Dexter vs Shawn Ray feud heating up.

[Ssxa]

Structure and conditioning wise, Shawn Ray is better than Dexter. He may be one of the best of all time actually. Sure the guys nowadays are bigger, but they sacrifice conditioning due to the use of insulin and synthol. Look at the comparison above, Dexter’s conditioning is nowhere near Shawn’s.

[pamith]

I wonder who wins in a fight

[illuminati]

I respect your point of view. But, no way am I buying Dorian Yates, winning the 1994 Mr. Olympia with straight firsts across the board.

If there were any Olympia that should have gone to a Shawn Ray, it's that one.

He may of got straight 1sts because of the judging system used - (I don’t know
What system was used)-  At a guess he was judged 1st in each round not 1st in each
Pose - so he was judged the best in each round as an overall physique is my Guess.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I respect your point of view. But, no way am I buying Dorian Yates, winning the 1994 Mr. Olympia with straight firsts across the board.

If there were any Olympia that should have gone to a Shawn Ray, it's that one.

I actually don't think he won with straight firsts. However considering both the high and low scores are tossed out it's very easy for him to win with straight firsts. Shawn wasn't even in the fight for first place. He was actually behind Kevin Leverone after the prejudging, Shawn wasn't closer to Dorian ever.

In some sense of the " this is what the best built bodybuilder on the planet should look like " you can make a case for Shawn , but according to how the IFBB judged contests Dorian was the clear winner and Shawn wasn't even close.

[Rambone]

Can somebody tell me what the penis comment was 

[MCWAY]

I actually don't think he won with straight firsts. However considering both the high and low scores are tossed out it's very easy for him to win with straight firsts. Shawn wasn't even in the fight for first place. He was actually behind Kevin Leverone after the prejudging, Shawn wasn't closer to Dorian ever.

In some sense of the " this is what the best built bodybuilder on the planet should look like " you can make a case for Shawn , but according to how the IFBB judged contests Dorian was the clear winner and Shawn wasn't even close.

Therein lies my point. The idea that Dorian Yates was SOOOOOO far ahead of Shawn Ray that Yates could show up looking that awful, yet still end up winning, is patently absurd.

How do you win a symmetry round with 1^1/2 arms? How do you win the proportion round with that bloated waist that diminished your legs (and that withered arm even more)?

Since this thread is about Dexter Jackson and Shawn Ray, I make the observation that Cutler looked better (or less worse) against Jackson in 2008 than Yates did against Ray in 1994.

Yet, Jackson has a Sandow but Ray doesn't. Then again, Ray competed in the era(s) where all the reigning Mr. O had to do was show up with a pulse and he'd win another title.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Therein lies my point. The idea that Dorian Yates was SOOOOOO far ahead of Shawn Ray that Yates could show up looking that awful, yet still end up winning, is patently absurd.

How do you win a symmetry round with 1^1/2 arms? How do you win the proportion round with that bloated waist that diminished your legs (and that withered arm even more)?

Since this thread is about Dexter Jackson and Shawn Ray, I make the observation that Cutler looked better (or less worse) against Jackson in 2008 than Yates did against Ray in 1994.

Yet, Jackson has a Sandow but Ray doesn't. Then again, Ray competed in the era(s) where all the reigning Mr. O had to do was show up with a pulse and he'd win another title.

Therein lies my point. The idea that Dorian Yates was SOOOOOO far ahead of Shawn Ray that Yates could show up looking that awful, yet still end up winning, is patently absurd.

In terms of the judging criteria he was so far ahead of Ray and everyone else.

How do you win a symmetry round with 1^1/2 arms? How do you win the proportion round with that bloated waist that diminished your legs (and that withered arm even more)?

Easy when you consider this. All rounds are physique rounds. The " symmetry round " is a misnomer because people think that only " symmetry " is being judged and it's not because All rounds are physique rounds. Meaning ALL of the criteria is being judged at the same time. symmetry AND muscular bulk AND balance AND proportion AND posing AND presentation AND density AND dryness. ALL of the criteria is accessed at once. Not just symmetry. So while Shawn has an advantage in " symmetry " he doesn't have an advantage in ALL of the rest.

The head judge actually commented on Dorian's injury and said it made " no overall difference " He could have easily lost the poses where it would matter , front double biceps pose and standing relaxed ( 2 poses he wasn't really that outstanding in ) and still win the contest. He could lose a few poses and still win with straight firsts because the high and low scores are tossed out for the average.

The simple fact is it wasn't really close in 1994. Shawn was actually behind Kevin at the end of prejudging and only pulled ahead in the night show.



 

[joswift]

In terms of the judging criteria he was so far ahead of Ray and everyone else.

Easy when you consider this. All rounds are physique rounds. The " symmetry round " is a misnomer because people think that only " symmetry " is being judged and it's not because All rounds are physique rounds. Meaning ALL of the criteria is being judged at the same time. symmetry AND muscular bulk AND balance AND proportion AND posing AND presentation AND density AND dryness. ALL of the criteria is accessed at once. Not just symmetry. So while Shawn has an advantage in " symmetry " he doesn't have an advantage in ALL of the rest.

The head judge actually commented on Dorian's injury and said it made " no overall difference " He could have easily lost the poses where it would matter , front double biceps pose and standing relaxed ( 2 poses he wasn't really that outstanding in ) and still win the contest. He could lose a few poses and still win with straight firsts because the high and low scores are tossed out for the average.

The simple fact is it wasn't really close in 1994. Shawn was actually behind Kevin at the end of prejudging and only pulled ahead in the night show.



 

the quarter turns are supposed to be about balance and symmetry and the structure and flow of a physique, the compulsories are about the size and muscularity, the free posing is supposed to be how you display it.

thats how it should be, but it clearly isnt

[NarcissisticDeity]

 

[Royalty]

Dexter wins because his back is absolutely better than Shawn’s. Dexter has great lats and traps. He is too wide and too thick for Shawn.

[MCWAY]

In terms of the judging criteria he was so far ahead of Ray and everyone else.

Easy when you consider this. All rounds are physique rounds. The " symmetry round " is a misnomer because people think that only " symmetry " is being judged and it's not because All rounds are physique rounds. Meaning ALL of the criteria is being judged at the same time. symmetry AND muscular bulk AND balance AND proportion AND posing AND presentation AND density AND dryness. ALL of the criteria is accessed at once. Not just symmetry. So while Shawn has an advantage in " symmetry " he doesn't have an advantage in ALL of the rest.

The head judge actually commented on Dorian's injury and said it made " no overall difference " He could have easily lost the poses where it would matter , front double biceps pose and standing relaxed ( 2 poses he wasn't really that outstanding in ) and still win the contest. He could lose a few poses and still win with straight firsts because the high and low scores are tossed out for the average.

The simple fact is it wasn't really close in 1994. Shawn was actually behind Kevin at the end of prejudging and only pulled ahead in the night show.

Dryness? You could almost literally WRING the water out of Yates' skin. And proportion? That bloated waist of Yates made his legs look smaller. The only thing Yates had on Ray (in that contest) was size.

Again, this was the era where incumbent Mr. Os just didn't get beat, no matter how badly they looked that day. That all changed in 2006 when Ronnie Coleman finally fell to Jay Cutler. And even THERE, Coleman didn't look as awful against Cutler as Yates did against Ray.

The only time I've seen a defending Mr. O look about as good as he did previous year but still lose was 2009. Dex looked great. But Jay Cutler just got his mojo back and looked unreal.