Eating for diabetics- Help a getbigger's mother

[240 is Back]

Problem is Type 2 diabetes, evidentally evolving into Type 1.   Mom's bodyweight dropped from 100 (always been skinny) to 70 pounds now.  mid 50s.  She's taking meds, exercising, fighting it.  Her brother (my uncle) passed away last year from heart/kidney from diabetes.  So this is serious, everyone taking it seriously.

She's doing everything possible from the docs advice.  But I figured getbiggers might know something the docs are too lazy or ignorant to recommend.  Or just something outside the box that helped their relatiev.   I love my mom (as have many getbiggers, as I await the common reponse)  but anything I can share to keep her weight up, please share.   Diets, exercise, anything in the world to add body weight.

Thanks!

[Dr Dutch]

Type 2 doesn't evolve into type 1; I guess you mean it's getting worse and she needs to use insulin.

If she loses weight because of the DM her bloodsugar is way too high. If she's not using insulin now, my advice is to drop the pills and start injecting. A hefty DM 2 is much better treated with insulin shots. Many patients that finally make the transition from pills to needles wished they had done it sooner.

If the bloodsugar is under controll, gaining the weight back won't be a problem. And a combo of muscle training and cardio is best. After training the muscle is much more insulin sensitive, so be careful to eat enough or inject less.

Insulin pumps are getting very good these days. Dunno about insurance over there, they are costly.
Good luck.

[OneMoreRep]

The obvious advice (which I am sure she is adhering to) is to watch her diet strictly, check her blood sugar often (as in daily), take her oral medications and/or insulin to regulate her blood-glucose levels, exercise and be careful with minor infections (cuts, scrapes, open wounds that can become infected very easily and possibly lead to amputations and other complications).

Since I am sure she already does all of that, because judging off of your personality here, I would doubt that she were anything but level headed, I will instead advise something completely different and unconventional that might not interest you, but could possibly work.

The problem with Diabetes involves the underutilization of glucose via too small of an amount of insulin secreted by the pancreas or an overall resistance to insulin by your body's cells that can lead to a hyperglycemic state.

That said, why not place her on a ketogenic diet with very little caloric restriction?  (Now hear me out)

If the problem is the utilization of glucose due to underproduction or resistance of insulin, why not just cut out the middle man all together and have her use fats for energy instead of glucose?

The ketogenic diet forces the body to use fat for energy and by cutting out carbs, her blood glucose levels will decrease (taking care of the diabetes issues, for the most part) and while she can lose weight due to the process, you can simply not restrict her caloric intake and simply watch the type of fats that she consumes in order to keep cholesterol in check (High HDL and low LDL and TriGly).

I'm not diabetic specialist or anything of the sort, but why not propose this to your mother's doctor and see what he thinks.  At the very least, you can present it to him with the facts and if he knocks it down, let us know why.

That said, there are many studies backing the use of a ketogenic diet for the treatment of diabetes.  Weight gain can be a little more difficult, but that can be handled as well.

This is just my opinion, feel free to point out any and all flaws..
"1"

[240 is Back]

Type 2 doesn't evolve into type 1; I guess you mean it's getting worse and she needs to use insulin.

If she loses weight because of the DM her bloodsugar is way too high. If she's not using insulin now, my advice is to drop the pills and start injecting. A hefty DM 2 is much better treated with insulin shots. Many patients that finally make the transition from pills to needles wished they had done it sooner.

If the bloodsugar is under controll, gaining the weight back won't be a problem. And a combo of muscle training and cardio is best. After training the muscle is much more insulin sensitive, so be careful to eat enough or inject less.

Insulin pumps are getting very good these days. Dunno about insurance over there, they are costly.
Good luck.

thanks.  I know literally nothing about it, and parents are pretty shielded about how it's going.  They don't want to face it.  but that 70 number was a "holy crap!" wakeup call today.

I know she is just taking oral meds (not sure what) and I know that she doesn't do daily shots, but that may change.   I welcome the dialogue here, and the change to learn.  Thanks.

[SF1900]

Cant give much advice, because I am not trained in that sort of thing. But I hope everything works out well.

Cute baby  

[Dr Dutch]

I would strongly advice against what 1MR suggests. She hasn't got much fat to burn in the first place, and the liver will burn away muscle to produce glucose (gluconeogenesis)..this is dangerous stuff. Sure he means well though 

[OneMoreRep]

I would strongly advice against what 1MR suggests. She hasn't got much fat to burn in the first place, and the liver will burn away muscle to produce glucose (gluconeogenesis)..this is dangerous stuff. Sure he means well though  

Thank you Doctor!

Now, as a side question, wouldn't a ketogenic diet composed of high caloric and fat intake solve the problem involving the body's use of muscle for glucose production?

In other words, if you feed the body high enough fats via the ketogenic diet, wouldn't it instead use up the fats consumed for ketone production instead, ergo not having to resort to gluconeogenesis, thereby sparing the muscle?

"1"

P.S. I know that most suggest that even with a ketogenic diet, the body needs a small amount of carbs (say 30-50g), couldn't she also simply include a basic carb proponent to her breakfast (say a banana) and attain that basic level of carbs?

[240 is Back]

I love to see the argument here, cases made, etc.  If all else fails, something drastic or unusual might be the way to go, I dunno.  I'll try to get more info, not easy.

[Your Average GymRat]

[Dr Dutch]

Zero carb diet will cause harm. The fat breakdown gives ketones plus glycerol, and the glycerol can be converted to glucose. Unfortunately this amount of glucose will be too small for the body, and glucose is necessary. Thus the body will eat up the muscle and turn it into glucose. The diabetic body will perceive low glucose as too-low glucose and speed up the gluconeogenesis even more. 
Plus the risk of cardiovascular disease is higher with ketonic diets, although some say it isn't.
Plus it's awful to never eat carbs.

[Your Average GymRat]

Type 2 doesn't evolve into type 1; I guess you mean it's getting worse and she needs to use insulin.

If she loses weight because of the DM her bloodsugar is way too high. If she's not using insulin now, my advice is to drop the pills and start injecting. A hefty DM 2 is much better treated with insulin shots. Many patients that finally make the transition from pills to needles wished they had done it sooner.

If the bloodsugar is under controll, gaining the weight back won't be a problem. And a combo of muscle training and cardio is best. After training the muscle is much more insulin sensitive, so be careful to eat enough or inject less.

Insulin pumps are getting very good these days. Dunno about insurance over there, they are costly.
Good luck.

Attention: DO NOT take any advice from this scumbag. He is NOT a physician. He is a compulsive liar hoping to garner some attention with this nonsense.

[doozejooze]

Hope your mom gets better. Its not hard to find a list of diabetic foods on the internet of course but here is a little guideline. Make sure she gets about 30 kcal per kg bodyweight (bodyweight divided by 2.2 then Xs 30). Also, make sure her protein is around 1 to 1.2 per kilogram. Finally, fluids around 30 mL per kilogram. In other words at least a 1000 kcal, 1 liter of fluid, and 50-75 grams protein. It is not reasonable to think a 70 lb woman will eat more than this. BTW, I am doing my clinicals right now for my RD (BS in Food Science, Masters in Nutrition) and these are the guidelines we use.

[240 is Back]

thnks.   She is following the diet (I'll try to see what she eats daily) but I know she seems to always be eating these days.  Wish I knew more.  appreciate it guys!

[The Abdominal Snoman]

She is much too light(thin) to go on this kind of diet to "CURE" type II(which will work for almost anyone who isn't too thin)

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/25/news/la-heb-diabetes-extreme-diet-06252011

But I wonder if she would be better off doing a 16 hour fast to 8 hour calorie window(meaning she should eat around 1000 to 1200 calories in an 8 hour period than fast for 16 hours straight everyday).

How tall is she at 70pounds?

[The Abdominal Snoman]

makes sense.

thanks.

so he should eat some carbs?he will be fine?

hes only feeling bad after pure sugars, after milky icecream hes fine.

Yes he should eat carbs, but white bread, beer and ice cream is something he shouldn't be eating.

[tbombz]

I would strongly advice against what 1MR suggests. She hasn't got much fat to burn in the first place, and the liver will burn away muscle to produce glucose (gluconeogenesis)..this is dangerous stuff. Sure he means well though 

thats complete bullshit. 1morep is right on the money. low carb/no carb diet is what all diabetics should be doing if they are concerned for their health. protein acts as time released blood sugar regulators, so long as ones diet as a moderate amount of protein in it blood sugar will always remain stable and the body will never have to use muscle tissue for gluconeogensis as amino acids will be present in the bloodstream to feed that process. also, the longer one stays on a low carb/no carb diet, the less the body will rely on glucose and the less gluconeogensis will occur. period. 240, get your mom on a no carb/low carb diet. lots of nuts, meats, eggs, oils, and vegetables.  no starches or grains.

[MB_722]

[Coach is Back!]

240, email me. We deal with this quite a bit. Will respond in the morning.

[sync pulse]

If the doctors are advising insulin,...for Christ's sake get her to use insulin...is one of her doctors an endocrinologist?

[Big Chiro Flex]

Attention: DO NOT take any advice from this scumbag. He is NOT a physician. He is a compulsive liar hoping to garner some attention with this nonsense.

How do you know?

[Samourai Pizzacat]

Not too much carbs and the carbs should be wholegrain.

[Rudee]

Not too much carbs and the carbs should be wholegrain.

No. no. no. no. no.  Terrible, terrible advise. 

[Dr Dutch]

Attention: DO NOT take any advice from this scumbag. He is NOT a physician. He is a compulsive liar hoping to garner some attention with this nonsense.

[CT_Muscle]

Plant-based diet with lots of veggies and salads, obviously no added sugars and pick foods with a low glycemic index.

[doozejooze]

I am surprised she isn't on a nasogastric tube feeding with a liquid called Diabetasource or a multi called nephrovite. Anyway, get her to eat something, if she weighs 70 lbs than calories are more important than the source. There is always a Dr.'s ordered sliding insulin scale that can take care of the excess glucose. She just needs to eat. Chicken, fish, veggies, rice, milk, actually anything at this point. If she is eating by mouth (PO) than she is on a CCD (Controlled Carb Diet) but she can always request extra. Is she in a facility?