George Bush and Ronald Reagan "debate" illegal immigration

[Straw Man]

[Pray_4_War]

Great...but at that time they didn't have the ability to see what a shitty mess that those ideas made.  Now with the benefit of hindsight we do.  They even ended up legalizing a bunch of them and it only exacerbated the problem.  There is one indisputable fact that we must accept.  If you don't stop the flood of illegals coming here every single day, any "solutions" that you cook up to deal with the ones that are already here will be a waste of time.

It's a simple idea really.  If you are in a sinking boat you don't spend time dicking around debating what to do with the water that you have taken on.  You have to plug the hole first.  The time for compassion and sob stories is over.  They knowingly came here against our laws.  They chose to do it so when bad things happen it's on them, not us.

[Straw Man]

Great...but at that time they didn't have the ability to see what a shitty mess that those ideas made.  Now with the benefit of hindsight we do.  They even ended up legalizing a bunch of them and it only exacerbated the problem.  There is one indisputable fact that we must accept.  If you don't stop the flood of illegals coming here every single day, any "solutions" that you cook up to deal with the ones that are already here will be a waste of time.

It's a simple idea really.  If you are in a sinking boat you don't spend time dicking around debating what to do with the water that you have taken on.  You have to plug the hole first.  The time for compassion and sob stories is over.  They knowingly came here against our laws.  They chose to do it so when bad things happen it's on them, not us.

specifically state "the problem" and provide proof just so I know what you're expecting agreement on

should be easy enough since you've said it's indisputable

[Pray_4_War]

Learn to read and you'll have your answer.

[Straw Man]

Learn to read and you'll have your answer.

so far nothing I've read from you answers those two simple questions

btw - I'm not in favor of amnesty or anything like that.

I'm just looking for some clarification and proof of what you say is an indisputable fact

[Pray_4_War]

so far nothing I've read from you answers those two simple questions

btw - I'm not in favor of amnesty or anything like that.

I'm just looking for some clarification and proof of what you say is an indisputable fact

Just think hard.  You can do it

[Straw Man]

Just think hard.  You can do it

Are they here taking that lettuce picking job away from you?

[Pray_4_War]

Are they here taking that lettuce picking job away from you?

So all Mexicans do in the United States is pick lettuce?  Who is the racist now?

Just a couple of quick things that center around my own narrow experience with illegal Mexicans.  I had my house broken into twice in my life.  Both times by an illegal alien from Mexico we found out when they were later caught (once while they were still in the house).  I was rear-ended on the freeway once by....you guessed it an illegal alien from Mexico, no insurance of course.  My brand new car got smashed to hell and was never the same after that.  My dad also got hit by an illegal several years ago, no insurance.  Do you think that kind of thing helps or hurts auto insurance rates?  A good friend of mine had her identity stolen.  Guess what is a major factor driving the identity theft industry?  When you go to the ER in my state with a medical emergency guess who is clogging up the lobby and creating long wait times. You see they can't go to a regular doctor when their kid gets the flu because they have no insurance.  When they don't pay their hospital bills do you think that makes our hospital bills more expensive or less expensive?  Then you factor in national security which is kind of a big issue in the age of terrorism and nuclear proliferation.  Do I need to go on?

[headhuntersix]

That's one guy....one guy multiplied by how many. You libs don't seem to get that every country in the world is allowed to secure its borders. I'm for a big fucking wall. Anybody ever see the that sci fi flick  "monsters" about the giant alien monsters that invade central America and move their way up to the US. Its an allegorical film ...but we end up building this massive wall...you only see it for a second...that's what we need. Kinda like the wall in Escape from New York. Why is this fucking hard. Then you can decide how to deal with folks coming and going, but like P4W said....can't fix a leaky boat etc.

[Pray_4_War]

Those are just the issues that just quickly come into my mind.  Not a complete list of my experiences.

I'd really rather people not pretend that millions of people flooding here illegally is no big deal and is essentially a victimless crime.

[Straw Man]

So all Mexicans do in the United States is pick lettuce?  Who is the racist now?

Just a couple of quick things that center around my own narrow experience with illegal Mexicans.  I had my house broken into twice in my life.  Both times by an illegal alien from Mexico we found out when they were later caught (once while they were still in the house).  I was rear-ended on the freeway once by....you guessed it an illegal alien from Mexico, no insurance of course.  My brand new car got smashed to hell and was never the same after that.  My dad also got hit by an illegal several years ago, no insurance.  Do you think that kind of thing helps or hurts auto insurance rates?  A good friend of mine had her identity stolen.  Guess what is a major factor driving the identity theft industry?  When you go to the ER in my state with a medical emergency guess who is clogging up the lobby and creating long wait times. You see they can't go to a regular doctor when their kid gets the flu because they have no insurance.  When they don't pay their hospital bills do you think that makes our hospital bills more expensive or less expensive?  Then you factor in national security which is kind of a big issue in the age of terrorism and nuclear proliferation.  Do I need to go on?

some pick lettuce, others do other types of agricultural jobs, or they clean bathrooms, wash dishes, work in car washes, etc...

Seems that you believe the majority of illegal immigrants are here doing burglary, identity theft and causing auto accidents (thus driving up insurance rates?)

Now that you've finally answered my first question can you provide proof for all of your claims

surely this must be well documented

[Las Vegas]

There are workplaces all over this nation, of every sort from warehouses to construction crews, from restaurants to factories, from whichever and whatever, where a traditional American couldn't be hired due to an inability to communicate with co-workers in their language.  From then on, the citizen becomes excluded from mining those opportunities.  Think about that shit.

[240 is Back]

i don't get how a wall solves this.  

They'll start building "wall kits" with a nice ladder + rope for getting down.  They'll stack up dirt piles to the top.  They'll blow it up.  They'll start fires and leave bodies all over it.  Think of the horrors of such a wall.

BETTER SOLUTION is to make the illegals leave... fine anyone who hires them or rents to them, and offer a $5k reward to anyone that turns in an illegal.  Watch how fast their legal friends drop a dime on their asses.  And for the border itself, use technology to pick up the people wandering in, AND drop them BACK OFF someplace much further south... or even on the other side of the planet!  If illegals knew thye'd be dropped off in Africa or India, for example, they'd think twice about that shit.  Some shithole like Yemen would be happy to accept illegal aliens at a cost of $100 each lol.   Ship em over!

A wall is low tech and stupid, designed for simple people that see a wall as invincible.  A wall can be climbed, folks.  Stop the illegals in a dozen smarter ways!

[Pray_4_War]

some pick lettuce, others do other types of agricultural jobs, or they clean bathrooms, wash dishes, work in car washes, etc...

Seems that you believe the majority of illegal immigrants are here doing burglary, identity theft and causing auto accidents (thus driving up insurance rates?)

Now that you've finally answered my first question can you provide proof for all of your claims

surely this must be well documented

At what point did I say that the majority of illegals are doing these things?  I didn't say that.  However, it doesn't take the majority of them doing it to cause a giant problem for the United States

I guess what I said before isn't refutable.  It should be, but idiots will refute about anything these days.  (The world is round, etc.)

Here's what I want you to do.  Test my boat analogy.  Get a little boat and row yourself out into the middle of the ocean.  Then put a giant hole in the bottom.  Next, get a bucket and try to scoop all the water out before you plug the hole.  If you make it back then you will have your answer.

[James]

"The biggest mistake of my presidency was signing the 1986 amnesty" - Ronald Reagan


According to Ronald Reagan himself, as told to his trusted long-time friend and U.S. Attorney General Edwin Meese, the biggest mistake of his presidency was signing the 1986 amnesty for what turned out to be more than half the five million illegal immigrants in the country. Reagan was uncomfortable with the amnesty but was persuaded by some of the leaders of his own party (still living) that it would only affect a small number of illegal immigrants and would assure that Congress would follow through with more vigorous enforcement of U.S. immigration laws.The misnamed Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 was touted by its supporters as “comprehensive immigration reform” that would grant amnesty only to a few long-settled immigrants and strengthen border security and internal immigration enforcement against employers who were hiring illegal immigrants.

http://www.vdare.com/posts/ed-meese-says-reagan-regretted-1986-amnesty



Reagan Would Not Repeat Amnesty Mistake:

http://humanevents.com/2006/12/13/reagan-would-not-repeat-amnesty-mistake/

[240 is Back]

"The biggest mistake of my presidency was signing the 1986 amnesty" - Ronald Reagan

that's pretty huge.   

[Straw Man]

At what point did I say that the majority of illegals are doing these things?  I didn't say that.  However, it doesn't take the majority of them doing it to cause a giant problem for the United States

I guess what I said before isn't refutable.  It should be, but idiots will refute about anything these days.  (The world is round, etc.)

Here's what I want you to do.  Test my boat analogy.  Get a little boat and row yourself out into the middle of the ocean.  Then put a giant hole in the bottom.  Next, get a bucket and try to scoop all the water out before you plug the hole.  If you make it back then you will have your answer.

so it's not "the majority" so we back to where we've started.

I'm all for arresting criminals whether they are illegal aliens or not and I'd prefer to put them in US jails rather than deport them so that they can just come back and commit more crimes.

I seriously doubt the illegal aliens from Mexico (who likely care barely speak English and are dirt poor) are responsible for many identify thefts but you've said it's a "major factor driving the identity theft industry" so how about you show so proof of this

Rather than mass deportation which will be hugely expensive and never work I'd prefer strict documentation of all illegal immigrants with focus on arresting the true criminals (and locking them up here) with work permits for the others and also deporting any who aren't working.   The one truly indisputable fact about this group of people is that our agricultural industry depends on them.  Since you're fond of telling others to search the internet I'm sure you'll be able to locate all kinds of source documenting that fact.   They also do many other low wage jobs that people like you and me will never do.

[Straw Man]

"The biggest mistake of my presidency was signing the 1986 amnesty" - Ronald Reagan


According to Ronald Reagan himself, as told to his trusted long-time friend and U.S. Attorney General Edwin Meese, the biggest mistake of his presidency was signing the 1986 amnesty for what turned out to be more than half the five million illegal immigrants in the country. Reagan was uncomfortable with the amnesty but was persuaded by some of the leaders of his own party (still living) that it would only affect a small number of illegal immigrants and would assure that Congress would follow through with more vigorous enforcement of U.S. immigration laws.The misnamed Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 was touted by its supporters as “comprehensive immigration reform” that would grant amnesty only to a few long-settled immigrants and strengthen border security and internal immigration enforcement against employers who were hiring illegal immigrants.

http://www.vdare.com/posts/ed-meese-says-reagan-regretted-1986-amnesty



Reagan Would Not Repeat Amnesty Mistake:

http://humanevents.com/2006/12/13/reagan-would-not-repeat-amnesty-mistake/

seems to be an internet myth
http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/internet-myth-ronald-reagan-regretted-legalization/

btw - I'm not in favor of amnesty

[Pray_4_War]

Read this if you have the courage Straw.  I'm sure this is all overblown too.  Just raping the women that Americans don't want to rape themselves I guess.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/03/21/illegal-immigrants-allegedly-drag-woman-from-boyfriend-to-rape-her-then-the-boyfriend-took-them-all-on/

[Pray_4_War]

I seriously doubt the illegal aliens from Mexico (who likely care barely speak English and are dirt poor) are responsible for many identify thefts but you've said it's a "major factor driving the identity theft industry" so how about you show so proof of this

They steal social security numbers in order to gain employment.  I used to work in the identity theft industry you stupid fuck.  I also used to process credit checks for a mobile phone company where I dealt first hand  with people that were using stolen social security numbers.  Trust me, illegal immigration is a huge factor driving identity theft.

You don't know what you are talking about.  You are an excuse maker and it's absolutely disgusting.  Get in touch with reality.