I checked they don't come to me for advice on what does or doesn't consititute insanity lol...