Author Topic: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything  (Read 4738 times)

OzmO

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2007, 06:50:11 PM »
What do you want Christianity and organized religion to look like in general? Curious to know your thoughts

Noting something you said to CJ:   If you make schools religion free, then you even the playing field for all faiths.  Now, i'm not one of the people who think you need to be anal about it, like taking "one nation under God" out of the pledge. 

The problem. is Church and state don't mix well.  It only leads to religious persecution at some point or an infringement on rights.

Personally, when i see all the money some of the churches have, like the /crystal /cathedral and the Vatican i want to puke when at the same time i see many people starving, without proper medical care, education and shelter.

Organized religion by it's very nature requires money and in turn requires followers and to that end, organized religion in many cases become as faith warlords manipulating it's followers telling them they are nothing without the church.....without salvation that they find in church.....  They keep them feeling guilty and ashamed about who they are, about being human, about wanting, craving, about sex etc....  All the things GOD gave us as people.....telling them the only way to heaven is through JC and they can tell if you have truly accepted JC into your hearts....and subtly tell you that you need to tithe and attend church or you are not a real christian.   What a BIG mind screw...IMO.   Eventually getting them to believe they are the "chosen" and they become indifferent as those around they believe are destined to suffer and say:  oh well, the little boy in Mongolia had his chance to come to JC and he didn't so shame on him, he had his chance...as upwards of 50 billion since the time of JC probably never heard of him and if they did why would they listen?  There environment and social foundation is based on the religion of the area, not some missionary.  This makes me sick that one would think GOD doesn't everyone of his creations to judge them justly but instead justify that person suffering with a "I feel so bad, but they had their chance".

Wait!  before you start telling me all the good churches do. I agree with you,  they do much good, only problem, it comes with strings attached.  churches aren't evil.  But it's isn't a church that brings a person to GOD.


Organized religion should not be allowed to touch or be connected to money in any way.  Organized Religion shouldn't be allowed to be broadcast publicly in any way.  Any money that might go to a church should instead go to help those less fortunate around the world.  Not give them hand outs, but give them opportunity through education and at least help them with basic needs like food and water.  People should meet at each other's houses in small groups and worship as they like and keep it to themselves.

Every church in the world should be torn down and made into a homeless shelter/hospital/school starting with Vatican city.

rant over.   ;D

Camel Jockey

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2007, 07:11:12 PM »
I'd add something but I'm stoned and thinking of porn.. I'm a damn sinner!

beatmaster

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2007, 07:31:43 PM »
... An Anti-theist is an atheist who is glad that God doesn't exist. If I were to label myself, I'd prefer anti-theist at this stage.


well, that will be me!!!

according creationist........ the earth is not older than 6000 years old or so!!! gimme just one proof and i'll change my mind!!! (anybody)

evolution makes more sense, prove me wrong, ............ actually, they can't!!!
are you delusional?

columbusdude82

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2007, 09:57:38 PM »
Ozmo, I am strongly opposed to the desecration of religious sites.

I will leave it to the faithful to destroy each others' churches, mosques, synagogues, and temples. They can always be relied upon to do that.

OzmO

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2007, 08:34:01 AM »
Ozmo, I am strongly opposed to the desecration of religious sites.

I will leave it to the faithful to destroy each others' churches, mosques, synagogues, and temples. They can always be relied upon to do that.

It was just a rant dude.   ;)

Hustle Man

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2007, 09:13:41 AM »
...People should meet at each other's houses in small groups and worship... I agree with this.
W

OzmO

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2007, 09:19:25 AM »


It would be more intimate, effective and personal.  And the faith wouldn't so easily fall prey to exploitation.

Hustle Man

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2007, 11:54:39 AM »
It would be more intimate, effective and personal.  And the faith wouldn't so easily fall prey to exploitation.

Yes I agree, I think the smaller groups would be closer to the biblical way of having fellowship Like in Acts 2. they would not be under pressure to keep money coming in to pay for the church and or a pastors hugantis salary.

W

columbusdude82

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2007, 05:24:05 PM »
BUMP for Hitch. Anyone been doing some reading this summer?

Straw Man

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2007, 05:28:29 PM »
The only way you can TRULY answer your own question is to investigate them all.  Would you agree that most people would not be willing to fully investigate?  Also, what sparked your interest in Hitchens' book?  Were you looking for a way to find credibility into what you already believe, or were you one who believed in Creationism and then found out after reading his book that you now see it as a crock? 

Did you apply the same standard of investigating all religions before becoming a Christian?


freespirit

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2007, 10:28:33 AM »
Without religion, would the world be suddenly a better place to live?

I think not.

columbusdude82

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2007, 10:30:37 AM »
Without religion, would the world be suddenly a better place to live?

I think not.

Have you read the book? If not, please don't take this thread off-topic.

If you have read the book, and have an opinion on Hitchens' arguments (for example, would the world be better off without religion), then please share them with us on here.

freespirit

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2007, 10:41:08 AM »
Have you read the book? If not, please don't take this thread off-topic.

If you have read the book, and have an opinion on Hitchens' arguments (for example, would the world be better off without religion), then please share them with us on here.

Why should I read that book?

Do you really think the world would suddenly turn into a better place to live if we got rid of all religions?

And if you really insist I should read that book, isn't there any short version which shows only the relevant 'arguments' about 'how religion poisons everything' because I really doubt it's that interesting. I don't like to waist to much time with irrelevant thoughts about religion.

columbusdude82

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2007, 10:44:54 AM »
I didn't say you should read the book. All I ask is that we keep this thread on topic and not clutter it with tangential discussions.

You are more than free to create a separate thread to list your arguments.

loco

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2007, 10:48:23 AM »
columbusdude82 is angry at his Roman Catholic upbringing, and he dedicates a great deal of his time now to reading anti-Christian propaganda.

columbusdude82,
I can't blame you.  I might be angry too if I had been brought up in such a strict environment in which one is not allowed to question anything.

But seriously, you now need to also question fundamentalist atheists, anti-Christian propaganda and scientists who will say anything to get recognition and funding.

columbusdude82

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2007, 11:25:47 AM »
You can take that up in the "Faith of my fathers" thread. :)

This thread is about Hitch.

OzmO

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2007, 12:12:36 PM »
Without religion, would the world be suddenly a better place to live?

I think not.

I have to agree that the world is a much better place with religion, however, religion is far from perfect and far from God in most cases as religion is a vessel for man's agenda of control.

It is religion and things like the Bible that prevent many people from being morally corrupt.  Most people lack the strength and wisdom to do what's right on their own unless the there is a threat of everlasting suffering.

Is a person truly good because they fear the consequences of their actions will lead them to eternal suffering?  I think not.  The second they lose faith their moral fabric unravels and they digress into the weak minded soul they always were.

A person is truly good when they are the way they are with or without religion.

Of course the Christians came up a great way to get "good" followers by setting up the idea that no matter how good you are you will never be perfect before God and will go to hell unless you accept Jesus becuase God only wants perfection........  A Monster soul screwing scam by Paul and Co. if you ask me.

loco

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2007, 12:50:53 PM »
Is a person truly good because they fear the consequences of their actions will lead them to eternal suffering?  I think not.  The second they lose faith their moral fabric unravels and they digress into the weak minded soul they always were.

A person is truly good when they are the way they are with or without religion.

Of course the Christians came up a great way to get "good" followers by setting up the idea that no matter how good you are you will never be perfect before God and will go to hell unless you accept Jesus becuase God only wants perfection........  A Monster soul screwing scam by Paul and Co. if you ask me.

Hey, OzmO! 

Just out of curiosity, where did you come up with this?  The best, most generous, most charitable, bravest of Christians I know do not fear hell at all.  And most of them were very bad people before they became Christians.  They were completely transformed.  Many of them were alcoholics or had other types of addictions, which they were able to give up only after they became Christians, after all else had failed and their condition was hopeless according to medicine and science.

A person is truly good when they are the way they are with or without religion.

I agree.  So?  Christians do not claim to be good, just forgiven.  And Christians do a lot of good.  Do you think that the hopeless, the needy and those suffering really care who their help comes from, whether it comes from a "good" person or from a Christian? 

OzmO

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2007, 02:49:51 PM »
Hey, OzmO! 

Just out of curiosity, where did you come up with this?  The best, most generous, most charitable, bravest of Christians I know do not fear hell at all.  And most of them were very bad people before they became Christians.  They were completely transformed.  Many of them were alcoholics or had other types of addictions, which they were able to give up only after they became Christians, after all else had failed and their condition was hopeless according to medicine and science.

I agree.  So?  Christians do not claim to be good, just forgiven.  And Christians do a lot of good.  Do you think that the hopeless, the needy and those suffering really care who their help comes from, whether it comes from a "good" person or from a Christian? 

I agree with most of what you say but give credit differently.  When a person is ready to change their life, God influences them regardless of whether or not they accept Christ.

Quote
Just out of curiosity, where did you come up with this?  The best, most generous, most charitable, bravest of Christians I know do not fear hell at all.  And most of them were very bad people before they became Christians.

Did i ever tell of my good friend who is pastor?  His wife divorced him and he is now womanizing and drinking.  What was keeping him from doing it before?  His belief in Christ.  What's different now?  He thinks God abandoned him and is angry with God.  So my point is clear here: 
Quote
The second they lose faith their moral fabric unravels and they digress into the weak minded soul they always were.

A person is truly good when they are the way they are with or without religion.

Don't get me wrong.  If that what it takes to keep them on the right path so be it.  But we shouldn't be under any illusions about it.

columbusdude82

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Re: god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2007, 03:28:15 PM »
Excerpt from the book: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18503995/site/newsweek/

Hopefully those of you who want to attack the book will at least read an excerpt first.

Hopefully, others will see what a genuinely awesome writer Hitchens is and decide to read the whole book.