Federal Reserve wont let Germany see all its gold...lolol

[hazbin]

FR



Fort Knox





In the above photo - Each gold bar weighs about 27.4 pounds and is worth about $160,000

interesting.... so, gold is $365 per ounce? ?? 

[_aj_]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-20/gold-flooding-out-london-switzerland-alarming-rate

This is one of those stories about the gold market that almost seems too wild to be true since the numbers are so extraordinary. According to a Reuters article from earlier today, Australian bank Macquarie has reported that gold is flooding out of London and into Switzerland at a mind-boggling rate. Specifically, 240 tons were exported in May alone and 797 tons during the first half of 2013. That means gold is being exported at a annualized run rate of 17x the 92 tons exported for all of 2012. That’s insane.

Moreover, it seems a lot of that gold is being sent to Switzerland so that the 400oz bars can be melted down into different sizes that are more amenable to Asian sensibilities. So, as many of us suspected all along, what has happened is lobotomized Westerners have sent much of their gold to Asia just as the financial system prepares to melt down again. The fact that the market has absorbed all of this and yet we still have a backwardated market is extremely bullish.

From Reuters:

Aug 19 (Reuters) – Britain’s gold exports to Switzerland surged in the first half of this year, Australian bank Macquarie said on Monday, suggesting bullion being sold out of exchange-traded funds may be heading for Swiss refineries before being sold on in Asia.
 
The UK exported 240 tonnes of gold to Switzerland in May alone, while its exports over the first half of this year totalled 797 tonnes, Macquarie said in a note.
 
In contrast, Britain exported just 92 tonnes of bullion to Switzerland in the whole of last year, it said.
 
“The UK does not have gold mines, so where has it all come from? The obvious source is the gold exchange-traded funds (ETFs), most of which hold their gold holdings in London vaults, and which saw huge outflows in 1H 2013,” Macquarie said.
 
It added: “But a bigger factor, we think, is that the gold bars from ETFs have gone to Switzerland, where most of the world's gold refining capacity is, to be remelted into different size bars and coins and then sold on end consumers, predominantly in Asia, specifically China and India.”

[_bruce_]

whats that?dj181 whole family at the beach or suntanning studio?

 

 

It was a family meeting, codename: Causa 181, which had to be stopped due to "sudden" malnourishment of the participants.

[24KT]

That's just plain stupid. There's no single inherent price of gold, so that it remains constant. There's supply and there's demand, and that is what drives the price of the metal itself.

And when the price is plunged to below 75% of production costs, mining companies shut down or layoff staff... just like Barrick (the world's largest gold miner that recently layed off a full third of their staff at corporate.)

What happens when mines shut down, supply dries up, ...but demand goes to all time highs?

A revaluation MUST occur to even get it out of the ground.

Actually no. Gold is not accepted by all banks and governments as settlement of debt, and even if it is, it is first converted to whatever currency the debt is denominated in, perhaps via the currency that is legal tender in the country in question. Stop lying through your teeth.

Let me make it so simple that even YOU can get it.

The year is 1971.
You can acquire 1oz of gold for $35 Zimbabwe dollars or whatever fiat currency you use & save it as gold,
or you can keep $35 in paper and save fiat paper money

The year is 2013.
That 1 oz of gold is now convertable to $1400 in US paper money or any other form of currency on earth.
Your $35 in Zimbabwe fiat currency is worthless
Your $35 worth of Mexican peso buys very little
Your $35 worth of USA Federal Reserve notes buys you less and less each day, and is racing towards the same purchasing power as your $35 Zimbabwe dollars.

As for the Zimbabwean Dollar... that's a prime example of what happens when you put clueless idiots in charge of an economy – even a small, shitty one. It is great fun to buy trillion dollar bills on eBay for pennies though, but only if you can find them with free shipping.

That small shitty economy you refer to used to have a dollar worth MORE than the US dollar.
$1 Zimbabwe dollar used to be equivalent to $1.45 USD, ...and yes, that is exactly what happens when you put clueless idiots in charge of an economy. And when you have a clueless idiot like Bernanke in charge at the Fed openly printing $85 Billion per month to buy worthless mortgages, not to mention all the secret off book bailouts, ...how long do you think it will be before the USD starts looking an awful lot like the Zimbabwe dollar?

[avxo]

And when the price is plunged to below 75% of production costs, mining companies shut down or layoff staff... just like Barrick (the world's largest gold miner that recently layed off a full third of their staff at corporate.)

What happens when mines shut down, supply dries up, ...but demand goes to all time highs?

A revaluation MUST occur to even get it out of the ground.

Again, there's gold has no inherent value. There's no magical property that gold has that makes it uniquely suited as a store of value.

When the supply dwindles, the price will, inevitably jump – that is simple economics. But alternate stores of values will also become more popular, causing demand to fall. That, too, is simple economics.

Not something I'd expect you to understand though.

Let me make it so simple that even YOU can get it.

That's rich...

The year is 1971.
You can acquire 1oz of gold for $35 Zimbabwe dollars or whatever fiat currency you use & save it as gold,
or you can keep $35 in paper and save fiat paper money

Sidenote: In 1971, the price of gold was fixed by fiat to $35 USD per ounce, as Nixon ended the convertibility of the U.S. Dollar to gold and helped end the Bretton-Woods system.

The year is 2013.
That 1 oz of gold is now convertable to $1400 in US paper money or any other form of currency on earth.
Your $35 in Zimbabwe fiat currency is worthless
Your $35 worth of Mexican peso buys very little
Your $35 worth of USA Federal Reserve notes buys you less and less each day, and is racing towards the same purchasing power as your $35 Zimbabwe dollars.

Oh boy... by the way, what does it mean that $35 1971 dollars would be worth about $470 2013 dollars, whereas the 35 1971 dollars in gold are $1,400 2013 dollars? Please grace us with your amazing understanding of economics.

That small shitty economy you refer to used to have a dollar worth MORE than the US dollar.
$1 Zimbabwe dollar used to be equivalent to $1.45 USD,

Are you fucking stupid or genuinely clueless? The Rhodesian Dollar (the precursor of the Zimbabwean dollar) was, at some point, supposed to be at $1.45 against the USD. Except it wasn't. You see, never was a fully convertible currency and the exchange rate was largely meaningless and not indicative of the real value of the currency.

...and yes, that is exactly what happens when you put clueless idiots in charge of an economy. And when you have a clueless idiot like Bernanke in charge at the Fed openly printing $85 Billion per month to buy worthless mortgages, not to mention all the secret off book bailouts, ...how long do you think it will be before the USD starts looking an awful lot like the Zimbabwe dollar?

Quite long. It's extremely unlikely that the United States will face hyper-inflation or any of the problems that plagued Zimbabwe.

That's not to say that it doesn't have other problems, but those are not nearly as severe and can be fixed.

[24KT]

Again, there's gold has no inherent value. There's no magical property that gold has that makes it uniquely suited as a store of value.

When the supply dwindles, the price will, inevitably jump – that is simple economics. But alternate stores of values will also become more popular, causing demand to fall. That, too, is simple economics.

Not something I'd expect you to understand though.


That's rich...

Only Gold, and gold alone meets all the criteria for money. Paper doesn't, corn doesn't, neither do diamonds or shells, ...or even feathers. ALL of which have been tried at some point or other.

Sidenote: In 1971, the price of gold was fixed by fiat to $35 USD per ounce, as Nixon ended the convertibility of the U.S. Dollar to gold and helped end the Bretton-Woods system.

Exactly! The end of Bretton-Woods saw the escalation of the theft of our wealth & labour.

Oh boy... by the way, what does it mean that $35 1971 dollars would be worth about $470 2013 dollars, whereas the 35 1971 dollars in gold are $1,400 2013 dollars? Please grace us with your amazing understanding of economics.[/b][/glow][/size]

It means Gold has proven itself to be inflation-proof.
It means if you're smart, ...you'll save in physical gold which increases in value & purchasing power over time.

Are you fucking stupid or genuinely clueless?

Funny, ...I was just pondering the same thing about you  

It's extremely unlikely that the United States will face hyper-inflation or any of the problems that plagued Zimbabwe.

That's not to say that it doesn't have other problems, but those are not nearly as severe and can be fixed.

        You've got to be kidding me? The hyperinflation is baked into the cake.
Your statements reveal someone who simply wants to troll and waste my time, ...or someone woefully ignorant as far as gold goes. Either way... I've had enough of you.

OK, I'm done fartzing around with you. Those who know what's going on, and who know they need to be acquiring gold, and want to know about a way to acquire a perpetual supply of currency grade gold at no out-of-pocket cost, are welcome to join me on our webinar taking place this evening at 9pm EDT

[syntaxmachine]

1. Gold may well increase in price, for reasons already well understood in the relevant literature (I linked to a piece of that literature in my last post in this thread). If nothing else, then, it may represent an excellent speculative vehicle -- presumably via futures.

2. However, investment-wise, gold clocks in a drastically inferior performance to stocks over the putative time period relevant to gold bugs, the long term: in the post Gold Standard era 1976-2012, stocks have a 6.7% real return, gold a 2.5% real return.

3. As to the matter of inflation hedging: as avxo astutely observed (in slightly different words), gold has a positive real rate of return. But a genuine inflation hedge would have a real return of zero. The price of gold as such is not driven by inflation, from which it follows that it is not a hedge against inflation.

4. Finally, P(USD collapse) is, based on all available evidence, extraordinarily low. There is literally zero evidence of any significant inflation on the horizon -- plenty of evidence to the contrary, in fact -- let alone hyperinflation such that the USD will somehow implode. Incurring the opportunity cost of collecting shiny rocks given this state of affairs is, it should go without saying, utterly irrational.

[24KT]

USA Debt Dilemma

The American economy is going to have a harsh reckoning, the more they print to stave it off and buy up worthless MBS, toxic crap that no one else wants, the worse it's going to be. The bigger they are, ...the harder they fall.

[The Showstoppa]

USA Debt Dilemma

The American economy is going to have a harsh reckoning, the more they print to stave it off and buy up worthless MBS, toxic crap that no one else wants, the worse it's going to be. The bigger they are, ...the harder they fall.

Hey look.  Wonky eye is back. 

[avxo]

Only Gold, and gold alone meets all the criteria for money. Paper doesn't, corn doesn't, neither do diamonds or shells, ...or even feathers. ALL of which have been tried at some point or other.

That's a remarkable statement to make. Can you tell us what these magical criteria are that only gold and nothing else fulfills? Because as far as I know, the real and important criteria for a money is that the money is generally accepted as a medium of exchange, is easily divisible and easily distinguished.

And let's assume, for the sake of argument, that basing a monetary system on a precious metal is a good idea. The question then becomes why gold? Why not platinum? Or Rhenium? Or Osmium? Or, hell, Palladium? Just because gold was used in the past as a store of value and the basis of monetary systems doesn't mean much.

Oh, and for the record, posting crappy youtube videos doesn't help your case – it only serves to highlight how shallow and inadequate your knowledge in a field you purport to be an expert in is and how poorly you are able to articulate your thoughts and positions.

It means Gold has proven itself to be inflation-proof.

Uhm... so, the price of gold between 1971 and 2013 has outpaced inflation by a truly massive amount and you think that means it's inflation-proof? Seriously? How does that even compute?

And to add to that 'inflation-proof' is a big and very bold statement. At best, gold is a hedge against inflation, but that hedge only works if the assumptions you made hold. Do they? I suggest that the evidence suggests that they do not; if they did, gold would be at approximately $470 per troy ounce. Not at the ridiculous $1,400.

It means if you're smart, ...you'll save in physical gold which increases in value & purchasing power over time.

If you're smart, you aren't buying gold at $1,400 an ounce, you aren't buying gold by the gram and you don't listen to someone with no background in economics whose only skill seems to be to parrot the marketing material her handlers give her and incessantly posting youtube videos.

Your statements reveal someone who simply wants to troll and waste my time, ...or someone woefully ignorant as far as gold goes. Either way... I've had enough of you.

Let's get the facts straight, shall we?

You didn't know what millesimal fineness represented, and insisted that it meant the gold was 999.9% pure, even after I pointed out that if your assertion were true, it would mean that a one ounce gold bar would contain 9.999 ounces of gold. And you're calling me woefully ignorant?

You continue to suggest that buying gold in tiny, tiny amounts is the better deal despite the fact that I have shown, you using mathematics and hard numbers, that buying gold by the gram is not only not cost effective, but exceedingly stupid. And you're calling me woefully ignorant?

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the person who fancies herself qualified to explain the intricacies of investing in gold and wants to help you make those decisions. A person with no understanding of economics, a tenuous grasp of mathematics and a very warped view of reality.

OK, I'm done fartzing around with you. Those who know what's going on,
 and who know they need to be acquiring gold, and want to know about a way to acquire a perpetual supply of currency grade gold at no out-of-pocket cost, are welcome to join me on our webinar taking place this evening at 9pm EDT

Yes... people should join this webinar to learn how to buy "currency grade gold" (whatever that is). They will, no doubt, be told how it's a brilliant idea to buy gold one 1-gram plastic card at a time and, in the process, pay almost twice the amount per troy ounce than the cost of a single one ounce gold Maple Leaf.

Funny, ...I was just pondering the same thing about you  

... that's rich, especially coming from someone with the IQ of tepid bathwater.

[syntaxmachine]

Briefly stated, gold bugger and other retardates' claims of "printing press" exorbitance are literally false -- no such printing is going on whatever. What the Fed is doing is exchanging reserves for MBS and other such securities with banks at market rates (no net change in banks' values).

Here's the rate of growth of the money supply, which has followed virtually the same trajectory through the crisis period:



Here's the velocity of money, a variable some think more important than money supply in feeding inflation:



Meanwhile, the spread between 30 year treasuries and TIPS (treasury inflation protected securities) -- a metric for investors' inflation expectations -- was a shockingly low 2.35% at a recent auction.

Finally, the Fed has recently announced the imminent reduction of QE.

The only response of the gold bugger / hyperinflationist is to claim that somehow, the gradual conversion of excess reserves on bank balance sheets into money will magically incite a collapse of the dollar, a bald assertion made without the slightest bit of quantitative analysis, and one which ignores countervailing factors: that the Fed will increase interest rates, that the Fed can hold onto the exchanged assets as long as needed, that a significant amount of that new money will simply be counteracting deflation, etc.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

[a_ahmed]

USA is screwed lol

[Teutonic Knight]

USA is screwed lol

And yours Egypt 

[24KT]

USA is screwed lol

Pretty much, ...but it's no laughing matter.
I'm hopin' & prayin' we can help as many people as possible before the inevitable happens.
And at least facilitate a smoother transition during the reset.

If you think things are bad now with 47 million on food stamps,
...you don't even want to imagine what it's going to be like later.

The more people we can help to NOT have to turn to the government in times of crises, the less burden is placed on local, state, and federal governments. Lord knows each one has been stretched to the limits already. I don't even want to think of the carnage if Larry Summers becomes the new Fed chair after Bernanke.

[avxo]

Pretty much, ...but it's no laughing matter.
I'm hopin' & prayin' we can help as many people as possible before the inevitable happens.
And at least facilitate a smoother transition during the reset.

A smoother transition into what? An economy where people pay for stuff by trading little plastic cards with one gram of gold inside and can't get change?

You are insane.

[Psychopath]

Worst case scenario, a draft is put in effect, and a third world war would patch things right up.

It would also reduce world population , and create jobs to repair the epic infrastructure damage.

Don't worry, it's all going to be ok.

[SOMEPARTS]

Worst case scenario, a draft is put in effect, and a third world war would patch things right up.

It would also reduce world population , and create jobs to repair the epic infrastructure damage.

Don't worry, it's all going to be ok.

Wars ARE being fought now...economic and informational wars. The USA is losing because we have had all the power and stability to control the world currency and show the world how to trade....but we are squandering it by allowing those in power here to not follow our own rules.

If there is a huge ground war overseas it won't be at the direction of a centralized US gov't as we know it - or at least not with any standard of living left here. There's too much technology in war now so no need for that type of inefficiency...in fact I doubt anybody would go just based on say so - the gov't would have to imprison and deport masses of people here just to get them to go to war. Our armed forces are currently mercenary in nature. Nobody wants to die for gov't and Wall St. and somebody else's money.

Much more likely is civil war.