Test Dosage..........

[Lugar]

Do you find there is a huge difference from 300mg a week to 500 to 1 g?  I know some guys take huge amounts, just wondering if the gains are that much greater the higher you go, or is 500mg pretty much the standard?

[trab]

Yes. But dont run up to 1000mg 1st cycle. unnecessary & you will prolly feel like shit @ best.
200-300 is low side. More likely to see good gains 1st time around the 500-600mark like everyone likes.
Adding orals to the 300 might help.  Some guys can show good gains off 200mg Deca a week for a few weeks.  Some guys dont gain that much no matter what. A gram is excessive first time. Dont go near that.
500 packs a pretty good punch.

@ the low (200-300mg) dose, after a short while you knock out Nat production  and are left w/ little to no net gain.

[Rimbaud]

I personally don't see the point of doing 200-300mg of Test a week. It doesn't really make much sense. Sure you'll gain a little but you'll also be shutting yourself down as well & in the end very little if any gains. IMO & in most of what I've read 500mg a week is the standard beginners cycle. I've done four 500mg a week cycles with good results. This time around was the first time I went above 500mg a week & did 625mg. Did I notice a difference? A little but nothing too major. That'll also be my doseage for the next time around as well. I also don't see the point of taking over 1000mg of Test a week unless you're a professional bodybuilder.

Anyway, it appears as if you're thinking about trying to gain the weight you want by just upping the doseages (don't do it that way). I still stand by my initial advice to you which was get clean for about three months (i.e. no test, dbol, etc) & then start with a 16-20 week cycle of 500mg of Test every week (adding EQ as well). I highly recommend you start there & then see how your results are & then plan your next cycle accordingly.

Remember: Steroids are a tool they're not the answer to all the problems. Use them accordingly & with caution.

[Rimbaud]

@ the low (200-300mg) dose, after a short while you knock out Nat production  and are left w/ little to no net gain.

Exactly.

[trab]

Ive Never got more gains w/ out going clean for a decent spell. No matter if you crank it to 1gr+.
it's Just a waste.
You Need to press the reset button. Maybee the Pros know somthing else to keep it piling on nonstop, but I aint found it. Genetic freaks is prolly the answer to that question.

[Overload]

I personally don't see the point of doing 200-300mg of Test a week. It doesn't really make much sense. Sure you'll gain a little but you'll also be shutting yourself down as well & in the end very little if any gains. IMO & in most of what I've read 500mg a week is the standard beginners cycle. I've done four 500mg a week cycles with good results. This time around was the first time I went above 500mg a week & did 625mg. Did I notice a difference? A little but nothing too major. That'll also be my doseage for the next time around as well. I also don't see the point of taking over 1000mg of Test a week unless you're a professional bodybuilder.

Anyway, it appears as if you're thinking about trying to gain the weight you want by just upping the doseages (don't do it that way). I still stand by my initial advice to you which was get clean for about three months (i.e. no test, dbol, etc) & then start with a 16-20 week cycle of 500mg of Test every week (adding EQ as well). I highly recommend you start there & then see how your results are & then plan your next cycle accordingly.

Remember: Steroids are a tool they're not the answer to all the problems. Use them accordingly & with caution.

Good post!

I noticed a big difference between 500mg and 1000mg.

i did a 16 weeker of 500mg test and 300mg deca. then i was clean for 20 weeks and did 1000mg test and 400mg deca for 24 weeks.

I gained ALOT of weight and strength on the 1000mg. but i also had alot of acne and water retention was a bitch. i will never go over 1000mg. my next cycle is only 750 test but i'll be using tren E as well. should be interesting.

[Lugar]

what will be your goals diet with tren?

[Overload]

what will be your goals diet with tren?

Strength.

[Playboy]

Good post!

I noticed a big difference between 500mg and 1000mg.

i did a 16 weeker of 500mg test and 300mg deca. then i was clean for 20 weeks and did 1000mg test and 400mg deca for 24 weeks.

I gained ALOT of weight and strength on the 1000mg. but i also had alot of acne and water retention was a bitch. i will never go over 1000mg. my next cycle is only 750 test but i'll be using tren E as well. should be interesting.

I agree with you on that one, Overload. I just did a recent stack of deca and sustenon and I kept my sustenon at 750mg per week and it was perfect. No side effects in terms of water retention, acne, hair loss etc. Strength was great and the size I put on was quality and not just sheer water retained bulk. You are right...its when you go over 1000mg per week you need to be carefull.

PB

[Lugar]

hearditll shred you too with a good diet...what will your diet be like??

[Rimbaud]

Lugar, Don't worry about Tren right now. Follow the the KISS philosophy (Keep It Simple Stupid). You're making things too complex wither it's diet or gear or training.

[G]

Ive Never got more gains w/ out going clean for a decent spell. No matter if you crank it to 1gr+.
it's Just a waste.
You Need to press the reset button. Maybee the Pros know somthing else to keep it piling on nonstop, but I aint found it. Genetic freaks is prolly the answer to that question.

  I'm the same way....and that's why I start following Borressen and L.Rea routines...the key is short cycles with moderate to very high doses...
...just a short quote:

QUOTE:
(from BUILDING THE PERFECT BEAST by L. REA)

   "The Body Has Action/Reaction Periods and Factors
The body has Action/Reaction periods and factors. Basically the body begins to
significantly to most attempts at altering homeostasis after 2-3 weeks. This
sucked since the best results from a cycle usually came during days #10-30. But we
profited from this information and used it to Frank's advantage by utilizing brief
phases and cycles of 21-30 days, (this is the point where cycles provided serious
results) then got out before side effects out weighed benefits.
"To be successful it is necessary to create maximum growth thresholds and stop
before the body is able to achieve its own counter measure thresholds."
Action/Reaction
Let me explain. My experience has been that a cycle of 8 weeks providing a
continuous plasma level weekly of 400-800 mg testosterone begins to fail to provide
results about week #6 in most cases. This is because the level of endogenous
catabolic hormones becomes elevated as a reaction to the exogenous testosterone
administration and cellular signaling proteins begin to become overwhelmed, which is
due to the action of increase androgens. So anabolism and catabolism are again
about equal. Remember to create a growth environment one or both sides of the
anabolic/catabolic ratio must be altered in favor of either more tissue building or less
tissue wasting.
At the 6 weeks point an athlete's body produces and maintains somewhat
higher cortisol levels than normal. An increase in the administered dosage would
again overwhelm the cortisol and increase signaling protein activity, but eventually it
will catch up...again. Worse yet, when the athlete goes off cycle, the elevated levels of
catabolic hormones overwhelm the declining anabolic chemistry (and activity) and
most of the cycle gains are lost."

[Lugar]

  I'm the same way....and that's why I start following Borressen and L.Rea routines...the key is short cycles with moderate to very high doses...
...just a short quote:

QUOTE:
(from BUILDING THE PERFECT BEAST by L. REA)

   "The Body Has Action/Reaction Periods and Factors
The body has Action/Reaction periods and factors. Basically the body begins to
significantly to most attempts at altering homeostasis after 2-3 weeks. This
sucked since the best results from a cycle usually came during days #10-30. But we
profited from this information and used it to Frank's advantage by utilizing brief
phases and cycles of 21-30 days, (this is the point where cycles provided serious
results) then got out before side effects out weighed benefits.
"To be successful it is necessary to create maximum growth thresholds and stop
before the body is able to achieve its own counter measure thresholds."
Action/Reaction
Let me explain. My experience has been that a cycle of 8 weeks providing a
continuous plasma level weekly of 400-800 mg testosterone begins to fail to provide
results about week #6 in most cases. This is because the level of endogenous
catabolic hormones becomes elevated as a reaction to the exogenous testosterone
administration and cellular signaling proteins begin to become overwhelmed, which is
due to the action of increase androgens. So anabolism and catabolism are again
about equal. Remember to create a growth environment one or both sides of the
anabolic/catabolic ratio must be altered in favor of either more tissue building or less
tissue wasting.
At the 6 weeks point an athlete's body produces and maintains somewhat
higher cortisol levels than normal. An increase in the administered dosage would
again overwhelm the cortisol and increase signaling protein activity, but eventually it
will catch up...again. Worse yet, when the athlete goes off cycle, the elevated levels of
catabolic hormones overwhelm the declining anabolic chemistry (and activity) and
most of the cycle gains are lost."

ok but I know a few older guys who have been on 200-300 hrt for many years and they run 3-4 cycles with 600-700mg a week with very solid gains.......

[trab]

ok but I know a few older guys who have been on 200-300 hrt for many years and they run 3-4 cycles with 600-700mg a week with very solid gains.......

Thats what I do, but after a point it gets harder to gain. And just uping the dose doesnt work for me, even A LOT!

When you come on fresh again is better for gains.  Short cycles like REA and some of Borrenson's I've never
got great results from myself.  If your going to do it, Stick w/ basics at first. The gains Come SO EASY @ 1st. After that it gets harder, and
you may want to try different ideas. You'll get a idea how YOUR body reacts to this and that with simple basics. Unfortunately
most of us are not destined to look like a IFBB pro no matter what.

[Rimbaud]

When you come on fresh again is better for gains. 

That's what I've been trying to tell him. He's upped his doseage of HRT (which he probably doesn't need anyway & I'd be willing to bet his doctor doesn't know about) & he's been fucking around trying to bridge with Dbol & such. I've tried to tell him to get clean for about three or four months before doing a cycle, which I know he won't do.

...1, 2, 3, 4, 5 a feel a smart ass comment coming from Lugar towards me (even though I've been patient & have tried to help him numerous times).

[Lugar]

no, no smart ass remarks....I was clean for awhile....no need to keep following me around rim...I get your point.....would like to hear other sides too....thanks.

[Overload]

hearditll shred you too with a good diet...what will your diet be like??

Anything can shred you with a caloric deficit. Tren is usually considered a "cutter" but you can gain lots of mass and strength on it.

I will be consuming around 5k+ clean calories a day and attempting to gain about 15-20 pounds before my next competition.

I've never used tren so this is an experimental cycle for strength.

When i want to lose weight i simply up the cardio and drop the calories. I've been 6% bodyfat on test/deca.

[Lugar]

so what will your training cardio and diet be like aside from 5k.......meals....

[Rimbaud]

no, no smart ass remarks....I was clean for awhile....no need to keep following me around rim...I get your point.....would like to hear other sides too....thanks.

I doubt it but that's fine - I hope I'm worng. I'm not trying to "follow" you but you tend to repeat yourself over & over. But either way. I'm done posting on your threads & will not try to help anymore. Good luck.

[Lugar]

nah...i said thnx bruh

[G]

Thats what I do, but after a point it gets harder to gain. And just uping the dose doesnt work for me, even A LOT!

When you come on fresh again is better for gains.  Short cycles like REA and some of Borrenson's I've never
got great results from myself.  If your going to do it, Stick w/ basics at first. The gains Come SO EASY @ 1st. After that it gets harder, and
you may want to try different ideas. You'll get a idea how YOUR body reacts to this and that with simple basics. Unfortunately
most of us are not destined to look like a IFBB pro no matter what.

One of the thing about the short cycle is that you must you doses higher than average....otherwise it won't be too effective...for example:  Test 2000+ ew, d-bol 100+ ed, tren 300mg ed...etc and you shouldn't be worried about side effects cause each one of those  is ran for only 10 -20 days. Of course not everybody would like a cycle like this, including AJ and DIV, but for me it turned out to be very effective. The whole point of this is makin as much gains as possible , and around week 6 when usually the progress is slowing down you discontinue the cycle thus normalize cortisol  levels and shortly after that start again, depending on your goals.

[strength]

I personally don't see the point of doing 200-300mg of Test a week. It doesn't really make much sense. Sure you'll gain a little but you'll also be shutting yourself down as well & in the end very little if any gains. IMO & in most of what I've read 500mg a week is the standard beginners cycle. I've done four 500mg a week cycles with good results. This time around was the first time I went above 500mg a week & did 625mg. Did I notice a difference? A little but nothing too major. That'll also be my doseage for the next time around as well. I also don't see the point of taking over 1000mg of Test a week unless you're a professional bodybuilder.

Anyway, it appears as if you're thinking about trying to gain the weight you want by just upping the doseages (don't do it that way). I still stand by my initial advice to you which was get clean for about three months (i.e. no test, dbol, etc) & then start with a 16-20 week cycle of 500mg of Test every week (adding EQ as well). I highly recommend you start there & then see how your results are & then plan your next cycle accordingly.

Remember: Steroids are a tool they're not the answer to all the problems. Use them accordingly & with caution.

brilliant. 

ohh how ya doin bro

[coolioni]

Yeah, Get in , hit is Very Hard, and then get out before your body notices.
You can do this over and over with shorter off periods than if you were to run a longer cycle.
Your body always tries to normalize itself, that is why you gain a tolerance to things and also that is why you stop responding to things as well.
   The late Paul borrensen use to call it "guerrilla warfare".

[Lugar]

I was clean  for 3 mnths during pct ftom 250mg n eq.  tested low again n rxd the patch.  f thst out myself on 300mgg cyp  msrch 2.  now I git my diet to 3500 clean  I really need to get to 200lbs from 166 so I can compete in 2 yts.......228 then vut to 195 at 5 %.......should I crank it aoril 1 andd crank the caks to 4500? ..
.npp
test tbol and proo tren masterin blend. 
hooefully 20 clean lbs?

the while receotor clesnsing I'd mental....been disprove.

note   aas are not the answer  food trsining n rest is all more important and dialed in....well  exceot rest.  redt ie sitting all dsy and ze0 hrs sleep daily.  no off days.......serioud thiughts?