"BIG" JOHN MCCARTHY INTERVIEW
DECEMBER 19, 2007
Chris Howie of MMANews.com: This is Chris Howie with MMANews.com and today I am speaking with former UFC head referee and the newest addition to the Fight Network team, "Big" John McCarthy. How are you today John?
"Big" John McCarthy: I'm doing good. Just spending a few days here in Toronto.
MMANews.com: How are you liking the city?
"Big" John McCarthy: Well, they lied to me and said it never snowed here.
MMANews.com: [laughs] I'm Canadian myself and for it to not be snowing in Canada this time of year would be a shocker.
"Big" John McCarthy: [laughs] Yeah that's for sure. I was actually in Montreal for the TKO show and it was cold as hell. They told me it would be better in Toronto because it didn't snow much.
MMANews.com: I thought they have been getting blasted with snow all week.
"Big" John McCarthy: It appears so [laughs].
MMANews.com: So you've just retired from referreeing and have signed on to work with The Fight Network. What kind of work will you be doing with them?
"Big" John McCarthy: On-air broadcasting and analyst work. I'll be trying to help bring the company to a whole new level and make things even bigger and better than they are now.
MMANews.com: Is this a change you are looking forward to?
"Big" John McCarthy: I look forward to the opportunity of doing something different but I will always love being a referee. I didn't walk away because I didn't love it, it was because I couldn't do both. It was an opportunity for me to secure my future and not have to ever worry about living in a cardboard shack.
MMANews.com: Was it ever mentioned to you that you couldn't do both things or did you make the decision before anything was ever mentioned?
"Big" John McCarthy: I knew that there would be some conflict because it happened before with other refs. I talked to Keith Keizer in Nevada and he said that there would be some conflict so I just wanted them to know if there would be conflict I would step down and retire.
MMANews.com: So at this point in your career you felt this was a chance to tackle a new job?
"Big" John McCarthy: People say: "Why couldn't you have waited until this fight or that fight," but there never really would have been one moment for me to step down. I've always wanted to do the next fight but at this time I had an opportunity at hand or I could have said no to it and it may not have ever came around again. It was a choice that I made and it was a hard choice.
MMANews.com: Sometimes when opportunity knocks you have to let it on it...
"Big" John McCarthy: There you go.
MMANews.com: Is there any chance you would return to being a ref or is that on the back burner at this point?
"Big" John McCarthy: It's on the back burner at this point but never say never. Could I referee again? Sure.
MMANews.com: Are there talks to bring The Fight Network to the U.S.A.?
"Big" John McCarthy: Yes.
MMANews.com: I actually have the channel but I know of lot of American MMA fans that would love the chance to have the channel.
"Big" John McCarthy: I think when it comes to the States the channel is going to do very well. They are going to have new programming and such coming in and I think it will do great.
MMANews.com: Is there anything else you will be doing now that the conflict of interest is not there?
"Big" John McCarthy: Well, I have a gym with some fighters and now I can give more advice where in the past I tried to keep that seperation from giving advice to giving too much advice.
MMANews.com: What do you think about the rules in MMA? Are there any that you would change?
"Big" John McCarthy: As far as the rules and the ways things are I have always felt they should change but right now the sport is still a baby as far as athletic commissions are concerned. There are things that I think need to change in the sport and I think it is only a matter of time before things change. It will take time though before anything changes.
MMANews.com: Any rules in particular you would change?
"Big" John McCarthy: Opening up knees to the head on the ground is something that I feel they need to do because fighters use that position to stay protected because there are not a lot of attacks someone can do in certain positions so they tend to use that rule to their benefit. In the future I think that rule should change because it will make for a more complete fight and that will only help the sport.
MMANews.com: What have been some of your favorite fights to ref? This is actually probably a long list isn't it?
"Big" John McCarthy: [laughs] Yeah, it could be. If I look way back to the time when Royce Gracie was fighting I'd have to say Royce Gracie vs. Dan Severn was big. Maurice Smith against Mark Coleman was a big fight at the time because at the time people said grapplers would always win and Maurice came in being a striker and won. Tito Ortiz and Frank Shamrock was another good one because it was a change in the sport and it was two supreme atheletes going against each other. The Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture fights were also favorites of mine. The Quinton Jackson and Dan Henderson fight was a big one for me because it was the real first time that current UFC and PRIDE champions faced each other. Some of my other personal favorites include Clay Guida and Tyson Griffin, Spencer Fisher and Sam Stout, and the last fight I did which was Roger Huerta and Clay Guida.
"Big" John McCarthy speaks with MMANews.com ...
MMANews.com: That was a good fight [Guida/Huerta]. Had the expectations of being big before it even happened.
"Big" John McCarthy: That's because both guys just bring it. They have huge gas tanks and big time motors and I figured that would be a good one.
MMANews.com: What kind of things do you see happening in 2008 for MMA?
"Big" John McCarthy: I think 2008 will be a huge year for MMA. One of the biggest things people will be looking forward to is the huge fight between Randy Couture and Fedor Emelianenko. I think [Brock] Lesnar is going to be showing people he belongs here in the sport and he'll be opening peoples eyes up. We'll see what Pro Elite does and we'll see what HDNet Fights can do with the financial backing of Mark Cuban. I think it will be a huge year.
MMANews.com: Do you think the Randy/Fedor fight will happen in 2008?
"Big" John McCarthy: Being the way both guys are, Randy being the way he is and Fedor being how he is, they both want to fight each other and usually if you have two guys that want it to happen, that's half the battle right there. The other half is having the promotions working together and the way it is looking right now Randy isn't even going to have a promotion to work with. He'll be a free agent and he'll be able to do what he wants. I know the M-1 people want that fight to happen and they have Fedor, so unless he backs out and says he doesn't want to fight than I can't see why it wouldn't happen.
MMANews.com: Do you think the UFC would ever work with M-1 to make that fight happen sooner rather than later?
"Big" John McCarthy: I would love to see that happen but I don't think it's going to. It would be a smart move if you are Dana White and want to put on the best fights - to make that fight happen - because if he doesn't and he sits on it for too long he isn't going to have any part of it. It would be good for the sport to co-promote and make it happen.
MMANews.com: With the UFC being on the top I have a hard time seeing them come out of that shell and letting it happen.
"Big" John McCarthy: So do I and it's too bad. No matter what they can say whatever they want in the end but if Randy and Fedor fight it will be the biggest fight in MMA to date. Dana has the ability to make it happen and all he has to say is that they'll co-promote and that's it.
MMANews.com: A phone call away.
"Big" John McCarthy: That's it.
MMANews.com: Do you find at this point that MMA is branded UFC as opposed to MMA itself?
"Big" John McCarthy: Yeah I do. The UFC has kind of branded MMA the way Kleenex has branded tissue and Xerox has copy machines. People, when they think of the sport, automatically think the UFC. It doesn't matter where they see it but if they see two guys fighting MMA than at least 50 percent of the people think it's the UFC and with that you have to give props to the UFC because that's the way they want it. Do I think that's good for the sport? No, I don't. You have to have competition and other promotions. You have to have balance for the fighters and for the fans. I think one promotion is bad for the sport because it would limit the sport and the fighters' abilities.
MMANews.com: Do you think the system boxing has could possibly help MMA?
"Big" John McCarthy: Oh yeah. If you look at boxing, back in the day promoters such as Don King had his fighters and other promoters had their fighters and it wasn't until they realized they had to do co-promotions and give the fans the fights they want to see, that they could stick around. If you look now in boxing, there are good things and bad things, but one thing they have been doing is that they give the fans the fights they want. They do co-promotions and that's what works.
MMANews.com: So do you think the way of the future would be promotions instead of organizations?
"Big" John McCarthy: Well right now the sport of MMA is run by promotions, we have a UFC champ, an EliteXC champ, a Strikforce champ - but right now we don't have that one world champion and that needs to happen.
MMANews.com: Right now it seems that the UFC is considered the world title but a lot of good fighters don't fight in the UFC. Fedor doesn't and he is considered by most to be the number one heavyweight in the world right now.
"Big" John McCarthy: Yes, he is. You can argue it any way you want but the UFC has about 90 percent of the best fighters in the world. They don't have the Josh Barnett's or the Fedor's or the Jake Sheilds' in the welterweight divsion or Gilbert Melendez in the lightweight or even Takanori Gomi. People look at the UFC champion and think that guy is the best guy in the world but it doesn't really work out like that. There is a great fighter that could possibily be the UFC champion and people want to know if he could be and the only way to do that is if you get an organization or a sanctioning body that covers the sport and not the promotion. It doesn't matter what the promotion is that the fighter fights for. It matters what their ranking is in the sport and putting that fighter against the best fighter in the sport.
MMANews.com: Do you feel there are any promotions out there now that can compete with the UFC?
"Big" John McCarthy: There are none out there now that are competing. There are some that are existing around them but the UFC dominates the sport in terms of programming, putting on the biggest fights - they dominate. Are there companies that could compete? Yeah. M-1 Global has the right idea. They bought into that one big egg in Fedor and now they are sharing him out to get their money back. They'll make money loaning him out. That's smart buisness right there. Everyone seems to use the old idea that if I start up a promotion I'll sign the biggest names I can get and sign them to three or six fight contracts then put on the show and then they all fail. You have to be smart about who you sign. Sign certain names - then sign other guys that can eventually compete with the big guys to keep the general public's interest. I think HDNet backed by Mark Cuban has the idea because they aren't trying to be too big right now and as long as Cuban wants to stay in it he can because he has the money to do it. I think they have a real chance to survive.
MMANews.com: Let's go back to being inside the cage for a second here. What are some of the best things you ever heard inside the cage that may not have come over on TV?
"Big" John McCarthy: [laughs] Oh you hear all kinds of things all the time. There's grunts and growls and all kinds of things going on. God man this is a tough one. Back when Frank Shamrock fought Tito, Tito cut Frank and tried to stick his finger in the cut to make it worse and I heard Frank telling Tito that it was dirty. It was kind of funny to hear him say that considering they were pounding each other. Another good one was when Gilbert Aldana, who just passed away recently, was fighting Paul Buentello and Paul was beating him pretty badly but couldn't finish him. Gilbert was kind of wanting me to stop it but kept trying to fight back and then Paul looked at him and said "Just give up man" and Gilbert replied "You'll have to kill me first."
MMANews.com:. Is there anything you would like to say to the fans out there?
"Big" John McCarthy: Just keep supporting the sport and if you live in Canada make sure to get The Fight Network.
MMANews.com: Anything else you'd like to mention? Talk about your gym for a second if you don't mind.
"Big" John McCarthy: Yeah, for sure. If you want to check my gym out you can online at BJMUTA.com, thats the Big John McCarthy Ultimate Training Academy.
MMANews.com: Alright, John. I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me today. Good luck with the new job.
"Big" John McCarthy: Thanks Chris.
