Author Topic: Soldiers Say Positive Press Coverage Of The “Surge” Is Wrong  (Read 1345 times)

Decker

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Here is an article signed by seven soldiers from the 82nd Airborne who served in Iraq.  In this article,  they assert that the positvie reporting of “Surge's” success is inaccurate.  They write:

"To believe that Americans, with an occupying force that long ago outlived its reluctant welcome, can win over a recalcitrant local population and win this counterinsurgency is far-fetched. As responsible infantrymen and noncommissioned officers with the 82nd Airborne Division soon heading back home, we are skeptical of recent press coverage portraying the conflict as increasingly manageable and feel it has neglected the mounting civil, political and social unrest we see every day."

“The claim that we are increasingly in control of the battlefields in Iraq is an assessment arrived at through a flawed, American-centered framework. Yes, we are militarily superior, but our successes are offset by failures elsewhere.”

“Four years into our occupation, we have failed on every promise, while we have substituted Baath Party tyranny with a tyranny of Islamist, militia and criminal violence.”

“In short, we operate in a bewildering context of determined enemies and questionable allies, one where the balance of forces on the ground remains entirely unclear.”

“In the end, we need to recognize that our presence may have released Iraqis from the grip of a tyrant, but that it has also robbed them of their self-respect. They will soon realize that the best way to regain dignity is to call us what we are — an army of occupation — and force our withdrawal.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/opinion/19jayamaha.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&oref=slogin

The soldiers also remark about “The Redirection” policy where the US is now supporting the Sunni minority whose allegiance, in some cases, is with the enemy we are fighting. 

Keep all this in mind when the official statement of success comes down in September re the efficacy of the "Surge."


headhuntersix

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Re: Soldiers Say Positive Press Coverage Of The “Surge” Is Wrong
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2007, 08:32:44 AM »
Some thoughts from around the web on this article..including a senior officer running the war.

I wish to begin by conveying our respectful appreciation of their service, and our hopes that their Staff Sergeant Murphy will recover quickly and fully from his injury.  It will surprise no one that I am going to argue against some of the conclusions they offer, but I do not wish disagreement to be read as disrespect.  Their service honors our nation, as does the fact that they feel they can provide a frank assessment of their observations to the public.

The piece they have published offers a despairing look at the situation in Baghdad, where elements of the 82nd have been operating for fifteen months.  I do not intend to challenge their understanding of the facts on the ground, as they are based on direct observation.  I assume the truth of every fact they report.  What I wish to challenge is their conclusions about how events will, they seem to say "must," develop. 

As far as I know, the military does not have a rule against undermining the war effort. As far as I know, soldiers are allowed to go on national/international TV or go to national/international newspapers and undermine the war effort by declaring that we are not up to the task and we should give up. If this were not true, then these NCOs would have already been arrested. As far as I know, they have not been, so apparently it is quite okay with the military for their members to undermine war efforts in which America is engaged. I believe they should be allowed to report the obstacles and the problems and the issues we face to achieve success. I do not believe they should be allowed to declare that the American military cannot achieve this task and suggest that we should leave. They are not in anywhere near a position to even have the judgement to make that call.

First, I don't ever think the message of "we can't win, we need to surrender" is acceptable. Once you get into a war, there is no surrender, there is only "find a way to succeed and win". I would have thought that was the mentality we were instilling in our military men and women. These NCOs tell me that it is not. They tell me that losing is acceptable to them. Surrender is acceptable. "I can't.." or rather "The American military can't.." is acceptable. If that is the mentality of the military then I don't know why I have bothered to support them all this time, when they are just going to give up. I cannot comprehend how the best military in the world is announcing to the world that we cannot defeat and enemy and are willing to accept defeat. That is just beyond my comprehension. It is also beyond my comprehension to hear you tell me that this kind of message should be relayed to the American people, because they have free speech and we should allow every griping G.I. a platform to talk to the American people, no matter the message they are sending.

Simply put, soldiers should express concerns, problems, issues and obstacles and their best analysis on how to solve them. But they should never express defeatism or fatalism to a worldwide audience. Amongst themselves, sure. With their superiors, sure. But keep it within the military. Modern warfare is as much propaganda and efforts to demoralize vs win over citizenry as it is military battles. The military needs to understand this. Either these NCOs did not understand this.. Or they did and knew exactly what they were doing and knew exactly what kind of effect they were going to have when going to the propaganda arm of the enemy, the Treason Times.




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headhuntersix

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Re: Soldiers Say Positive Press Coverage Of The “Surge” Is Wrong
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2007, 08:34:48 AM »
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.” - Theodore Roosevelt
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Colossus_500

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Re: Soldiers Say Positive Press Coverage Of The “Surge” Is Wrong
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2007, 08:40:07 AM »
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.” - Theodore Roosevelt
Teddy was the man! 

Dos Equis

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Re: Soldiers Say Positive Press Coverage Of The “Surge” Is Wrong
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2007, 11:06:56 AM »

Decker

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Re: Soldiers Say Positive Press Coverage Of The “Surge” Is Wrong
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2007, 11:55:32 AM »
Some thoughts from around the web on this article..including a senior officer running the war.

I wish to begin by conveying our respectful appreciation of their service, and our hopes that their Staff Sergeant Murphy will recover quickly and fully from his injury.  It will surprise no one that I am going to argue against some of the conclusions they offer, but I do not wish disagreement to be read as disrespect.  Their service honors our nation, as does the fact that they feel they can provide a frank assessment of their observations to the public.

The piece they have published offers a despairing look at the situation in Baghdad, where elements of the 82nd have been operating for fifteen months.  I do not intend to challenge their understanding of the facts on the ground, as they are based on direct observation.  I assume the truth of every fact they report.  What I wish to challenge is their conclusions about how events will, they seem to say "must," develop. 

As far as I know, the military does not have a rule against undermining the war effort. As far as I know, soldiers are allowed to go on national/international TV or go to national/international newspapers and undermine the war effort by declaring that we are not up to the task and we should give up. If this were not true, then these NCOs would have already been arrested. As far as I know, they have not been, so apparently it is quite okay with the military for their members to undermine war efforts in which America is engaged. I believe they should be allowed to report the obstacles and the problems and the issues we face to achieve success. I do not believe they should be allowed to declare that the American military cannot achieve this task and suggest that we should leave. They are not in anywhere near a position to even have the judgement to make that call.

First, I don't ever think the message of "we can't win, we need to surrender" is acceptable. Once you get into a war, there is no surrender, there is only "find a way to succeed and win". I would have thought that was the mentality we were instilling in our military men and women. These NCOs tell me that it is not. They tell me that losing is acceptable to them. Surrender is acceptable. "I can't.." or rather "The American military can't.." is acceptable. If that is the mentality of the military then I don't know why I have bothered to support them all this time, when they are just going to give up. I cannot comprehend how the best military in the world is announcing to the world that we cannot defeat and enemy and are willing to accept defeat. That is just beyond my comprehension. It is also beyond my comprehension to hear you tell me that this kind of message should be relayed to the American people, because they have free speech and we should allow every griping G.I. a platform to talk to the American people, no matter the message they are sending.

Simply put, soldiers should express concerns, problems, issues and obstacles and their best analysis on how to solve them. But they should never express defeatism or fatalism to a worldwide audience. Amongst themselves, sure. With their superiors, sure. But keep it within the military. Modern warfare is as much propaganda and efforts to demoralize vs win over citizenry as it is military battles. The military needs to understand this. Either these NCOs did not understand this.. Or they did and knew exactly what they were doing and knew exactly what kind of effect they were going to have when going to the propaganda arm of the enemy, the Treason Times.





Whoever wrote that hatchet piece did not read the article those soldiers signed.  He leads off with speculation that "the military does not have a rule against undermining the war effort" which indicates two things:  1. he didn't read the article 2. his criticism is tempered by the better angels of his nature when repeats that the soldiers are "undermining the war effort." 

What a jerk.

He attributes this quote, I think, to the article: ""we can't win, we need to surrender"  That phrase is not in the letter.

In fact, the soldiers are quite conscientiously stating that Iraq is and should be winnable if the US gets out of the IRaqis' way, helping only from the margins, and let them settle their longstanding differences.  But what difference does that make to one who does not read the article?  His response is a mixture of sophistry, ad hominem attacks and fantasy.

I think the soldiers's letter articulates quite well the complexity of the troubles in Iraq.

On the other hand, we could just shout, "Treason" at these guys and hope they disappear while we STAY THE COURSE.

headhuntersix

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Re: Soldiers Say Positive Press Coverage Of The “Surge” Is Wrong
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2007, 12:28:33 PM »
Relax....this was taken from a cross section of articles....I feel much like the first part...what can u say but respectfully disagree. The stuff u had particular issues with was taken from Gen Lynch..pretty smart dude and mouth piece for LT GEN P. I should have done better attribution...
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Decker

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Re: Soldiers Say Positive Press Coverage Of The “Surge” Is Wrong
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2007, 12:56:26 PM »
Relax....this was taken from a cross section of articles....I feel much like the first part...what can u say but respectfully disagree. The stuff u had particular issues with was taken from Gen Lynch..pretty smart dude and mouth piece for LT GEN P. I should have done better attribution...
Sorry for my display.  I just got back from a several beer lunch.

I know you were excerpting someone else.  I wasn't referring to you as a jerk.  That would be rude and inaccurate.

headhuntersix

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Re: Soldiers Say Positive Press Coverage Of The “Surge” Is Wrong
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2007, 01:10:25 PM »
Complete bullshit....(beer) and I know u never stoop to name calling...its the only reason we can have any kinda debate.
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Decker

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Re: Soldiers Say Positive Press Coverage Of The “Surge” Is Wrong
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2007, 01:15:41 PM »
Complete bullshit....(beer) and I know u never stoop to name calling...its the only reason we can have any kinda debate.
Right again, it wasn't beer...it was Miller Lite.

headhuntersix

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Re: Soldiers Say Positive Press Coverage Of The “Surge” Is Wrong
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2007, 01:20:02 PM »
I went to the gym, had turkey meatballs and no carb no taste wheat pasta and i'm sippin water now. I hope u enjoyed that beer >:(.....after every sip i hope u thanked me for providing u the safety to indulge yourself.  :P

We used to have the 2 beer lunch in the army prior to 1990. I'm sure u can imagine how that went.
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