Author Topic: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?  (Read 3762 times)

loco

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Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« on: November 30, 2007, 11:00:37 AM »
Nihilist:  Someone who rejects all theories of morality or religious belief.

Nihilism: This universe is a closed system.  Everything is determined.  Human beings don’t have real choices, we’re just cogs in a wheel, and the system is going and we’re part of it, and our choices don’t matter, and what we think doesn’t matter.  Nothing matters. We’re just cogs in the wheel, to quote a popular rock-and-roll group, “we’re just another brick in the wall.”  Nihilism goes on to say that humans are just complex machines; that’s what we are.  And we’re part of a bigger and more complex machine.  So the idea of true knowledge—it’s meaningless.  Ethics are impossible. There is no meaning in life.

       Now, as you can imagine, there are very few people in the world who can rest in that.  Nietzsche had suggested that there would need to be a race of what he called “super men” who would be able to endure this kind of view of the world until it could be transcended.  But there are very few super men and women around who can live with a view of life like this.  And so, the secular worldview makers, the philosophers, attempted to come up with their own answers, and one of the very popular answers that was given to Nihilism has been coined as Existentialism.

       Remember, we said that Deism replaced Theism as a worldview in the time of The Enlightenment because it was thought that Theism, on the one hand, was responsible for the internecine wars in Europe, and perhaps a more refined and rational view of God in the world could produce peace and tranquility in human life. 

       And then, along behind Deism came Naturalism that says, look, Deism predicates a first cause, a divine maker who made this world like a clock and set it running and then let it go to go and do whatever he was interested in doing, and he no longer interacts in this world.  The laws he set in motion are still in motion, so Naturalism says, look, we can take everything that Deism gives and remove the idea of this God who created things, this first cause, and the philosophy works just fine. 

       And then came a view which said, well, why do you have to assume that this world is rational, and can be made sense of? So Nihilism came along behind Naturalism.  In other words, Nihilism saw all of the presuppositions of Naturalism and said Naturalism’s assumption that we are in a rational world that can be understood and that meaning can be constructed out of is wrong. 
http://www.fpcjackson.org/resources/sermons/Worldviews%202004/3b_existent.htm

OzmO

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 11:27:27 AM »
Quote
Nihilism: This universe is a closed system.  Everything is determined.  Human beings don’t have real choices, we’re just cogs in a wheel, and the system is going and we’re part of it, and our choices don’t matter, and what we think doesn’t matter.  Nothing matters.

Interesting.  But i don't agree with it completely.  We may just be cogs but we have power in our own lives via the free will we have and the choices we make with that free will.   We can't change the universe but we can change our own universe and that in turn gives our lives meaning along with the relationships we create and the time we spend with those we love.

troponin

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 12:01:58 PM »
Interesting.  But i don't agree with it completely.  We may just be cogs but we have power in our own lives via the free will we have and the choices we make with that free will.   We can't change the universe but we can change our own universe and that in turn gives our lives meaning along with the relationships we create and the time we spend with those we love.

OzmO = not a nihilist
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Decker

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2007, 12:56:55 PM »
Nietzsche was no nihilist and I don't consider the Super Man or Over Man as a closet nihilist either. 

I think a discussion on the "last man" would be instructive.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Man

"He clings to tradition and morality to comfort himself because he is afraid to embrace the reality of change, and exhibiting above all else not a will to power, but a will to preservation."

Nihilism is not existentialism either.  That's absurd.


J. Ligon Duncan III really tells it like it ain't.

To Nietzsche, "nihilism" is a cancer on the soul much like Christianity is b/c it devalues and deemphasizes this world--neither concept is life affirming.  Both concepts are negative b/c they are decadent to life in the world as we know it.

loco

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2007, 01:08:07 PM »
Nihilism is not existentialism either.  That's absurd.

Who said that it was?

Existentialism  is "one of the very popular answers that was given to Nihilism"

loco

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 01:11:32 PM »
What of this?

Quote
Naturalism’s assumption that we are in a rational world that can be understood and that meaning can be constructed out of is wrong. 

loco

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 01:17:36 PM »
OzmO = not a nihilist

OzmO = a theist

loco

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2007, 01:28:10 PM »
Nietzsche was no nihilist and I don't consider the Super Man or Over Man as a closet nihilist either. 

I think a discussion on the "last man" would be instructive.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Man

"He clings to tradition and morality to comfort himself because he is afraid to embrace the reality of change, and exhibiting above all else not a will to power, but a will to preservation."

Nihilism is not existentialism either.  That's absurd.


J. Ligon Duncan III really tells it like it ain't.

To Nietzsche, "nihilism" is a cancer on the soul much like Christianity is b/c it devalues and deemphasizes this world--neither concept is life affirming.  Both concepts are negative b/c they are decadent to life in the world as we know it.


Decker, are you a deist, naturalist?  Does life have purpose to you other than to reproduce and die?  Do you believe in an afterlife?  Are there moral absolutes, or do we create our own morals as we go?  Do you not believe that Naturalism can lead to Nihilism?

Decker

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2007, 01:32:42 PM »
Who said that it was?


The author links nihilism to naturalism as a predecessor.  He makes a straw argument that some philosophers (the secular worldview makers) acknowledge the misiniterpretation of Nietzche's superman theory and had posited a more user friendly version of nihilism as existentialism.

Decker

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2007, 01:41:50 PM »
Decker, are you a deist, naturalist?  Does life have purpose to you other than to reproduce and die?  Do you believe in an afterlife?  Are there moral absolutes, or do we create our own morals as we go?  Do you not believe that Naturalism can lead to Nihilism?
I am me.  I am not someone else, someone else is someone else, I am me.

Belief in an afterlife puts emphasis on that non-existent datum.  It necessarily detracts from this concrete life.  That's why such belief is decadent.

Morality is created throughtout this pageant of life.  Some ideals: strength, courage, compassion stand the test of time and are worth something because they help us live better--more strongly.

Does life have a purpose?  Is the universe a teleological phenomenon?  I don't know and neither do you.

Life has purpose in so far as you humans can create purpose...to act towards an end.

Do you believe in an afterlife?  If so, why and where's your proof?

Is morality absolute?  Thou shalt not kill!  ...except if God orders the killing.

Decker

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2007, 01:53:52 PM »
Have a great weekend loco...I'm off to home.

loco

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2007, 02:22:34 PM »
Have a great weekend loco...I'm off to home.

Thanks Decker!  You have a great weekend too!

Deicide

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2007, 06:27:43 PM »
I am me.  I am not someone else, someone else is someone else, I am me.

Belief in an afterlife puts emphasis on that non-existent datum.  It necessarily detracts from this concrete life.  That's why such belief is decadent.

Morality is created throughtout this pageant of life.  Some ideals: strength, courage, compassion stand the test of time and are worth something because they help us live better--more strongly.

Does life have a purpose?  Is the universe a teleological phenomenon?  I don't know and neither do you.

Life has purpose in so far as you humans can create purpose...to act towards an end.

Do you believe in an afterlife?  If so, why and where's your proof?

Is morality absolute?  Thou shalt not kill!  ...except if God orders the killing.

Decker be the man!
I hate the State.

Necrosis

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2007, 07:50:44 PM »
I am me.  I am not someone else, someone else is someone else, I am me.

Belief in an afterlife puts emphasis on that non-existent datum.  It necessarily detracts from this concrete life.  That's why such belief is decadent.

Morality is created throughtout this pageant of life.  Some ideals: strength, courage, compassion stand the test of time and are worth something because they help us live better--more strongly.

Does life have a purpose?  Is the universe a teleological phenomenon?  I don't know and neither do you.

Life has purpose in so far as you humans can create purpose...to act towards an end.

Do you believe in an afterlife?  If so, why and where's your proof?

Is morality absolute?  Thou shalt not kill!  ...except if God orders the killing.

you sound like suckmymuscle :-*

"Life has purpose in so far as you humans can create purpose...to act towards an end."

an assumption based on the pre tense that god does not exist.

im just nitpicking

"Morality is created throughtout this pageant of life.  Some ideals: strength, courage, compassion stand the test of time and are worth something because they help us live better--more strongly"

i would argue that all emotions or qualities can be said to allow one to live more strongly through polarity, or enhancing the positives through the negatives. suffering usually results in stronger character.

Decker

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Re: Are you a Nihilist, or on your way to Nihilism?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2007, 01:41:41 PM »
you sound like suckmymuscle :-*

"Life has purpose in so far as you humans can create purpose...to act towards an end."

an assumption based on the pre tense that god does not exist.

im just nitpicking

"Morality is created throughtout this pageant of life.  Some ideals: strength, courage, compassion stand the test of time and are worth something because they help us live better--more strongly"

i would argue that all emotions or qualities can be said to allow one to live more strongly through polarity, or enhancing the positives through the negatives. suffering usually results in stronger character.
I agree with your statement about character and suffering.  It makes us who we are.  I am not a relativist though so I do not agree with your statement that all emotions or qualities allow one to live more strongly.