Is Progressive Overload Required to make Gains?

[TheGrinch]

Genetics.....its that simple



The longer i work out the more i realize all these rep schemes, overloads, whatever...all bullshit.
Your body responds to simple weight lifting, or it doesnt...when it doesnt, then people start racking their brain with schemes and crazy things. It never works. Thats where trainers come in with theories and supplements and try to capitalize on people who cant make gainsq

QFT

wish someone told me this 20 years ago before I destroyed my body trying to get bigger... never worked no matter the workout, the food, the supplements or even the AAS... never figured there was such a thing as a non-responder until after 20 years I realized I never responded to shit...

[BBSSchlemiel]

I've seen some really weak jacked guys and I've seen some really strong skinny guys. So it's always confusing hearing the progressive overload is required to gain mass.

Yes. Otherwise you could gain muscle benching the bar forever.

[Lustral]

yes I think it is necessary. but i don't think has to be strictly heavier weight, could be more reps with same weight, shorter rest between sets etc, anything that makes the muscle work harder. but logically, it stands to reason that if you just keep working the muscle to the same degree it has no reason to get any bigger to complete the same task.

I agree with you and Kohl. I gained better since dropping notion of "progressive overload" (constant weight/rep increase) and now I do volume with good weight to a sick extent where I do 60-80 set workouts with medium to heavy weights. Rest is minimal, supersets/triple sets are nonstop. Strength training is there for exercises I feel good with (did 245kg x 6 hex bar dl for 3 sets other night) but mostly switch between 2/3 exercises medium weight no break - no injuries, more gains and suits my impatient personality.

[Van_Bilderass]

To make progress something with your training has to progress. If we are talking training induced gains.

Many people often say this or that program is now giving them great gains, even after already having trained for 20 years. The reality is often that jack shit is happening or they are simply regaining size they already had at some earlier time. Most of the time all of us are standing still, losing or regaining after having lost muscle.

Big change happens when there is a big change in stimulus, whether training, food or drugs. These things can only be increased so much before you stand still and have nowhere further to go.

Say if Phil Heath says he's doing a new training program, for example lowering load and increasing volume and "intensity" instead and is making great gains, and has come to the realization that load on the bar doesn't matter. It wouldn't be true as he hasn't made any real gains for years. But you hear things like this from pros often.

[oldschoolfan]

i agree with wes  as ive gotten older,  i care less and less about the amount of weight i use.

its all about intensity , supersetting now and controlling the weight and getting a pump.

in my 20's  i was obsessed with my strength and going up in weight and reps every workout.

cardio and diet keeps me lean, i doubt i will ever go back to training super heavy again .what is funny is i see alot of guys at my gym who look like

utter shit, all they do is lift every day and do zero cardio. 

[Van_Bilderass]

i agree with wes  as ive gotten older,  i care less and less about the amount of weight i use.

its all about intensity , supersetting now and controlling the weight and getting a pump.

in my 20's  i was obsessed with my strength and going up in weight and reps every workout.

cardio and diet keeps me lean, i doubt i will ever go back to training super heavy again .what is funny is i see alot of guys at my gym who look like

utter shit, all they do is lift every day and do zero cardio. 

Are you now more muscular than you ever were at any point in your life?

[Lustral]

To make progress something with your training has to progress. If we are talking training induced gains.

Many people often say this or that program is now giving them great gains, even after already having trained for 20 years. The reality is often that jack shit is happening or they are simply regaining size they already had at some earlier time. Most of the time all of us are standing still, losing or regaining after having lost muscle.

Big change happens when there is a big change in stimulus, whether training, food or drugs. These things can only be increased so much before you stand still and have nowhere further to go.

Say if Phil Heath says he's doing a new training program, for example lowering load and increasing volume and "intensity" instead and is making great gains, and has come to the realization that load on the bar doesn't matter. It wouldn't be true as he hasn't made any real gains for years. But you hear things like this from pros often.

I ate same food, took same "supps", trained same way for half a year without gains then randomly gained 2kg muscle. In past 2 years I have gained, give or take, 5-6kg muscle. It has been random, unrelated to food and generally unrelated to cycle, and largely 1-2kg in a short timeframe and then again I am stuck with 6 months of stagnation.

Don't ask me to explain it cos I had tried upping calories before and I gained fat, I rested more I got bored. It just happened with other variables being the same.

[_aj_]

I ate same food, took same "supps", trained same way for half a year without gains then randomly gained 2kg muscle. In past 2 years I have gained, give or take, 5-6kg muscle. It has been random, unrelated to food and generally unrelated to cycle, and largely 1-2kg in a short timeframe and then again I am stuck with 6 months of stagnation.

Don't ask me to explain it cos I had tried upping calories before and I gained fat, I rested more I got bored. It just happened with other variables being the same.

Bunk gear.

[Lustral]

Bunk gear.

Lol. Same juice. Plateaus happen.

Plus, i dont overdo juice. Never will. I have a set limit when on and have gained what i can and accept it.

[che]

No

[Lustral]

Bunk gear.

You also have to take into account that since March/April my gf has been hospitalised 4 times with bad illness, that means 4 weeks where I spent 5/6 hours travelling and more staying beside her in hospital not to mention the stress involved. You think you could gain with that going on...lest care about gains? I went to the gym to relieve stress those times but on 3 hours sleep and spending my days making food for her, visiting her and doing my own work/study you think you could make gains?

Fuck off with bunk gear.

[njflex]

You also have to take into account that since March/April my gf has been hospitalised 4 times with bad illness, that means 4 weeks where I spent 5/6 hours travelling and more staying beside her in hospital not to mention the stress involved. You think you could gain with that going on...lest care about gains? I went to the gym to relieve stress those times but on 3 hours sleep and spending my days making food for her, visiting her and doing my own work/study you think you could make gains?

Fuck off with bunk gear.

hope she's well,,good dude right here...

[Hulkotron]

You also have to take into account that since March/April my gf has been hospitalised 4 times with bad illness, that means 4 weeks where I spent 5/6 hours travelling and more staying beside her in hospital not to mention the stress involved. You think you could gain with that going on...lest care about gains? I went to the gym to relieve stress those times but on 3 hours sleep and spending my days making food for her, visiting her and doing my own work/study you think you could make gains?

Fuck off with bunk gear.

[_aj_]

You also have to take into account that since March/April my gf has been hospitalised 4 times with bad illness, that means 4 weeks where I spent 5/6 hours travelling and more staying beside her in hospital not to mention the stress involved. You think you could gain with that going on...lest care about gains? I went to the gym to relieve stress those times but on 3 hours sleep and spending my days making food for her, visiting her and doing my own work/study you think you could make gains?

Fuck off with bunk gear.

Sorry about your girlfriend. I will try to remember to walk on eggshells around you and that you don't appreciate jokes.

[Lustral]

hope she's well,,good dude right here...

What grates me is she had surgery scheduled for June... postponed cos surgeuon took holiday (so why schedule it then?). Then September surgery... cancelled... no reason given. Now November. When she fell ill 2 weeks ago I couldn't bare the ordeal of her in A&E again (non stop tests til a consultant appears 5 days later) so I medicated her and called a consultant I know and alleviated pain... then guess what... she is 1/100 with allergic reaction to medication.

She has rash now and itch and, not to be a dick but I titty fucked her and said it was to help alleviate itch. I am a human after all  


@AJ I was more pissed you'd think I took fake juice tbh  Sorry if tetchy asshole there.

[oldschoolfan]

hey van , i am more leaner now , than i was before , i do a ton of cardio    and watch what i eat more closely

this is coming from a guy who fucking hated cardio and refused to do it m when i was in my 20's  back then i could low carb do weights and get lean

but as i have gotten older than dosnt work anymore,   but my priorities are different now, i dont care if i am the biggest guy in the gym.   when i was in my 20's

i wanted to be the biggest  and strongest,  but as i have gotten older i know that will never happen, there will always be someone bigger stronger, and better genetics

i would rather be lean and look good .   and enjoy my weight workouts, than be obsessed with constantly getting bigger and stronger .   

[local hero]

To make progress something with your training has to progress. If we are talking training induced gains.

Many people often say this or that program is now giving them great gains, even after already having trained for 20 years. The reality is often that jack shit is happening or they are simply regaining size they already had at some earlier time. Most of the time all of us are standing still, losing or regaining after having lost muscle.

Big change happens when there is a big change in stimulus, whether training, food or drugs. These things can only be increased so much before you stand still and have nowhere further to go.

Say if Phil Heath says he's doing a new training program, for example lowering load and increasing volume and "intensity" instead and is making great gains, and has come to the realization that load on the bar doesn't matter. It wouldn't be true as he hasn't made any real gains for years. But you hear things like this from pros often.

Exactly... I keep saying this over and over and the same morons claim to still be making gains after 20yrs etc etc..

You hit the nail on the head, your 'gaining' muscle you've lost, your improving body composition, unless you've been training utterly wrong for 20yrs and eating like an anorexic, only more drugs will allow you to gain anything, and even then, youl max out on steroids, move onto slin/gh and youl max out on them too

[chaos]

Like lifting weights is rocket science.