Author Topic: Accidental COVID Shoulders.  (Read 9532 times)

Dave D

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2020, 08:13:04 PM »
I always wonder, would my shoulder joints be in much better shape now if I had not done presses for those first 20 years of training?  I always arrive at the same answer... absolutely. 

I trained moderately heavy when I was younger, nothing crazy, but now I'll have this crackling, clicking and clunking in my shoulder joints the rest of my life.  Just lifting a gallon of milk out of the fridge can hurt sometimes.  Younger trainers would do themselves a huge favor by simply listening and heed the training advice of us older guys.

Do you think all overhead movements are damaging to the shoulders?

El Diablo Blanco

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2020, 05:42:38 AM »
Did you keep the weight light? How many reps and sets? These are all exercises I really enjoy doing. My delts have never been my strong point....not sure anything is but definitely not them.  :)

By the time my workouts are done my shoulders have already been worked. So I start the laterals from 10 pounds up to 50.  I go up in 5 pound increments each set. Some days I can make it up to 50 and others I stop at 30 or 35 pounds if they get burnt out quicker. I just rep out to failure.  I always thought the same as a couple of you that my genetics won’t allow me to get round caps.  I was just hitting them wrong.  I get in 5 workouts a week which means hitting sides, front and rear lats 2-2-1 time per week.

Mr Anabolic

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2020, 06:05:37 AM »
Do you think all overhead movements are damaging to the shoulders?

20-30 years worth of heavy overhead pressing? ... absolutely. 

Same goes for "behind the neck" anything.

It's not just shoulder joints, it's your neck and spine too. 

The body eventually wears out/down as you age, no matter how perfect your form is, or how good your diet is. 


Hypertrophy

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2020, 08:03:17 AM »
Shoulder impingement is so dependent on your genetics and how much weight you use. I developed extreme pain from overhead presses and lateral raises because the acromium process of  my shoulders actually curves down at the end. This meant that as I raise my arms overhead the rotator cuff muscles actually jammed against the bone.

The cure is to bring your arms slightly forward in pressing or in the case of laterals, bend forward and rotate your hands to a more thumbs up position. After these changes no more pain.

Damage to the rotator cuff can happen in weeks in some people, years in others. The reality is you don't actually have to do any overhead pressing to develop your shoulder muscles, so why risk it?


Thin Lizzy

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2020, 08:15:52 AM »
I believe the rep scheme that ages the best is the pyramid 15/12/10/8/6 and throw in a 12 rep drop set for good measure.

Most of the volume is with moderate weight and by the time you get to the heavy set, you’re well warmed up.

Kwon

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2020, 09:42:16 AM »
Any pics of the COVID-shoulders?
Q

benchmstr

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2020, 06:52:11 AM »
I discovered a long time ago that overhead pressing of any kind only makes me stronger...it won’t get me the shoulder look I want...I have a full gym in my barn....but in my house I have a set of 10 and 15lbs dumbbells that I used to just randomly do sets of laterals with essentially all day. I have always did at least 50 band pull aparts every day for geneneral shoulder health.

When I was really hitting the shoulder laterals hard and ditched the overhead press my shoulders had never looked better...my strength went down drastically though...I now do shoulder press again...but I will start with 5 sets of 15-20 laterals with light weight...then 5 sets of 5-20 overhead press....then 5 sets of laterals with the heaviest dumbbells I can perform without cheating with until failure.

Bench

Mr Anabolic

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2020, 06:55:13 AM »
I believe the rep scheme that ages the best is the pyramid 15/12/10/8/6 and throw in a 12 rep drop set for good measure.

Most of the volume is with moderate weight and by the time you get to the heavy set, you’re well warmed up.

Warming up is one thing... years of wear and tear is quite another.

oldtimer1

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2020, 08:00:57 AM »
Shoulder impingement is so dependent on your genetics and how much weight you use. I developed extreme pain from overhead presses and lateral raises because the acromium process of  my shoulders actually curves down at the end. This meant that as I raise my arms overhead the rotator cuff muscles actually jammed against the bone.

The cure is to bring your arms slightly forward in pressing or in the case of laterals, bend forward and rotate your hands to a more thumbs up position. After these changes no more pain.

Damage to the rotator cuff can happen in weeks in some people, years in others. The reality is you don't actually have to do any overhead pressing to develop your shoulder muscles, so why risk it?

On thing two different physical therapists told me that lift is that the pouring the water pitcher movement doing delt dumbbell side laterals are terrible for impingement. Both said to do them thumbs up and slightly bent over. My delts have really responded to this. I know some might say that doesn't hit your side delt but that isn't factual.  There are a lot of things we do wrong while lifting that damages the shoulder. We do them because every champ has always done it that way. How many have shoulder issues?  When you do front delt dumbbell laterals the same thing. Do them thumbs up and not directly to the front but make a V of your arms to the front. Then again the front delts are hit brutally when you train chest. It could be over kill. Yes, like you said shoulder presses should be done with the elbows in front of the body and not to the sides. Younger guys can get away with things but when they have decades of hard lifting under their belt the injuries start to pile up.  Of course those that glide and take it easy in the gym have the best longevity but the worst results. 

Hypertrophy

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2020, 08:22:49 AM »
On thing two different physical therapists told me that lift is that the pouring the water pitcher movement doing delt dumbbell side laterals is terrible for impingement. Both said to do them thumbs up and slightly bent over. My delts have really responded to this. I know some might say that doesn't hit your side delt but that isn't factual.  There are a lot of things we do wrong while lifting that damages shoulder. We do them because every champ has always done it that way. How many have shoulder issues?  When you do front delt dumbbell laterals the same thing. Do them thumbs up and not directly to the front but make a V of your arms to the front. Then again the front delts are hit brutally when you train chest. It could be over kill. Yes, like you said shoulder presses should be done with the elbows in front of the body and not to the sides. Younger guys can get away with things but when they have decades of hard lifting under their belt the injuries start to pile up.  Of course those that glide and take it easy in the gym have the best longevity but the worst results.

In total agreement. The guy at Atlean-X, a channel on Youtube, has a great segment on laterals describing what you wrote. I also recently found about scaptions- the front raise you described. It really feels good compared to palms down front raises.

The constant shoulder pain I had when doing the exercises wrong (for my skeletal build) really had me giving up completely on shoulder training!


oldtimer1

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2020, 08:34:04 AM »
In total agreement. The guy at Atlean-X, a channel on Youtube, has a great segment on laterals describing what you wrote. I also recently found about scaptions- the front raise you described. It really feels good compared to palms down front raises.

The constant shoulder pain I had when doing the exercises wrong (for my skeletal build) really had me giving up completely on shoulder training!

Notice Arnold isn't doing the pouring the pitcher motion. I do them completely thumbs up.  Another movement that destroys shoulders is chest pressing with elbows out to the sides. I have done it that way for many decades. In my youth even competed in power lifting with that form. Elbows should be in close to the sides. As an added bonus it allows you to use more weight.

On a side note I think the bench has ruined so many joints.  It's the standard question about weight lifting. How much can you bench for that single?  One of the major problems I believe it contributes to inflexibility of the shoulder joint. Keep using heavy weights to bring the bar your chest with the big inflated arch and you are shortening the range of motion for the joint that will set you up for a tear over time.  How many have difficulty squatting because they can't bring their arms back to grab the bar? Odds are the bench was a very important lift in their training routine.  Had an orthopedic surgeon and a physical therapist ask me what I can bench.  Told them I haven't benched in decades and if I do it 5 days out of a year. I do about 40 other exercises though. People who don't lift only know the bench and curls.

IroNat

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2020, 02:42:06 PM »
Any pics of the COVID-shoulders?


IroNat

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2020, 02:47:53 PM »
Notice Arnold isn't doing the pouring the pitcher motion.

Arnold being naughty...












Thin Lizzy

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2020, 03:01:42 PM »
Arnold was in his 20s in those pics. You can get away with a lot of shit when you’re in your prime, as you get older not so much so.

IroNat

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2020, 03:29:59 PM »
Arnold was in his 20s in those pics. You can get away with a lot of shit when you’re in your prime, as you get older not so much so.

You mean Arnold doesn't train like that now?

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2020, 03:32:22 PM »
You mean Arnold doesn't train like that now?

A young Thin Lizzy had a trainer gig where Arnold used to train back in the 80’s. He was about 40. He did mostly machines. He liked the Eagle Cybex.

Royalty

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2020, 03:45:42 PM »
Anyone that doesn’t do upright rows is a pussy

oldtimer1

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2020, 04:11:26 PM »
Arnold said in people magazine at age 71, “The machines that you have today, I wish that I could have used them in addition to what I did, because they’re really amazing,” he said. “A guy like myself who had shoulder surgery, hip surgery, knee surgery — they can always find an exercise around the injury that I could do. So I cannot do dumbbell lateral raises anymore, but I can go and find the machine that does exactly the same thing and I have no pain.”

https://people.com/health/arnold-schwarzenegger-workouts-age-71/




IroNat

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Re: Accidental COVID Shoulders.
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2020, 09:17:01 AM »
If we take the anti-bad exercise theories further we must conclude that all exercises where the arms go over the head are bad.

Thus pullups, lat pulls, snatches, etc. are injurious to the shoulders.