Author Topic: Obama's minister "treasonous"?  (Read 1557 times)

Benny B

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Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« on: March 17, 2008, 10:45:59 AM »
Yeah, right.  ::)

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.

Consider a few passages from my father's immensely influential America-bashing book A Christian Manifesto. It sailed under the radar of the major media who, back when it was published in 1980, were not paying particular attention to best-selling religious books. Nevertheless it sold more than a million copies.

Here's Dad writing in his chapter on civil disobedience:



If there is a legitimate reason for the use of force [against the US government]... then at a certain point force is justifiable.


And this:


In the United States the materialistic, humanistic world view is being taught exclusively in most state schools... There is an obvious parallel between this and the situation in Russia [the USSR]. And we really must not be blind to the fact that indeed in the public schools in the United States all religious influence is as forcibly forbidden as in the Soviet Union....


Then this:



There does come a time when force, even physical force, is appropriate... A true Christian in Hitler's Germany and in the occupied countries should have defied the false and counterfeit state. This brings us to a current issue that is crucial for the future of the church in the United States, the issue of abortion... It is time we consciously realize that when any office commands what is contrary to God's law it abrogates it's authority. And our loyalty to the God who gave this law then requires that we make the appropriate response in that situation...

Was any conservative political leader associated with Dad running for cover? Far from it. Dad was a frequent guest of the Kemps, had lunch with the Fords, stayed in the White House as their guest, he met with Reagan, helped Dr. C. Everett Koop become Surgeon General. (I went on the 700 Club several times to generate support for Koop).

Dad became a hero to the evangelical community and a leading political instigator. When Dad died in 1984 everyone from Reagan to Kemp to Billy Graham lamented his passing publicly as the loss of a great American. Not one Republican leader was ever asked to denounce my dad or distanced himself from Dad's statements.

Take Dad's words and put them in the mouth of Obama's preacher (or in the mouth of any black American preacher) and people would be accusing that preacher of treason. Yet when we of the white Religious Right denounced America white conservative Americans and top political leaders, called our words "godly" and "prophetic" and a "call to repentance."

We Republican agitators of the mid 1970s to the late 1980s were genuinely anti-American in the same spirit that later Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (both followers of my father) were anti-American when they said God had removed his blessing from America on 9/11, because America accepted gays. Falwell and Robertson recanted but we never did.

My dad's books denouncing America and comparing the USA to Hitler are still best sellers in the "respectable" evangelical community and he's still hailed as a prophet by many Republican leaders. When Mike Huckabee was recently asked by Katie Couric to name one book he'd take with him to a desert island, besides the Bible, he named Dad's Whatever Happened to the Human Race? a book where Dad also compared America to Hitler's Germany.

The hypocrisy of the right denouncing Obama, because of his minister's words, is staggering. They are the same people who argue for the right to "bear arms" as "insurance" to limit government power. They are the same people that (in the early 1980s roared and cheered when I called down damnation on America as "fallen away from God" at their national meetings where I was keynote speaker, including the annual meeting of the ultraconservative Southern Baptist convention, and the religious broadcasters that I addressed.

Today we have a marriage of convenience between the right wing fundamentalists who hate Obama, and the "progressive" Clintons who are playing the race card through their own smear machine. As Jane Smiley writes in the Huffington Post "[The Clinton's] are, indeed, now part of the 'vast right wing conspiracy.' (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/im-already-against-the-n_b_90628.html )

Both the far right Republicans and the stop-at-nothing Clintons are using the "scandal" of Obama's preacher to undermine the first black American candidate with a serious shot at the presidency. Funny thing is, the racist Clinton/Far Right smear machine proves that Obama's minister had a valid point. There is plenty to yell about these days.


Frank Schaeffer is a writer and author of "CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It Back

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headhuntersix

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2008, 11:00:16 AM »
Ok....but we're talking about Obama and 2008.  Plus he was race baiting....Obama is all about bringing the races together right. His preacher hates white people.
L

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2008, 11:01:18 AM »
His preacher hates white people.

That's like saying, "Your mortgage broker just wants to get you the best possible loan."

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2008, 12:40:09 PM »
March 11, 2007

Jodi Kantor
The New York Times
9 West 43rd Street
New York,
New York 10036-3959

Dear Jodi:

Thank you for engaging in one of the biggest misrepresentations of the truth I have ever seen in sixty-five years. You sat and shared with me for two hours. You told me you were doing a “Spiritual Biography” of Senator Barack Obama. For two hours, I shared with you how I thought he was the most principled individual in public service that I have ever met.

For two hours, I talked with you about how idealistic he was. For two hours I shared with you what a genuine human being he was. I told you how incredible he was as a man who was an African American in public service, and as a man who refused to announce his candidacy for President until Carol Moseley Braun indicated one way or the other whether or not she was going to run.

I told you what a dreamer he was. I told you how idealistic he was. We talked about how refreshing it would be for someone who knew about Islam to be in the Oval Office. Your own question to me was, Didn’t I think it would be incredible to have somebody in the Oval Office who not only knew about Muslims, but had living and breathing Muslims in his own family? I told you how important it would be to have a man who not only knew the difference between Shiites and Sunnis prior to 9/11/01 in the Oval Office, but also how important it would be to have a man who knew what Sufism was; a man who understood that there were different branches of Judaism; a man who knew the difference between Hasidic Jews, Orthodox Jews, Conservative Jews and Reformed Jews; and a man who was a devout Christian, but who did not prejudge others because they believed something other than what he believed.

I talked about how rare it was to meet a man whose Christianity was not just “in word only.”  I talked about Barack being a person who lived his faith and did not argue his faith. I talked about Barack as a person who did not draw doctrinal lines in the sand nor consign other people to hell if they did not believe what he believed.

Out of a two-hour conversation with you about Barack’s spiritual journey and my protesting to you that I had not shaped him nor formed him, that I had not mentored him or made him the man he was, even though I would love to take that credit, you did not print any of that. When I told you, using one of your own Jewish stories from the Hebrew Bible as to how God asked Moses, “What is that in your hand?,” that Barack was like that when I met him. Barack had it “in his hand.” Barack had in his grasp a uniqueness in terms of his spiritual development that one is hard put to find in the 21st century, and you did not print that.

As I was just starting to say a moment ago, Jodi, out of two hours of conversation I spent approximately five to seven minutes on Barack’s taking advice from one of his trusted campaign people and deeming it unwise to make me the media spotlight on the day of his announcing his candidacy for the Presidency and what do you print? You and your editor proceeded to present to the general public a snippet, a printed “sound byte” and a titillating and tantalizing article about his disinviting me to the Invocation on the day of his announcing his candidacy.

I have never been exposed to that kind of duplicitous behavior before, and I want to write you publicly to let you know that I do not approve of it and will not be party to any further smearing of the name, the reputation, the integrity or the character of perhaps this nation’s first (and maybe even only) honest candidate offering himself for public service as the person to occupy the Oval Office.

Your editor is a sensationalist. For you to even mention that makes me doubt your credibility, and I am looking forward to see how you are going to butcher what else I had to say concerning Senator Obama’s “Spiritual Biography.” Our Conference Minister, the Reverend Jane Fisler Hoffman, a white woman who belongs to a Black church that Hannity of “Hannity and Colmes” is trying to trash, set the record straight for you in terms of who I am and in terms of who we are as the church to which Barack has belonged for over twenty years.

The president of our denomination, the Reverend John Thomas, has offered to try to help you clarify in your confused head what Trinity Church is even though you spent the entire weekend with us setting me up to interview me for what turned out to be a smear of the Senator; and yet The New York Times continues to roll on making the truth what it wants to be the truth. I do not remember reading in your article that Barack had apologized for listening to that bad information and bad advice. Did I miss it? Or did your editor cut it out? Either way, you do not have to worry about hearing anything else from me for you to edit or “spin” because you are more interested in journalism than in truth.

Forgive me for having a momentary lapse. I forgot that The New York Times was leading the bandwagon in trumpeting why it is we should have gone into an illegal war. The New York Times became George Bush and the Republican Party’s national “blog.”  The New York Times played a role in the outing of Valerie Plame. I do not know why I thought The New York Times had actually repented and was going to exhibit a different kind of behavior.

Maybe it was my faith in the Jewish Holy Day of Roshashana.  Maybe it was my being caught up in the euphoria of the Season of Lent; but whatever it is or was, I was sadly mistaken. There is no repentance on the part of The New York Times. There is no integrity when it comes to The Times. You should do well with that paper, Jodi. You looked me straight in my face and told me a lie!

Sincerely and respectfully yours,

Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. ,
Senior Pastor
Trinity United Church of Christ
w

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2008, 03:13:27 PM »
Yeah....we all saw his rants. Nice try
L

Benny B

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2008, 04:50:10 PM »
Yeah....we all saw his rants. Nice try
You are the conservative "trying" to grasp at straws to take down Obama. I know you're praying for Hillary, but Rev. Wright and a bag of chips won't change the delegate count.  ;)

Rev. Wright said nothing in the few clips I've seen that I disagree with, nor has he said anything different than what is said in black churches led by politically and socially active ministers all around this country. When most black people see those clips, they are not particularly suprised or concerned.

Fear-mongering is common tactic used by the Republican party in campaigns. Let's see if "fear" can conquer "hope". I don't believe it will.
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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2008, 05:04:08 PM »
MSNBC Breaking news 8 pm -
obama to deliver speech on race, religion, and rev. wright tomorrow.

Benny B

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2008, 05:15:07 PM »
MSNBC Breaking news 8 pm -
obama to deliver speech on race, religion, and rev. wright tomorrow.

Yeah, in Philly. Obama shouldn't linger on the Wright issue too much longer. Serious issues need to be discussed, and if the media wants to play this game Rev. Hagee and other supporters of John McCain should be made the focal point of McCain's campaign.
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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2008, 05:17:37 PM »
you gotta admit... if the WORST thing they can find is that Obama's priest happens to be a CTer...

well, he's still squeaky clean.  The dude believes that the govt adminstrated AIDS... there are a lot of people who do believe that.  The dude believes our interference in Arab states led to 911... we've had a lot of govt officials say the same thing.  hell, the terrorists said that's why they were doing it - cause we interfered in their affairs.

The main reason is probably the race-baiting the pastor engaged in.  Obama should have created space a few years back when he decided to run for president.  Obama should have a make-or-break day tomorrow.

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2008, 05:51:41 PM »
NY Times printed Bill Kirstol's assertion that Obama was sitting in the church the day the pastor said all those terrible things.

NY Times didn't check it.

Obama's campaign quickly provided evidence that Obama was in miami that morning.

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2008, 06:02:28 PM »
This is all BS

I'd consider Pat Robertsons stated desire to nuke the State Department as an act of terror and treason

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2008, 06:05:07 PM »
He uninvited his pastor to the event where he announced his intention to run so this ain't exactly breaking news for Obama. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us/politics/06obama.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1205802195-ncK8UywttzI51rI+T3BTcg

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2008, 06:11:40 PM »
i wanted to play baseball at st. johns. my best friend was a year older then me and was playing for them while i was being recruited. i had a full scholarship lined up when he got caught selling weed out of his dorm. he got kicked off the team, then all of a sudden the coach told me the money was no longer available, and he wasnt sure i had a spot on the team.

the only thing i could think of is that the coach figured since we were best friends we must be alike. even though i had no clue he was dealing, he fucked me over. guilt by association.

will that same scenario happen with obama?

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2008, 06:22:29 PM »
The question is this...

What matter most to people...

1) Their president's pastor's beliefs, or

2) How their president will handle healthcare, the economy entering a recession, and two wars entering their 5th and 6th years.

If there were two options... one of them was squeaky clean but loved wars and facilitated recession... and the other enjoyed screwing apple pies every night but could get me free healthcare, end troop deaths, and ensure my stock portfolio doesn't collapse...

well, who would you pick?

Straw Man

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2008, 06:24:04 PM »
The question is this...

What matter most to people...

1) Their president's pastor's beliefs, or

2) How their president will handle healthcare, the economy entering a recession, and two wars entering their 5th and 6th years.

If there were two options... one of them was squeaky clean but loved wars and facilitated recession... and the other enjoyed screwing apple pies every night but could get me free healthcare, end troop deaths, and ensure my stock portfolio doesn't collapse...

well, who would you pick?

your average American will probaby pick the one they'd like to smoke a spleef with.

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2008, 06:27:28 PM »
your average American will probaby pick the one they'd like to smoke a spleef with.

yeah, ppl do vote for the one they'd be friends with, usually.

BUT...

If we're on the cusp of major recession or possibly a depression, and Obama is able to clearly illustrate in the debates "My opponent will keep the economy the same, I'll change it!", well, that might seal Obama's win.

Honestly, I hope obama picks a financial wizard as his VP.  Run with Greenspan for gods sakes!

kh300

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2008, 06:30:03 PM »
this wont make or break obama. but does this help him or hurt him?

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2008, 06:31:42 PM »
yeah, ppl do vote for the one they'd be friends with, usually.

BUT...

If we're on the cusp of major recession or possibly a depression, and Obama is able to clearly illustrate in the debates "My opponent will keep the economy the same, I'll change it!", well, that might seal Obama's win.

Honestly, I hope obama picks a financial wizard as his VP.  Run with Greenspan for gods sakes!

I'd like to believe the the general public would give it as much thought as your average getbigger (or even beach bum) but sadly I'm doubtful

24KT

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Re: Obama's minister "treasonous"?
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2008, 10:36:17 PM »
I don't think it mounts to a hill of beans among Obama's supporters.
The only people for whom this c/would make a difference are those former Republican voters in the bible belt that are all confused. They don't want more of the same crap, but at the same time he's a bit of an unknown to them.

Personally, I think Hilary has too much of a deficit to make up in order to get the magic number she needs.
w