Haney vs. Yates : Helsinki 1992

[nicorulez]

ND, agreed, not the best pic but there were a lot of others where he looked inhuman.  However, since we are talking about Haney, and I know you like him.  I think you will appreciate this shot.  If he had slightly bigger legs, no one would have ever beaten him.......I am mistaken, I think he was pretty much undefeated except the 1983 Mr. Olympia.  ND correct me if I am wrong.  However, he would have owned Doz over and over again.

[nicorulez]

Hulkster....I am sorry but Haney would own Coleman, also.  If he took the amount of stuff that Yates and Coleman took the last ten years, he would have been beyond sick.  As it is, he is still the greatest Mr. Olympia champion to the present time (Coleman included).  Truly dominated the 1991 show.  He was over 250 and his waist was like 30-32 inches.  Insane symmetry and size 

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND, agreed, not the best pic but there were a lot of others where he looked inhuman.  However, since we are talking about Haney, and I know you like him.  I think you will appreciate this shot.  If he had slightly bigger legs, no one would have ever beaten him.......I am mistaken, I think he was pretty much undefeated except the 1983 Mr. Olympia.  ND correct me if I am wrong.  However, he would have owned Doz over and over again.

I've said it before if they met in 1992 Haney would beat him again , in 93 Haney would have lost .

[natural al]

ND, agreed, not the best pic but there were a lot of others where he looked inhuman.  However, since we are talking about Haney, and I know you like him.  I think you will appreciate this shot.  If he had slightly bigger legs, no one would have ever beaten him.......I am mistaken, I think he was pretty much undefeated except the 1983 Mr. Olympia.  ND correct me if I am wrong.  However, he would have owned Doz over and over again.

ahhhh....ND isn't the only one who knows his history my friend...Haney lost to Mohomad Makkaway and Rocky defrerro-might be wrong on the spelling there- during the 1983 grand prix circuit, he also lost to Samir at the Olympia.  The only O I'd say Haney really lost after his initial win was the 1990 edition, which was "drug tested"-Labrada, Shawn and Christian all had him beat on that day..

I think the sickest pics of Haney are from the 84 or 85 Olympia, he looked really dry and grainy in those...

[Hulkster]

Hulkster....I am sorry but Haney would own Coleman, also.  If he took the amount of stuff that Yates and Coleman took the last ten years, he would have been beyond sick.  As it is, he is still the greatest Mr. Olympia champion to the present time (Coleman included).  Truly dominated the 1991 show.  He was over 250 and his waist was like 30-32 inches.  Insane symmetry and size 

I don't know about owning coleman, but as good as Lee was in 1991, he suffered from "Dorian Yates syndrome":

his torso/back were way too big for his arms:



its really, really, noticable in some shots.

Still, Lee at the 91 show was amazing: tough to beat.

[nicorulez]

ND, I agree by 1993 Yates was the new breed.  It is unfortunate that he peaked at that condition in only one show.  In 1995 and beyond, he would have gotten his ass handed to him by Haney.  You say Haney would have gotten beaten, but it would really be interesting to see the different doses of gear these two had to take to get to a siimilar level.  Do you think Haney abused GH like todays pros.  Was insulin even used by BB back in the early nineties?  I am 35 now and I don't remember any of the hardcore guys in the gym who used insulin back in the early 90's.  GH was just getting vogue. However, for all I know, the pro's may have been all over it.

[BroadStreetBruiser]

can we not say "doz" anymore, you people aren't fucking friends with the guy and it sounds stupid

[knny187]

I love bringing Ronnies name into Any topic with the Dorian in the Title!

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND, I agree by 1993 Yates was the new breed.  It is unfortunate that he peaked at that condition in only one show.  In 1995 and beyond, he would have gotten his ass handed to him by Haney.  You say Haney would have gotten beaten, but it would really be interesting to see the different doses of gear these two had to take to get to a siimilar level.  Do you think Haney abused GH like todays pros.  Was insulin even used by BB back in the early nineties?  I am 35 now and I don't remember any of the hardcore guys in the gym who used insulin back in the early 90's.  GH was just getting vogue. However, for all I know, the pro's may have been all over it.

Yates best years were 91 , 92 , 93 and 1995 , Peter McGough said Dorian's all time best condition exlcuding the B&W Horton pics was the 1995 Olympia he was 255lbs and hard as nails , you make a great point about Haney not having the advantages of some of the newer Pros , I don't recall isulin or hearing about the use of it until the mid 1990s as far as GH thats another thing I heard of in the 80s but I'm not sure if anyone was taking it back then , Haney had the better upper body with the exception of his lower back and Yates had the better lower body but personally Haney's aesthetics add to his arsenal thats something Yates didn't have and Yates had an edge on conditioning , so they go tit-for-tat , its interesting that Yates won the musculairty round at the 91 Olympia despite being lighter than Haney , but either way like Shawn Perine once said it would have been great if Haney did decide to keep competing it would have been some epic Sergio/Arnold wars .

[NarcissisticDeity]

I love bringing Ronnies name into Any topic with the Dorian in the Title!

Hulkster found his new avatar .

[nicorulez]

ND, I know you and Hulkster always go on and on about Dorian versus Ronnie....very entertaining by the way.  I like Ronnie 2003, but I can see where you dig Dorian in 2003 and 2005.  Regardless, what do you think would happen if an alltime best Haney took on a 1998 Coleman.  I am intrigued.  Hulkster, please chime in as your responses are always enlightening.  I feel that Haney is the first and only bodybuilder in the last twenty years who had the aesthetics of the old guys (Arnold, Sergio), but improved mass (weight of 250 or so, yet he looked more tight than Dex). 

[Hulkster]

ND, I know you and Hulkster always go on and on about Dorian versus Ronnie....very entertaining by the way.  I like Ronnie 2003, but I can see where you dig Dorian in 2003 and 2005.  Regardless, what do you think would happen if an alltime best Haney took on a 1998 Coleman.  I am intrigued.  Hulkster, please chime in as your responses are always enlightening.  I feel that Haney is the first and only bodybuilder in the last twenty years who had the aesthetics of the old guys (Arnold, Sergio), but improved mass (weight of 250 or so, yet he looked more tight than Dex). 

It would be close, but haney would lose.

At their best, they are similar:

Both have ridiculous tapers.
Both have insane backs
both have tiny waists but shitty abs.
Both have awesome chests


BUT:

Ronnie has better arms
Ronnie has better quads.
ronnie does have a slightly better back.

I can give you a (totally unbiased) photo essay comparison if you wish

[nicorulez]

Go for it Hulkster.  That would be enlightening.  I think it would be more fun if ND would chime in also. 

[peteK]

Well here's my two cents on the entire Haney/Yates/Coleman discussion. I think that it is impossible to decide who would've won the 1993 contest had Haney not decided to retire. (Assuming that Haney won the 1992 title over Yates) First of all because we don't know how Haney's physique would've reacted to the higher doses of GH and steroids that he would've needed to compete with Yates. Maybe it would've made him bigger and better than ever, but maybe it would've made him lose his aesthetic shape, like Coleman did. Don't forget that in his prime Coleman's lines were very similar to Haney's.
Apart from that I think using photo evidence to compare physiques it a tricky thing, some bodybuilders look more impressive in pictures, while others look better in real life. Let's be honest, if we were to decide who the Mr. Olympia in the years 1993-1999 should be we'd probably all vote for Paul Dillet. Ronnie's best shape was, in my opinion, between 1997 and 2001. Yet, in his 1997 shape he lost to Yates, while it is save to assume that in his current (2005) shape he would've defeated Yates. Still most people here would agree that the 1997 Coleman looked better than the 2005 Coleman.
So what I'm trying to say is that there really is no way to decide who would've won. Personally, based on photo evidence from the 1991 Olympia, which was already close, and the assumption that Haney would not have been able to hold onto his aesthetics, I think Yates would've won the 1993 Olympia.

[GMCtrk]

I posted this back shot and that one from 2003 and he is just leaps & bounds better in 98

That's probably Coleman's best back shot ever. Check out the conditioning in the lower back, amazing, but not quite to Doz's level. Coleman feel victim to the mass game, simply adding mass for the sake of adding mass with no regards to lines, proportion, or conditioning. Quite a shame.

I would really love to see some pictures of how much Coleman progressed in the 97 Offseason. I contend that Coleman, aesthetically speaking was at his all-time best right after the 97O, around 245-250lbs. How much did he improve up to the 98O? Coleman looked great in '97, yet still was 9 places behind Yates at the O.

[GMCtrk]

ND, I agree by 1993 Yates was the new breed.  It is unfortunate that he peaked at that condition in only one show.  In 1995 and beyond, he would have gotten his ass handed to him by Haney.  You say Haney would have gotten beaten, but it would really be interesting to see the different doses of gear these two had to take to get to a siimilar level.  Do you think Haney abused GH like todays pros.  Was insulin even used by BB back in the early nineties?  I am 35 now and I don't remember any of the hardcore guys in the gym who used insulin back in the early 90's.  GH was just getting vogue. However, for all I know, the pro's may have been all over it.

92 would have been touch and go, by past 93, there is simply no way Haney could have matched Dorian. Not in training or on the stage. Just like Coleman in 2002, Yates actually far overdepeleted for the 92O, so we had to wait 1 more year before he "shook the world." Yates condition @269lbs in the black and whites 3 weeks out (not to mention on contest day) surpasses anything Haney ever displayed.

[asani]

ronnie is clearly better than lee! imo haney is very overrated- great back and great condition, thats it.








thats Orville Burke

[MB]

Haney retired in '91 with seemingly a lot left in the tank.  '92 would have been close, but I think Dorian would have emerged by '93.  I prefer Lee, Dorian, and Ronnie's look at <250 lbs.  That would have been the ultimate show to have those 3 on stage together at that bodyweight. 

[nicorulez]

GMC, we agree to disagree.  I agree that Dorian may have gotten bigger than Haney by 1993, but who is to say that Haney wouldn't have started to slam the GH and insulin to keep up.  Haney has a better shape; he can get large as he outweighed Yates by 10 pounds in 1991.  He has a smaller waist, better chest, equal upper back, and better shoulders.  Yates had bigger legs and calves, but his legs look like logs with no cuts.  Yates, I agree, was sick in the B&W photos, but they were three weeks before the contest.  He wasn't as good at the contest.  Moreover, I recall pics of Dennis James looking unbeatable pre-contest; it never panned out.  Yates after his bicep injury would have gotten smoked by Haney or Coleman.  You can't win the Mr. Olympia against guys who are as large almost (Haney) or larger with better proportions. In 1993, Yates would have been tough to beat, but you do not know what Haney would have done to keep up.  Tell me Dorian didn't slam some major GH, insulin, and steroids as he gained 30 pounds between 1991 and 1993.  Coleman did a similar thing when he went from 255-260 to 286 for the 2003.  Then again, neither Coleman or Yates ever had close to Haney's taper and aesthetics. 

[Van_Bilderass]

Tell me Dorian didn't slam some major GH, insulin, and steroids as he gained 30 pounds between 1991 and 1993. 

According to Duchaine "Dorian was reluctant to take the large dosages of GH some other pro's were using".

[GMCtrk]

GMC, we agree to disagree.  I agree that Dorian may have gotten bigger than Haney by 1993, but who is to say that Haney wouldn't have started to slam the GH and insulin to keep up.  Haney has a better shape; he can get large as he outweighed Yates by 10 pounds in 1991.  He has a smaller waist, better chest, equal upper back, and better shoulders.  Yates had bigger legs and calves, but his legs look like logs with no cuts.  Yates, I agree, was sick in the B&W photos, but they were three weeks before the contest.  He wasn't as good at the contest.  Moreover, I recall pics of Dennis James looking unbeatable pre-contest; it never panned out.  Yates after his bicep injury would have gotten smoked by Haney or Coleman.  You can't win the Mr. Olympia against guys who are as large almost (Haney) or larger with better proportions. In 1993, Yates would have been tough to beat, but you do not know what Haney would have done to keep up.  Tell me Dorian didn't slam some major GH, insulin, and steroids as he gained 30 pounds between 1991 and 1993.  Coleman did a similar thing when he went from 255-260 to 286 for the 2003.  Then again, neither Coleman or Yates ever had close to Haney's taper and aesthetics. 

I don't think yates "slammed major GH, insulin, or steroids". The reason for the HUGE jump from 92 --> 93 is that Yates learned how to bring himself down in a matter where he didnt lose his mass, this is straight from his mouth on the radio talk show. Yates would have been 255-257 in 92 had he not over-depleted. What makes you think Haney wasn't maga dosing?

[nicorulez]

No Dorian GH gut.  Dorian would not have been 255-260 in 1992.  He was barely 240 in 1991.  He gained the mass because he learned the art of juicing better.  He also trained heavy and strict.  He ate a ton.  Taken together, he got amazing in 1993, but he was not so in 1992.  Haney was around 245-250 since early-mid 1980.  GH was not as popular then.  Also, the last time Dorian had a 30-32 inch waist was when he was 16.  Doesn't matter since Coleman has taken the "freak" thing to a different planet.  Wait fifteen years and I gurantee you that Dorian's best shape will be average in the new breed of myostatin inhibited, juiced to the gills BB's.  Marvel comics will have nothing on the Mr. O.

[DEFCON]

What makes you think Haney wasn't maga dosing?

Haney is a good Christian. He would never do that.

[Ex Coelis]

In his Olympia workout video, Haney said it wasnt about steroids, it was thanks to Weider MegaMultiVitamins - mega doses of MegaMultiVitamins

[GMCtrk]

No Dorian GH gut.  Dorian would not have been 255-260 in 1992.  He was barely 240 in 1991.  He gained the mass because he learned the art of juicing better.  He also trained heavy and strict.  He ate a ton.  Taken together, he got amazing in 1993, but he was not so in 1992.  Haney was around 245-250 since early-mid 1980.  GH was not as popular then.  Also, the last time Dorian had a 30-32 inch waist was when he was 16.  Doesn't matter since Coleman has taken the "freak" thing to a different planet.  Wait fifteen years and I gurantee you that Dorian's best shape will be average in the new breed of myostatin inhibited, juiced to the gills BB's.  Marvel comics will have nothing on the Mr. O.

apparently you know more than Dorian himself Striaght out of his fucking mouth, he would have been in 93O size and condition at the 92O had he come in properly