Author Topic: Which physique is easier to obtain?  (Read 6978 times)

LuciusFox

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2006, 09:20:21 PM »
ehhhh.... just work with what Mother Nature gave YOU.

   Great point. You have to be yourself.

HowieW

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2006, 09:33:49 PM »
Phil Heath's

or

Dennis James?

I know the discussions here are always about "mass monsters" vs. "aesthetics", but which one's easier to get to?

BOTH guys have incredible shape and mass on their individual frames. Impossible to say in my opinion
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IFBBwannaB

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2006, 09:45:10 PM »
DJ is harder,Heath relies alot on his genetics.If he had DJ structure on the same weight he would look alot worse.

Thats why Shawn,early Flex and others could stand next to 280 Nasser and beat him when they were aroudn 210-230.

CAPTAIN MARVEL

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2006, 10:17:31 PM »
Yes there is!!
no, there isn't
how exactly does someone change their genetic muscle insertions, shape etc?





besides synthol
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Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2006, 11:01:05 PM »
You cannot train for cuts or striations, they are all genetic when you diet down.

1. When I say "detail" I'm referring to training each individual bodypart, ex; exercises that train the front and rear delts, exercises that hit each individual muscle from every angle and not just doing 2-3 exercises per bodypart with 2-3 sets and 4-6 reps. Don't give me examples of what "the pro's" do in magazine articals, it's total misleading training advice and anyone that has been training for any lengh of time should know this......HIT is crap training!!

2. Cuts and straitions ARE NOT genetic, like I said before, if you look back in the late 70's, 80's and early 90's just about everyone was cut and or straited.

CAPTAIN MARVEL......I never said anything abouit insertions or shape, that is genetic!!

dzulboy

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2006, 11:31:46 PM »
any schmuck can look like dj with enough gear    phil heath is one genetically gifted bodybuilder

brianX

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2006, 12:00:17 AM »
I disagree and this is why...........no one is willing to work hard for what they desire. If you look at most of todays bodybuilders (pro's) they spend more time doing power exercises and using the "HIT"system than volume training, in essence they train exclusivly for mass without paying much attention to detail. I've said this a million times before......if you took todays training methods and put these guys up against yesterdays training methods with the same intensity they wouldn't be able to handle it. A good example is to look at the aesthetics of the bodybuilders from the late 70's, 80's and early 90's and compare to the bodybuilders of today..sure they are bigger but aesthetics is gone!!

Anyone can get big with the right amount of gear, but it takes smart training to perfect it!!

BULLSHIT. Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler both use a huge amount of volume. Just watch their training videos. Very few big guys use HIT training.

Aesthetics are gone because bodybuilders are pushing their bodyweights too high. Ronnie and Jay both looked fantastic at 220 lb, and easily could have competed against the champions of the 70's and 80's. The idea that isolation exercises are necessary for a more aesthetic physique is simply laughable. All of the great bodybuilders of the 50's and 60's used freeweight exercises such as bench presses and squats. How do you explain the fact that John Grimek, Dave Draper, Reg Park, Boyer Coe, and Lou Ferrigno all trained extremely heavy on the powerlifts? According to your logic, those guys should have had terrible aesthetics.

Aesthetics is almost entirely a function of genetics. The most aesthetic bodybuilders are naturally well proportioned and symmetrical. END OF STORY.
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buffbodz

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2006, 08:17:21 AM »
Like someone said it's all in the genes.  You can bust your balls and become your personell best and with average genetics mass is probably the way to go.  If you borne with Flex Wheeler's genetics, than you train to to obtain the best cut and ripped physique you can.  It's all what you have to begin with.
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Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2006, 10:16:47 AM »
BULLSHIT. Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler both use a huge amount of volume. Just watch their training videos. Very few big guys use HIT training.

Aesthetics are gone because bodybuilders are pushing their bodyweights too high. Ronnie and Jay both looked fantastic at 220 lb, and easily could have competed against the champions of the 70's and 80's. The idea that isolation exercises are necessary for a more aesthetic physique is simply laughable. All of the great bodybuilders of the 50's and 60's used freeweight exercises such as bench presses and squats. How do you explain the fact that John Grimek, Dave Draper, Reg Park, Boyer Coe, and Lou Ferrigno all trained extremely heavy on the powerlifts? According to your logic, those guys should have had terrible aesthetics.

Aesthetics is almost entirely a function of genetics. The most aesthetic bodybuilders are naturally well proportioned and symmetrical. END OF STORY.

You are totally missing my point. I know they used (Ferrigno, Coe, etc) power exercises ie; Bench, squats, rows, but they also used exercises to hit each individual bodyparts front lateral, rear laterals, 3-4 exercises for triceps, 3-4 for biceps, etc, when I say 'volume training' I'm talking about 12, 15 or 20 sets per bodypart and 8-12 reps. Bodybuilders way back when rarely if at all did any type of deadlifts. You are right to some extent about the genetics but it is quite possible to also train for aesthetics as well.

Arnold is a great example, he routienly did 20-25 sets for chest when he wasn't supersetting with back and even with his supersets the sets and reps were quite high. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see, read or here about people doing even too many supersets anymore exept maybe in the weeks prior to a show. 

Bast175

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2006, 07:05:48 PM »

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2006, 07:16:35 PM »
No, not maybe.


..............but I'm rarely wrong :P!!

IceCold

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2006, 08:22:38 PM »
i think its harder to be a mass monster.  a good mass monster.  how many good big guys are out there?  its hard to be a huge pro bber and look good.

ex. greg kovacs.  huge but looks like shit (ok, looked ok when he got his pro card).

ex. dillet, nasser, ruhl, yates.  all big guys and looked good.

i think its harder to be bigger.  all the smaller guys def. want to be bigger.  ahmad haidar may not want to be ruhls size, but he would much rather compete at 240 and look the same as he does now at 220. 
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ManBearPig...

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2006, 08:52:38 PM »
Like someone said it's all in the genes.  You can bust your balls and become your personell best and with average genetics mass is probably the way to go.  If you borne with Flex Wheeler's genetics, than you train to to obtain the best cut and ripped physique you can.  It's all what you have to begin with.

how do you know what you have to begin with?
bone structure? i don't really subscribe to that theory.
genetics? look at arnold's and lou's dad (and i'm sure many other pro's dads/moms).
plateauing at a certain weight? well, we all can find a solution to that in a needle...or needles.
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Earl1972

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2006, 09:49:06 PM »

..............but I'm rarely wrong :P!!

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HowieW

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2006, 09:54:22 PM »
any schmuck can look like dj with enough gear    phil heath is one genetically gifted bodybuilder

This cracks me up if you are serious LOL
For those that think a pro physique like Dennis James is nothing more than hitting a lot of juice, well, then for those that really think that try this:

1. Get as much stuff as you can via any means possible, train hard, eat right, etc.
2. Do this for a couple years and go win an NPC qualifier, then go and win your class at the nationals, get your pro card and place in a pro show a few times.

Pc of cake.....NOT!
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brianX

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2006, 10:03:01 PM »
This cracks me up if you are serious LOL
For those that think a pro physique like Dennis James is nothing more than hitting a lot of juice, well, then for those that really think that try this:

1. Get as much stuff as you can via any means possible, train hard, eat right, etc.
2. Do this for a couple years and go win an NPC qualifier, then go and win your class at the nationals, get your pro card and place in a pro show a few times.

Pc of cake.....NOT!


The "train hard" part is where most people have problems. Nobody gets super big without lots of heavy and hard training.
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benchthis

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2006, 10:17:34 PM »
The "train hard" part is where most people have problems. Nobody gets super big without lots of heavy and hard training.
not to mention thousands of calories and "supplementation"

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2006, 10:22:45 PM »
The "train hard" part is where most people have problems.

Including the "pro's". Don't be decieved by their DVD's!!

LuciusFox

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Re: Which physique is easier to obtain?
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2006, 10:24:47 PM »
This cracks me up if you are serious LOL
For those that think a pro physique like Dennis James is nothing more than hitting a lot of juice, well, then for those that really think that try this:

1. Get as much stuff as you can via any means possible, train hard, eat right, etc.
2. Do this for a couple years and go win an NPC qualifier, then go and win your class at the nationals, get your pro card and place in a pro show a few times.

Pc of cake.....NOT!


  Plenty of "big guys in the gym" do all of those things and, of course, they don't look so good.