Author Topic: the fannie and freddie myth= the government caused the bubble  (Read 593 times)

tbombz

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the fannie and freddie myth= the government caused the bubble
« on: December 15, 2012, 03:28:44 PM »
bear stearns, lehman brothers, goldman sachs, aig, standard and poors, moody's, etc

all these are privately owned and all their decisions in regards sub prime lending, credit default swaps, selling highly rated bunk mortgage backed ssecurities, betting against their own products, making false financial reports, predatory lending, setting up incentivves for loans based on volume instead of quality, decreasing underwriting standards, etc etc

all these were decisions made by private enterprise  knowing full well the risks they were taking but also knowing that they would reap massive profits and bonuses in the short run and be able to keep all that money if the risky bets ended up backfiring.


the idea that the government encouragement (not requirement) of fannie and freddie to give loans to the poor somehow caused this entire crisis is just plain malarky.


discuss

tbombz

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Re: the fannie and freddie myth= the government caused the bubble
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 03:42:32 PM »
credit rating agencies = gave good ratings to junk investments (most likely paid off by the banks)
banks = predatory lending in sub prime mortgages because sub prime mortgages have higher interest rates and thus are more valuable
aig = allowing multiple insurance policies to be sold on the same product

etc etc etc...


if someone offers you 100 million in order to make a risky bet that your company is going to go bankrupt; and if it does go bankrupt your not responsible for the debt....   would you take that offer?  100 million dollars no matter what. its a win-win, even if your company goes bankrupt you still have 100million.   and thats what all these people in these big companies did. they saw a way to make huge short term bonuses and profits and didnt care that it was going to end up badly for their company - they got theirs either way.




GigantorX

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Re: the fannie and freddie myth= the government caused the bubble
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2012, 03:46:12 PM »
bear stearns, lehman brothers, goldman sachs, aig, standard and poors, moody's, etc

all these are privately owned and all their decisions in regards sub prime lending, credit default swaps, selling highly rated bunk mortgage backed ssecurities, betting against their own products, making false financial reports, predatory lending, setting up incentivves for loans based on volume instead of quality, decreasing underwriting standards, etc etc

all these were decisions made by private enterprise  knowing full well the risks they were taking but also knowing that they would reap massive profits and bonuses in the short run and be able to keep all that money if the risky bets ended up backfiring.


the idea that the government encouragement (not requirement) of fannie and freddie to give loans to the poor somehow caused this entire crisis is just plain malarky.


discuss

I've never heard anyone said it caused everything.

It was part of the overall problem.

tbombz

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Re: the fannie and freddie myth= the government caused the bubble
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2012, 03:57:02 PM »
there are plenty of free market advocates who claim the entire bubble was caused by government and that without the encouragement of win prime lending there would have bee no bubble.  But the truth is that there was only mild encouragement and it was only responsible for a tiny fraction of the bad loans and the bad loans are only a part of the bigger issue.  The bubble was caused by free interprise acting in its own self interest independent of any government influence.

GigantorX

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Re: the fannie and freddie myth= the government caused the bubble
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2012, 04:45:09 PM »
there are plenty of free market advocates who claim the entire bubble was caused by government and that without the encouragement of win prime lending there would have bee no bubble.  But the truth is that there was only mild encouragement and it was only responsible for a tiny fraction of the bad loans and the bad loans are only a part of the bigger issue.  The bubble was caused by free interprise acting in its own self interest independent of any government influence.

What is "mild encouragement," exactly?

I think the full repeal of the remnants of Glass-Steagal in 1999-2000 was a pretty big fucking sign of encouragement.

The Senate going after and smashing the CFTC/Brooksley Born in the mid 1990's for daring to sound the alarm on derivatives and CDS's was a pretty big 'wink and a nudge' to the financial industry.

The Federal Reserve attempting to play economic God, pumping the banks full of money, artificially low interest rates and the like was a nice little encouragement to blow bubbles.

The actions/words/lies after the financial meltdown was a huge encouragement to the financial entities to continue to fuck us in the ass.

It isn't just some law written on some paper, it's the actions or lack thereof and precedent set by government as well. When you know you can fuck the world, ruin peoples lives, cheat, steal, lie and STILL get a trillion in tax payers dollars, trillions more in Fed printed money, ZERO investigations, no incarcerations, you can write laws and do horrible things with impunity...well, that's a pretty big encouragement by the govt.

Those very institutions were allowed to grow more powerful, for Too Big To Fail, have more influence and gain even more leverage. They weren't punished, they weren't investigated...nothing happened.

It's all you need to know.

tbombz

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Re: the fannie and freddie myth= the government caused the bubble
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2012, 07:33:08 PM »
Your absolutely correct about pretty much all of that.  In the end, the financial giants were allowed to royally fuck the economy. But here's the main point= they were allowed to do it.  Nor forced or encouraged. Allowed.  The only way to orcent it would have been government regulation.  Instead, it was a lack of regulation that allowed it to happen.  Free market economists keep on claiming the bubble was caused by democrats and people who were encouraging sun prime loans.  But that's a scape goat and the real culprit is the private financial firms. 

tbombz

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Re: the fannie and freddie myth= the government caused the bubble
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 07:37:25 PM »
Repeal of glass stegal and preventing regulation of derivatives both helped pave the way for the crash but those are cases of govenment lessening influence, as opposed to the idea that it was govenment interference which caused the crash

whork

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Re: the fannie and freddie myth= the government caused the bubble
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2012, 06:13:49 AM »
Your absolutely correct about pretty much all of that.  In the end, the financial giants were allowed to royally fuck the economy. But here's the main point= they were allowed to do it.  Nor forced or encouraged. Allowed.  The only way to orcent it would have been government regulation.  Instead, it was a lack of regulation that allowed it to happen.  Free market economists keep on claiming the bubble was caused by democrats and people who were encouraging sun prime loans.  But that's a scape goat and the real culprit is the private financial firms. 

True