Author Topic: whey vs. whey isolate  (Read 1762 times)

coltrane

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3773
whey vs. whey isolate
« on: August 06, 2007, 12:36:21 PM »
anyone actually know of, or feel if there is much difference?  and, whats a good wpi product?

El Diablo Blanco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31828
  • Nom Nom Nom Nom
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 01:16:28 PM »
one $20 bill vs. two $20 dollar bills.

jmt1

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1590
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 01:20:36 PM »
Different types of whey:

Pro's and con's of concentrates:

First Generation whey protein powders contained as low as 30-40% protein and contained high amounts of lactose, fat, and undenatured proteins. They were considered a "concentrate" and were used mostly by the food industry for baking and other uses. Modern concentrates now contain as high as 70-80% plus protein with reduced amounts of lactose and fat. Many people are under the impression that a WPC is inherently inferior to an isolate.

This is simply untrue. Though WPCs will contain less protein on a gram for gram basis than an isolate, a high quality WPC contains all sorts of interesting compounds not found in the isolates. Good concentrates contain far higher levels of growth factors, such as IGF-1, TGF-ß1, and TGF-ß2.

They contain much higher levels of various phospho lipids, and various bio active lipids, such as Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA), and they often contain higher levels of immunoglobulins and lactoferrin. Although data is lacking as to whether or not these compounds found in a good WPC will effect an athlete's muscle mass or performance, studies do suggest these compounds can improve immunity, intestinal health, and have many other effects that both athletes and "normal" people alike may find beneficial.

The drawbacks of WPCs are they have slightly less protein gram for gram than an isolate, and contain higher levels of fat (though these fats may in fact have beneficial effects) and higher levels of lactose. People should not be under the impression that a well made WPC is inherently inferior to a WPI and may in fact be a superior choice, depending on the goals of the person.

For example, some people don't tolerate lactose well or are trying to watch every gram of fat in their diet, etc. while other may want the potentially beneficial effects of the additional compounds found in a high quality concentrate.

The pro's and con's of isolates, and the micro filtered vs. ion exchange debate.

WPI's generally contain as much as 90-96% protein. Research has found that only whey proteins in their natural undenatured state (i.e. native conformational state) have biological activity. Processing whey protein to remove the lactose, fats, etc. without losing its biological activity takes special care by the manufacturer. Maintaining the natural undenatured state of the protein is essential to its anti-cancer and immune stimulating activity.

The protein must be processed under low temperature and/or low acid conditions as not to "denature" the protein and this becomes an even greater concern when making high grade isolates vs. concentrates. WPI's contain >90% protein contents with minimal lactose and virtually no fat. The advantage of a good WPI is that it contains more protein and less fat, lactose, and ash then concentrates on a gram for gram basis.

However, it should be clear to the reader by now that whey is far more complicated than simple protein content, and protein content per se is far from the most important factor when deciding which whey to use. For example, ion exchange has the highest protein levels of any isolate. Does that make it the best choice for an isolate? No, but many companies still push it as the holy grail of whey.

Ion exchange is made by taking a concentrate and running it through what is called an "ion exchange" column to get an "ion exchange whey isolate." Sounds pretty fancy but there are serious drawbacks to this method. As mentioned above, whey protein is a complex protein made up of many sub fraction peptides that have their own unique effects on health, immunity, etc. Some of these subfractions are only found in very small amounts.

In truth, the subfractions are really what ultimately makes whey the unique protein it is. Due to the nature of the ion exchange process, the most valuable and health promoting components are selectively depleted. Though the protein content is increased, many of the most important subfractions are lost or greatly reduced.

This makes ion exchange isolates a poor choice for a true third-generation whey protein supplement, though many companies still use it as their isolate source due to the higher protein content. Ion exchange isolates can be as high as 70% or greater of the subfraction Beta-lactoglobulin, (the least interesting and most allergenic subfraction found in whey) with a loss of the more biologically active and interesting subfractions.

So, the pros of an ion exchange whey is for those who simply want the very highest protein contents per gram, but the cons are that the higher protein content comes at cost; a loss of many of the subfractions unique to whey. Not an acceptable trade in my view considering the fact that the actual protein differences between a micro filtered type isolate is minimal from that of an ion exchange.

This segues us nicely into looking at the micro filtered whey isolates. With the array of more recent processing techniques used to make WPI's - or pull out various subfractions - such as Cross Flow Micro filtration (CFM®) ultra filtration (UF), micro filtration (MF), reverse osmosis (RO), dynamic membrane filtration (DMF), ion exchange chromatography, (IEC), electro-ultrafiltration (EU), radial flow chromatography (RFC) and nano filtration (NF), manufacturers can now make some very high grade and unique whey proteins. Perhaps the most familiar micro filtered isolate to readers, would be CFM®*.

Although the term "cross flow micro filtered" is something of a generic term for several similar ways of processing whey, The CFM® processing method uses a low temperature micro filtration techniques that allows for the production of very high protein contents (>90%), the retention of important subfractions, extremely low fat and lactose contents, with virtually no undenatured proteins. CFM® is a natural non-chemical process which employs high tech ceramic filters, unlike ion exchange, which involves the use of chemical regents such as hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide. CFM® whey isolate also contains high amounts of calcium and low amounts of sodium.



- The pros of concentrates is there may be higher levels of various -and potentially beneficial - growth factors, lipids, phospholipids, and other potentially interesting compounds. The cons are lower protein gram for gram than isolates, and higher levels of fat and lactose that some people may wish to avoid. Like all whey proteins, not all concentrates are created equal in their levels of the above mentioned compounds of interest.

- The pros of Ion exchange isolates is extremely low fat and lactose levels, with the highest protein levels (on a gram for gram basis). The cons -which outweigh the pros in my view - is the loss of important subfractions in favor of higher amounts of Beta-Lac.

- The pros of well made micro filtered isolates, is a high protein content (90% or above), low lactose and fat levels, very low levels of undenatured proteins, and the retention of important subfractions in their natural ratios. There really are no cons per se, unless the person wants the additional compounds (e.g., higher levels of growth factors, CLA, etc.) found in a well made concentrate.
http://www.strengthcats.com/WBwheyitisarticle13.htm

coltrane

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3773
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 01:31:45 PM »
nice read.....JMT1, what would your pick be to take?

Rimbaud

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9884
  • There can be only one.
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2007, 03:28:05 PM »
If you can afford it go with the isolate. But with the price of protein going up I'm content with my whey protein concentrate.

SWOLETRAIN

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2159
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2007, 06:15:42 PM »
isoalte all day and pwo
blends or casein for nightime.
Isolates offer much higher bioavailiblity and and dont make the user hold as much water.
-

Markoni

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 286
  • trueprotein discount code MOU110
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2007, 10:56:33 PM »
its a same thing ,  isolate is for lactose intolerant who cant drink whey concentrate , isolate have more protein per scoop

I'm lactose intolerant and I use whey isolate and for PWO hydrolyzed whey

coltrane

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3773
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2007, 06:00:20 AM »
i've been using just whey protein concentrate, but i'm switching to the isolate for awhile and see if i can notice any difference

jmt1

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1590
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2007, 08:28:00 AM »
i'm lactose intolerant also so the concentrates dont work well for me.  with the wpi i have tried both the ion exchange and micro filtered. i cant say i really noticed a difference a ion exchange like isopure vs some of the micro filtered i have tried. for pwo i go with the hydrolyzed mixed with either malto/dex or waixy maize.

Cleanest Natural

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 28661
  • Diet first, all else second
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2007, 01:45:48 AM »
i've been using just whey protein concentrate, but i'm switching to the isolate for awhile and see if i can notice any difference

:D u will notice big improvements...keep pumping them weights u little natural wonder ...hahahaha

coltrane

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3773
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2007, 05:13:59 AM »
:D u will notice big improvements...keep pumping them weights u little natural wonder ...hahahaha

this is coming from one who dances around, licking his lips around other guys, while all in underwear.  Screams prepubescent molestation ......or a feature on Dateline:  To catch is predator.

Markoni

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 286
  • trueprotein discount code MOU110
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2007, 11:47:25 PM »
i'm lactose intolerant also so the concentrates dont work well for me.  with the wpi i have tried both the ion exchange and micro filtered. i cant say i really noticed a difference a ion exchange like isopure vs some of the micro filtered i have tried. for pwo i go with the hydrolyzed mixed with either malto/dex or waixy maize.

did you try casein or Complete Milk Dairy Isolate , and if you did  were there any problems with stomach ?

WOOO

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18158
  • Fuck the mods
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2007, 06:44:00 AM »
i'm lactose intolerant also so the concentrates dont work well for me.  with the wpi i have tried both the ion exchange and micro filtered. i cant say i really noticed a difference a ion exchange like isopure vs some of the micro filtered i have tried. for pwo i go with the hydrolyzed mixed with either malto/dex or waixy maize.


it's funny.... i shop for my whey based on taste... after drinking shakes for 13 years the numbers on the tub mean less to me then how it's gonna taste 3 times a day

shiftedShapes

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3828
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2007, 07:55:34 AM »
anyone actually know of, or feel if there is much difference?  and, whats a good wpi product?

no difference, they are both useless rip-offs.  Save your money for tasty real food.  eat less, live long and prosper.

WOOO

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18158
  • Fuck the mods
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2007, 01:52:19 PM »
no difference, they are both useless rip-offs.  Save your money for tasty real food.  eat less, live long and prosper.


oh god.... c'mon dude, whey IS food...

shiftedShapes

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3828
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2007, 02:20:01 PM »

oh god.... c'mon dude, whey IS food...

so is sugar, do you go out and buy a bag of that?  what if they started charging $50 for it?  Oh wait I forgot that's what Milos sells

WOOO

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18158
  • Fuck the mods
Re: whey vs. whey isolate
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2007, 05:59:54 PM »
so is sugar, do you go out and buy a bag of that?  what if they started charging $50 for it?  Oh wait I forgot that's what Milos sells


what were we talking about again?