Cycling...yet again.

[MaTrlx]

I'm kinda torn between a Test E/Deca and a Test E/ Tren Ace cycle and i was wondering if your input could help me make a decison.Price of juice is going up way to much back home in my silly ass country and I wanna make it the best bang for my buck. Price of a 10 week cycle of Test E/Deca cycle would be an estimated $350 and an 8 week cycle of Test E/Tren Ace cycle at $440. 

A lil' info on my thoughts: I have used Tren Ace 2 times so far and I must say it has left quite a deep impression on me. First time was a bulker stacked with test too but didnt go too well as i was kinda inexperienced than.

Second time round was a cutter stacked with prop and anavar that won me my show.Found that tren some how or rather made me hungry as hell while dieting, which i find would be an excellent sense of feeling during the offseason. Basically i would say im in love with tren any way or the other.

However, i have not tried out deca and from reading up on it, many rave on it as the ultimate mass builder. Since this cycle im planning out is an off-season one, hence i decided to let deca get into my choice of products that i wanna use as im curious as hell about this compound. Even good ol' gh15 assures 10 pounds in 10 weeks with the classic test/deca/dbol stack, so why not give it a try?

But, problem is that i am rather sensitive to estrogen sides and letro is a must on every bulking cycle i run, or else i would be just a sea-lion lookalike, therefore im reluctant to run cycles without tren in them. Anyone care to share their experience if they have run a test/deca cycle before? The aim of this cycle is to get maximum size as i can without putting on unnecessary bodyfat.

And is it necessary to kick start the cycle with an oral to get an effect before the test/deca start coming in nicely? Wanna save up on cash as much as i can here and it would be great if i can just spend the cash only on the injectables this time round.

Thanks in advance for your inputs guys.

[trab]

Ive never use Tren, but Ive use plenty of Deca. The main complaint is sudden loss of sexual function and Drive w/ Deca. Ive found 400 wk to be fine along with at least 500-600mgs of Active test along side it.
(Sustanon aint all active in a weeks time). 

Dbol seems to be synergistic with Deca also. Test + Deca + Dbol is very good IMO.
If a guy was overweight/ Fat/ High Bp - This is not a option.

I think anything from Nolva and or/ Adex will keep the water down to the level you want.
Ai's get to be a personal experience thing.   

[MaTrlx]

Dbol seems to be synergistic with Deca also. Test + Deca + Dbol is very good IMO.
If a guy was overweight/ Fat/ High Bp - This is not a option.
 

What about tbol trab? Is there any synergy with tbol and deca?

U seemed to mention that that stack is not meant for fat people. Would i be too shabby at 12-15% bodyfat to run the this cycle? 

[SWOLETRAIN]

I dont like tren in a bulker at all. Tren makes you hard and strong, not good for size. Test/deca/dbol gets you bloated,strong,and huge. If you wanna fight the bloat get some Pharm Grade ai (i prefer adex in the bulkers). Trying to remain lean while bulking defeats the purpose imo. Bulking= eating a surplus of calories to remain anabolic and force growth. You wont get fat if you stick to whole foods. Cheat here and there but use whole foods and youll be alright. Go with the test deca dbol and cut with the tren. Tbol is poor mans anavar, its very good, too lean for bulker though. Something about that nasty ol dianabol.... i smell it and grow!

[2ND COMING]

tren is 3x anablic as test, how could you not bulk with it?

[SWOLETRAIN]

Because tren is only good for about 6 weeks 8 at most,tren is extremely toxic, and see how big you get off it. I love tren, it is the only thing i have taken that allows me to eat like a brid and still get stronger while dieting. Tren makes you hard hard hard, and makes me feel pretty shitty inside. Plus those eod administrations get old quick!

[trab]

What about tbol trab? Is there any synergy with tbol and deca?

U seemed to mention that that stack is not meant for fat people. Would i be too shabby at 12-15% bodyfat to run the this cycle? 

Ive never used Tbol. I dont talk about what I aint done.
Swole aint talkn shit there. I like his - Your either trying to get Bigger & going to get a little bloat on; or your trying to get hard theory.  To me, the idea of gaining much "lean bulk" is a fantasy. Your refine what you bulk.

Maybe theres a guy or few who can, I think most would be better in one mode or the other.


You might switch T-Bol in after Deca. Maybe Tbol + Tprop? (stan,Var,Primo?)

Blood pressure is the limiting factor to How much of a cammel one wants to become.
If it gets too high, ya got to shed some water.
Bloated usualy = stronger. Good God, look at some of them PLers

[MaTrlx]

I do agree with swole on tren not being a good size builder. Its a VERY excellent tool in getting hard but not a dramatic size builder kinda drug. Funny thing is that my appetite increased while on tren while i was prepping for my show. Maybe it was the strict dieting or some mental thing or maybe the T3 but it got me hungry as hell.

Had to eat every 2 hours minimum or else i would start getting gastric symptoms.

For AIs, i have my favourite letrozole on hand to combat the puffy nip syndrome i contract easily when i bulk especially with aromatizing agents. Goddamn nipple genetics...

Perhaps i was being too deluded all this while into getting the big and cut look at the same time. Thanks for knocking some sense into me trab and swole. 

[trab]

I do agree with swole on tren not being a good size builder. Its a VERY excellent tool in getting hard but not a dramatic size builder kinda drug. Funny thing is that my appetite increased while on tren while i was prepping for my show. Maybe it was the strict dieting or some mental thing or maybe the T3 but it got me hungry as hell.

Had to eat every 2 hours minimum or else i would start getting gastric symptoms.

For AIs, i have my favourite letrozole on hand to combat the puffy nip syndrome i contract easily when i bulk especially with aromatizing agents. Goddamn nipple genetics...

Perhaps i was being too deluded all this while into getting the big and cut look at the same time. Thanks for knocking some sense into me trab and swole. 

Arnold Schwattzenager used to claim he gain wieght into a contest. I dont believe it. Ive seen pics of him off season look like full of test deca and anapolon. Smooth and swollen.

How Fat to let yourself get? Bone size/ structure can be a determinant. Age. How easily you diet off fat. Some guys end up never able to loose the fat bulk they put on. That aint pretty or healthy. Not eveyone can diet it off like Lee Priest. And its Prolly not easy on the body doing that. Ask Arnold jounior or luv to hurt their opinion on how overweight to get. They compete. I just watch.

[Overload]

You can bulk on tren. people say it's more of a cutting drug because it doesn't bloat the crap out of you like deca or dbol. it's also known to give a harder look and fullness to the muscles.

Bulking is just increasing calories just as cutting is decreasing calories. try not to get "bulking" and "bloating" confused. many drugs bloat you more so people call them bulking drugs, which really isn't the case.

i've been on Test E and Tren Hex for about a month and gained 13 solid pounds. bodyfat is probably the same or a bit lower and i've been doing cardio 4 days a week.

if you consider the actions behind how Tren works you will see it's great for everything.

[Puller]

Last fall/Winter I ran Test-E 600/12wks 400 tren/wks4-12 and 50ed winny for wks 6-12  I also ran 300 of deca a week from weeks 4-10(only did for joints, winny dries me out). I wasdoing a 5x5 routine andputon alot of strength but the tren seemed to lean me out. And I was eating like a horse. 

I'mnot on an amp eod of omna for 16 wks and wks 10-16 350 tren-e. Also cycling T3 and Clen. Fat loss is remarkable and actual weight is barelt dropping I love it.

I love to eat so I look forward to bulking/"bloating". I don't compete and Im naturally (before I started working out) very slim so I dont mind bloating or getting a little fat in theoff season, actually its kind of fun.

My advice if you're interested in gaining size/mass - go balls to the wall. Do thetest-e and deca, kick off with some abombs or dbol and eat.  You can always diet later.  Unless you're already fat, then everything I said is null and void.

 

[MaTrlx]

Thanks once again for all your input guys. I happen to fall into the category of not being able to lose the fat bulk i put on during the off-season, and that, i'm glad to be able to control via manupilation of my diet.  I also noticed that i tend to hold water easily even when off as when i got off the letrozole i was tapering off cyle, i didnt look as hard and smoothened out considerably compared to when i was on the letrozole.

Clean bulking using majority of low-glycemic carbs and consuming them during the day seems to work best at the moment. (Hell, ezkiel bread is the shit man).   

The only thing is the curiousity of trying out a new compound, jus the same feeling of a kid in a candy store buying the new jellybean flavor or some shit like that.

Though i find tren not being able to put much size on for me, i havent exactly used tren in a strict clean calorie surplused bulk situation yet, as i wasnt strict with the diet in the past.

But im pretty confident that a test/deca/dbol cycle wouldnt make one fat but bloated due to the water retention effects, yet many blame these "bulking" drugs due to their inefficiency in planning and sticking to a clean calorie surplused diet.

[trab]

If water retention is a issue, and allready at a BF% thats not so easy to shed, I'd lean to Tprop, Stan, Var, Primo, hgh,

Dont want to end up one of these fatties that cant ever get it off.
If your a BBer that is.

Most PLers will tell you "want to increase your lifts? Gain 10lbs"

[MaTrlx]

Bodyfat is not really that an issue here. I can be contest ready in 8 weeks time if i do go on a strict diet from present state. Not that great but not too shabby either. I just feel "soft" and not as hard compared to when on cycle. Perhaps its just the estrogen rebound from being on letro for quite a while.

Water Retention is however an issue but do u think it can be minimized by running letrozole along with test/deca/dbol along with a tight clean bulking diet to minimize fat gains trab? Perhaps i may switch the oral compound to tbol if theres availability from my source. Will see how it goes.

Thanks for your time trab, appreciate it.

[trab]

fOR WHAT ITS WORTH, DECA MAKES ME VERY HUNGERY. iF YOU CAN JUST KEEP FROM EATING, THE FATS GONA
GO, AND MUSCLE STAY.

[krazee]

Personally I would scratch the Deca out and substitute with EQ....if your going to go with the Tren Idea, you won't be disappointed either. Love the stuff, I would go with the acetate as opposed to the enthanate. This really all depends on the look you are going for as well.

[trab]

Sounds like he wants max BIG.    Test + Deca + Dbol over EQ for that equation.
Want more red cells? EPO, Oxy, EQ in that order.
Watch the hemocrit.